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Old 12th November 2015, 02:24   #34221  |  Link
onyx76
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Best IQ settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
You think this combination is better than SuperRes? I haven't tried it with upscaled sources.
After several tests with upscaled sources I found that the IQ is better in my setup with this settings for all type of content:

Chroma: Jinc + AR
Image: Jinc + AR
Double Luma: 1.2x or greater - NNEDI3 64 Neurons
Quadruple Luma: 2.4x or greater - NNEDI3 64 Neurons
Downscaling: Catmull-Rom + AR + LL
Upscaling Refinement: Sharpen Edges (0.5) + Enhance Detail (0.5) + SuperRes (4 +LL)
Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/High
Image Enhancements: Off
Dithering: ED2 + Use Colored Noise

Render time: 27ms.
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Old 12th November 2015, 03:00   #34222  |  Link
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Madshi, will image enhancements be shown on the OSD? Or perhaps set an option to allow them to be shown?

Image thinning produces very similar results to awarpsharp but I still prefer the lines it makes (tends to bow things out a bit less) is it possible for the line thinning can be tweaked to produce perhaps similar results? Maybe even something the user could set?

Oh and if you got a chance to add line darkening to the toolbox that's be great.

Last edited by ryrynz; 12th November 2015 at 08:23.
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Old 12th November 2015, 10:47   #34223  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace960 View Post
When next file in a directory is played then the audio is played only. The video freezes at the previous file. I mean, I have several files in single directory. I use mpc-hc with option to play next file in the directory after playback of the actual file ends. When the next file should be automatically played then the audio starts correctly. However, the video freezes at the last frame of the previously ended file. The same happens when I skip to the next file manually (video freezes at the last played frame of the previous file). I found out that this started with madvr 0.89.13. It is present in all subsequent releases 0.89.14-16. The problem is not present in 0.89.12. I started having the problem while running mpc-hc 1.7.9.190. Now I use mpc-hc 1.7.9.202 and it makes no change. I also use reclock 1.8.8.5. All software is 32-bit, running on Windows 7 64-bit (running geforce drivers 358.91, problem was seen also on 358.50).
Does the media player still react to mouse and keyboard events? E.g. can you press the stop button and it reacts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogli View Post
With some old interlaced DVDs I now have some repeated frames (no drops) while using smooth motion since madVR recently introduced automatic switching to DXVA scaling for both chroma and luma when deinterlacing. Does this mean it's a NVIDIA driver bug or still a madVR one?
That's a cosmetical OSD bug. Will be fixed in the next build. You can safely ignore this, it has no meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Your wish is my command: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/150162

All pictures as a .zip file, using .13 with sxbr25+GL SR(St4/Sh2/R0.66), no other refinement was checked and I didn't try LL. Dithering was disabled.
The cleaner edges provide smoother motion, kinda dreaming of 4X SR now tbh and SuperSampling too while we're at it

New GPU's will be out soon and I'd happily use them for outrageous SS SR.
Ok, thanks. I can confirm your results. That's too bad, though, it means higher GPU consumption. And SuperRes is not exactly cheap, anyway...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcn View Post
I'm experiencing a strange v-sync issue with madVR.
This is totally outside of madVR's control. Most probably a GPU driver issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Madshi, will image enhancements be shown on the OSD? Or perhaps set an option to allow them to be shown?
Why? There are a million settings that I could show in the OSD. Why would the image enhancements be special to warrant being added to the OSD? I've added the scaling algos there because it's not always intuitive which decisions madVR makes there when using weird doubling settings etc. But for image enhancements there's nothing special or weird about what madVR is going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Image thinning produces very similar results to awarpsharp but I still prefer the lines it makes (tends to bow things out a bit less) is it possible for the line thinning can be tweaked to produce perhaps similar results? Maybe even something the user could set?
Can you post a screenshot set which shows this quality difference? Please post the original unsharpened screenshot, then the one using awapsharp and the one sharpened by madVR. Try to tune the settings to get identical results. Which might not be easy. Obviously with higher strength there's a higher feature distortion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Oh and if you got a chance to add line darkening to the toolbox that's be great.
I'm not sure about that. It sounds like a very specialist algorithm only useful to few people? All the other algos should be useful for everybody. "thin edges" might be an algo which was originally aimed at anime, but it's deadly useful for refining upscales, too, so it's really a very general purpose algo. While line darkening seems to be only useful for anime content to me? This might be an algo most suitable to be run in custom shaders?
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Old 12th November 2015, 11:35   #34224  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSeries View Post
In my case, on my TV I find 2.2 too bright overall, and 2.4 (even though it comes out of black very quickly, shadow areas are far too bright with both 2.2 and 2.4) a bit too dark overall and a bit too contrasty. Setting the TV to 2.2 and having MadVR apply a 2.35 gamma curve seems just about perfect.
One thing popped in my mind: do you have a "black level" setting on your TV? It usually has the values Low/High. Isn't it set to High for you? Then use Low. And set levels to PC Levels in madvr for your display (or custom levels, as huhn suggested).

