MadVR in use with LG OLED Thread

[Hammy]

Originally Posted by sepp1234

Ok, thank you!
So - how do I send a certain maxCLL value to my TV?
And... with this method I could also use a Sony OLED, right?

If you are setting "target peak nits" in madVR, then you are already doing it. That is the point of that setting, it lets madVR know what your display is capable of. At least that is my understanding.

Each TV will behave differently, but best-case-scenario with madVR is that it uses actual peak luminance as a base.

[chros]

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

I would not bother with 1D lut or 3D lut on a C8 for HDR. It's pointless.

I disagree with this

Originally Posted by Hammy

Managed to get a near-perfect SDR calibration, at least "good enough", and I can't notice any difference with the 3dlut uploaded to the TV compared with it in madVR. To be honest, I don't think I could A/B if a 3dlut was active or not on the C8 once SM white point was calibrated. I guess white point is 95% of the job on a decent set.

Then try this one out

Originally Posted by Hammy

I read and re-read the posts regarding the cyan tint in bt2020 many times. I have always felt something was off in HDR, but had no way of uploading to the TV until recently (HCFR+DisplayCAL being my only tools..).

So far, I think the best results for HDR is SM white point + unity 3dlut + synthetic profile in madVR (as here). This isn't ideal for non-PC inputs though.

Can anyone direct me on how to create a 1dlut for bt2020/HDR with the tools available to me? I have reset both luts in a spare HDR mode, but I'm not even sure what to be measuring. And to confirm, is there actually a problem with the way the C8 processes the bt2020 3dlut, or is the problem simply with the factory bt2020 3dlut?

Yes, that's a bt2020 3dlut processing issue with 2018/2019 (?) models that both affects factory and custom 3dluts as well.
You can read here how to create 1dlut here (for about from the middle of the topic).

Originally Posted by Hammy

Well I spent a few days on this. The only combination I could find that provides correction for the cyan tint is factory 1dlut+synthetic 3dlut in madVR. Any other combination (including a calibrated 2.2 gamma 1dlut uploaded to the TV) either results in loss of saturation or cyan tint in dark scenes. Even uploading the synthetic 3dlut to the TV produces the tint, while in madVR it does not.

That's correct

Originally Posted by Hammy

The nice thing is that you don't need to own a meter to try this. Just set up a HDR slot with Warm2 and remove the factory 3dlut with free aiopylgtv tool.

Here's an advanced version of that

Originally Posted by Hammy

I have linked two 3dluts which are visually the most similar to the factory 3dlut, while not producing the cyan tint. They were created in DisplayCal using the methods outlined by @chros and @j82k. What did you guys settle on in the end?

I went back to what @j82k suggested at the first place (I used PC mode back then where color gamut is forced in Wide mode, that's why I needed more saturation):
- absolute with white point scaling and (!) +5 saturation in madvr (for only HDR content, under Color tab)
- and setting color gamut to Auto in PC mode with my tool (I started to switch between PC and non-PC mode as well for only HDR10)

Originally Posted by Hammy

but I really like how things look at the moment as well.

Of course! It was basically unwatchable otherwise
It's shocking that no reviewers picked up this issue at all!

Originally Posted by Hammy

Next I might try measuring my primaries and inputting them into the profile used to create the luts. In theory it could work...

This is @j82k results measuring in SDR after DDC reset (he only changed RGB values not WP):




And here are mines:
I tried owered oled light in HDR10 to get 100 nits (oled light 8) resulted really low RGB Y values, so I matched those RGB Y values and it came up with around 164 nits (oled light 17):
- the result is pretty similar to what sdr 100 nits resulted in! so there's no big difference in the resulting image either (that means the gamut is reduced pretty much when we display full patches in hdr10 mode, as we saw above)
- still need extra saturation in madvr, not sure how much
- it helped skin colors a bit
- and now it removed the blue tint with Lore s02e01 sample that the extra saturation caused!

[chros]

@Hammy, I wonder whether this same issue exists on your C8 as well (conversation starts from the top of the page) : only with HDR10 and in non-PC mode. You need pitch black room to see it, and use the linked sample.

[quietvoid]

Originally Posted by chros

I disagree with this

I'd tend to agree that 1D LUT has issues, it causes flickering letterbox bars in HDR10 for me.

[SamuriHL]

Yes, I know we disagree on the 1d lut issue.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[chros]

Originally Posted by quietvoid

I'd tend to agree that 1D LUT has issues, it causes flickering letterbox bars in HDR10 for me.