Btw: what levels should be set in this case in Lav video decoder. PC or Untuoched? Or does it matter?
I'm using PC now, I have tried untouched but I haven't seen a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
why do a double gamma correction that shouldn't even fix issue like that?

and don't even assume you get the gamma you setup in a TV. without calibration and a meter you don't know what you get and you can assume you have more of an S curve gamma than anything else.

for a dark room you should aim at 2.4 anyway.
Yep, that was a good question I haven't known about the purpose of the custom levels option.
So, I tried it out (instead of changing gamma level to 2.15 in madvr): I had to set black to 1, and all is good. Thank you! The picture is slightly darker now.

Since we are here let me ask you 2 more things. (I don't have meters, I did "calibrate" my display using the mp4 avshd mp4 basic and some other files (for the colors with the help of the built in primary color filters of the TV, that means I haven't changed the settings for grayscale calibration)).

1. what would you suggest to change for watching tv shows/movies during the day? Previously I always raised the backlight of the TV (from 40 to 80-90!), but now I thought maybe I should set the gamma on the TV to 2.2 (with the help of an another IFS user profile, so I can modify the necessary other settings as well (brightness, contrast, etc...)) and just switching between the 2 user profiles.

2. what would you set the color temperature to on the TV (without having done a proper calibration )?
Possible values: cool/medium/warm. The result of them exactly like you can see in the middle of this article. http://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-tv-...oes-it-matter/
I used medium for couple of months now, but yesterday night I tried out warm and it wasn't so bad as was it before (thanks to the modifications that you suggested).
I know that lot of people suggest to go for warm for tv series/movies (probably not for sport events), but it was strange for me all the time.
And last: can it be that you change the color temperature according to day or night watching? (I think no, but I'm not sure.)

Thanks for your help!
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:18   #34225  |  Link
leeperry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I can confirm your results.
OK great, would there be room for further improvement there in your opinion? I guess another pass of SR on top wouldn't be possible without SuperSampling?

NNEDI3 is far more of a GPU hog than SR and I'm totally up for spending GPU load on SR coz again its effect on motion blur is astounding with Reclock, I currently have to zoom in native 1080p material one notch in order to trigger SR and 24p looks a hell lot smoother and focused

I can't bear watching non-SR footage anymore tbh, for instance motion on my HDTV tuner looks way too blurry to me now

Also eagerly awaiting having chroma SR updated but I guess that'll happen soon or later.


Last edited by leeperry; 12th November 2015 at 13:20.
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:30   #34226  |  Link
derpycat
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Hi I'm having a fairly new issue, though not sure when it started. For some reason 29.796fps videos have 16.68ms intervals instead of the 33.36ms you'd expect, and so I'm getting frame drops even with an average rendering time of 16.6ms. Is this a new behaviour?
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:42   #34227  |  Link
Murmeltier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Your wish is my command: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/150162

All pictures as a .zip file, using .13 with sxbr25+GL SR(St4/Sh2/R0.66), no other refinement was checked and I didn't try LL. Dithering was disabled.
The cleaner edges provide smoother motion, kinda dreaming of 4X SR now tbh and SuperSampling too while we're at it

New GPU's will be out soon and I'd happily use them for outrageous SS SR.
Now a direct comparison with NNEDI128 (luma), NNEDI64 (chroma) image doubling and activated "enhance detail" (value = ~0.4) + "crispen edges" (value = 1.1) upscaling refinements in conjunction with possible Catmull-Rom (AR+LL) downscaling and disabled SuperRes would be interesting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Ok, thanks. I can confirm your results. That's too bad, though, it means higher GPU consumption. And SuperRes is not exactly cheap, anyway...
To make it short. Isn't NNEDI128 image doubling without SuperRes still better than sxbr25 image doubling + an big portion of SuperRes sugar and almost equally hungry when it comes to performance?
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:44   #34228  |  Link
huhn
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is the file interlaced?
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:54   #34229  |  Link
derpycat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
is the file interlaced?
Ah, that was it. I had deinterlacing if in doubt, but the files weren't interlaced. Thanks
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Old 12th November 2015, 13:57   #34230  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murmeltier View Post
To make it short. Isn't NNEDI128 image doubling without SuperRes still better than sxbr25 image doubling + an big portion of SuperRes sugar and almost equally hungry when it comes to performance?
There'd have to be a lot of SuperRes passes to get close to NNEDI3 128 performance needs.
I suppose it's not realistic and instead I'd limit SuperRes passes/strength (and NNEDI3 neurons to 64) and maybe apply a bit of "sharpen edges".
sxbr 25 is extremely soft, I think it doesn't make sense at all to use it if you have a GPU that's fast enough for at least 32 neurons of NNEDI3. I suspect there are quite some unwanted side effects when you try to sharpen sxbr 25 with "infinite" SR passes to a decent level.

Btw: I really hope "sharpen edges" won't be more consuming than Adaptive Sharpen in the end.
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Old 12th November 2015, 14:19   #34231  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by Murmeltier View Post
Now a direct comparison with NNEDI128 (luma), NNEDI64 (chroma) image doubling and activated "enhance detail" (value = ~0.4) + "crispen edges" (value = 1.1) upscaling refinements in conjunction with possible Catmull-Rom (AR+LL) downscaling and disabled SuperRes would be interesting.

To make it short. Isn't NNEDI128 image doubling without SuperRes still better than sxbr25 image doubling + an big portion of SuperRes sugar and almost equally hungry when it comes to performance?
The thing is that SR is a lot smarter than NNEDI3 both FWIR and to my eyes: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...8&postcount=90

I also don't like how NNEDI3 makes my HD7850 fans whine due to the high load and I especially don't like the artificial looking "thin lines" color NNEDI3 adds to all edges, I'll give you that sxbr+SR might look a little thick but the new "thin edges" with a low value might help.

TBH I only bother posting screenshots comparisons when madshi demands them as I trust my eyes more than anything else and again to my eyes nothing can replace SR so it's a matter of feeding it a scaler that's not über-sharp to begin with. I've posted a .zip file with everything you need if you feel like tinkering
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Old 12th November 2015, 18:33   #34232  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ace960 View Post
When next file in a directory is played then the audio is played only. The video freezes at the previous file.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Does the media player still react to mouse and keyboard events? E.g. can you press the stop button and it reacts?
The media player reacts. When I press stop button then it is pressed and the sound of the actual file stops playing. The video remains frozen until I close mpc-hc.

I would also add information that the system have two displays. One is the primary PC monitor. The second one is TV where the movies are played fullscreen. I operate mpc-hc from the main PC monitor taskbar (for this kind of test).

I also updated mpc-hc from 1.7.9.202 to 1.7.9.213. It did not change the behavior.

Last edited by ace960; 12th November 2015 at 19:16.
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Old 12th November 2015, 18:46   #34233  |  Link
mcn
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
@mcn

try overlay mode may fix the issue.
Unfortunately that wasn't it.
Thanks though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This is totally outside of madVR's control. Most probably a GPU driver issue.
I see, thanks.
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Old 12th November 2015, 18:58   #34234  |  Link
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so you get tearing with overlay mode?
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Old 12th November 2015, 19:39   #34235  |  Link
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Unfortunately that wasn't it.
Thanks though.



I see, thanks.
Did you try playing with General Settings, checking/unchecking "use separate device"?
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Old 12th November 2015, 19:48   #34236  |  Link
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Crispen edges can look a little rough/aliased, which enhance detail brings out further. Nevertheless the two make my favorite combo with enhanced detail enabled under image enhancements. Thin edges seems to help with light haloing, looks better in upscaling refinement. In earlier versions I would normally prefer finesharp swhitching to lumasharpen if I saw artefacts. My sources are mostly live action. I always have Superres enabled in upscaling refinement.

Last edited by markanini; 12th November 2015 at 20:55.
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Old 12th November 2015, 23:38   #34237  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markanini View Post
Crispen edges can look a little rough/aliased, which enhance detail brings out further. Nevertheless the two make my favorite combo with enhanced detail enabled under image enhancements. Thin edges seems to help with light haloing, looks better in upscaling refinement. In earlier versions I would normally prefer finesharp swhitching to lumasharpen if I saw artefacts. My sources are mostly live action. I always have Superres enabled in upscaling refinement.
I find Sharpen Edges + Enhance Detail is a superior combination than Crispen Edges + Enhance Detail. Edge enhancement is less obvious.
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Old 13th November 2015, 01:18   #34238  |  Link
aufkrawall
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I don't like crispen edges either, with it alone image does look hardly shaper to my eyes and I don't find combinations with it very useful (rather combine SuperRes with a strength of 1 or 2 with sharpen edges and line thinning). It's also the only one of the new sharpeners that increases brightness.
(while sharpen edges on the other hand can decrease it a tiny bit).
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Old 13th November 2015, 07:43   #34239  |  Link
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Quote:
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Why? There are a million settings that I could show in the OSD. Why would the image enhancements be special to warrant being added to the OSD?
It's useful at a glance.. Could you at least state the profiles that are running?

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Can you post a screenshot set which shows this quality difference? Please post the original unsharpened screenshot, then the one using awapsharp and the one sharpened by madVR. Try to tune the settings to get identical results. Which might not be easy. Obviously with higher strength there's a higher feature distortion.
Yeah I know. I'm not sure I'd call it necessarily a quality difference though.. but I'll see what I can do.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I'm not sure about that. It sounds like a very specialist algorithm only useful to few people? All the other algos should be useful for everybody. "thin edges" might be an algo which was originally aimed at anime, but it's deadly useful for refining upscales, too, so it's really a very general purpose algo. While line darkening seems to be only useful for anime content to me? This might be an algo most suitable to be run in custom shaders?
Fair enough..
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Old 13th November 2015, 10:53   #34240  |  Link
mcn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
so you get tearing with overlay mode?
Yes, I occasionally get tearing on applications that don't use madVR, like Outlook.

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Originally Posted by har3inger View Post
Did you try playing with General Settings, checking/unchecking "use separate device"?
Thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I tried all the four possible combinations involving use a separate device for presentation and use a separate device for DXVA processing.
Even these didn't make a difference.
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