Strange, not for me, neither in PC/nonPC modes.

[quietvoid]

Well maybe it is a B8/C8 difference

[Hammy]

Originally Posted by chros

Then try this one out

Wow, that's some effort you put in! I am not sure I want to put that much effort in, and I am somewhat old fashioned and think SDR shouldn't necessarily look like HDR

Originally Posted by chros

Yes, that's a bt2020 3dlut processing issue with 2018/2019 (?) models that both affects factory and custom 3dluts as well.
You can read here how to create 1dlut here (for about from the middle of the topic).

Thanks.
Between that thread and this, all you ever need to know about the B8/C8 is available!
I spent this last week mostly hand-editing .cal files for 1dluts and looking at Maleficent's face (!!), but sadly with any custom 1dlut in HDR it raises absolute black.
I tested this with just white and black specified in the 1dlut+unity 3dlut. So, for me, I have to keep the factory 1dlut for HDR.

Originally Posted by chros

Here's an advanced version of that

You forked it? Really cool!
Is there a way to call commands using madvr? For example, I was thinking it could be useful to switch out of PC mode automatically when madvr detects HDR/colourspace etc.
I looked into profiles but I couldn't see if it's possible to call external commands.

Originally Posted by chros

I went back to what @j82k suggested at the first place (I used PC mode back then where color gamut is forced in Wide mode, that's why I needed more saturation):
- absolute with white point scaling and (!) +5 saturation in madvr (for only HDR content, under Color tab)
- and setting color gamut to Auto in PC mode with my tool (I started to switch between PC and non-PC mode as well for only HDR10)

Thanks.
Not ideal solution but I suppose adding colour in madvr is better than through TV controls... :P

Originally Posted by chros

This is @j82k results measuring in SDR after DDC reset (he only changed RGB values not WP):

I have always thought j82k and I seem to have very, very similar panels.
Pretty bad near-black handling, one side slightly brighter than the other, and my measured primaries are also pretty similar to theirs. No panel swap for me, though.

Originally Posted by chros

@Hammy, I wonder whether this same issue exists on your C8 as well (conversation starts from the top of the page) : only with HDR10 and in non-PC mode. You need pitch black room to see it, and use the linked sample.

If I understood correctly, you wanted me to check the pattern outside of PC mode and whether the TruMotion affected near black using an external source?
If that was the case, it does not affect it on my set (neither on a ddc_reset input nor factory 1dlut+3dlut calibrated).
Brightness@50 resulted in black being black in both cases, with more gradual steps down in the calibrated input of course.

[SamuriHL]

Originally Posted by Hammy

...and think SDR shouldn't necessarily look like HDR

No kidding. LOL SDR is fairly well defined in how it should look IMO.

Originally Posted by Hammy

...but sadly with any custom 1dlut in HDR it raises absolute black.
I tested this with just white and black specified in the 1dlut+unity 3dlut. So, for me, I have to keep the factory 1dlut for HDR.

EXACTLY.

[chros]

Originally Posted by Hammy

If I understood correctly, you wanted me to check the pattern outside of PC mode and whether the TruMotion affected near black using an external source?
If that was the case, it does not affect it on my set (neither on a ddc_reset input nor factory 1dlut+3dlut calibrated).
Brightness@50 resulted in black being black in both cases, with more gradual steps down in the calibrated input of course.

Thanks, that's what I meant. That's strange because otherwise B8/C8 are almost identical how they behave.

Originally Posted by Hammy

I spent this last week mostly hand-editing .cal files for 1dluts and looking at Maleficent's face (!!), but sadly with any custom 1dlut in HDR it raises absolute black.
I tested this with just white and black specified in the 1dlut+unity 3dlut. So, for me, I have to keep the factory 1dlut for HDR.

Originally Posted by quietvoid

Well maybe it is a B8/C8 difference

Hmm, interesting, I can't think of anything else either

Originally Posted by Hammy

Wow, that's some effort you put in! I am not sure I want to put that much effort in, and I am somewhat old fashioned and think SDR shouldn't necessarily look like HDR

It's not much effort, once you know what you want to accomplish, it's just 1 more normal calibration session:
- set oled light to 243 nits in a preset of your choice (@D65)
- then run your usual 3dlut creation stuff
- once the 3dlut is ready then you can try it out in madvr (e.g. with profiles)

Originally Posted by Hammy

You forked it? Really cool!
Is there a way to call commands using madvr? ... I looked into profiles but I couldn't see if it's possible to call external commands.

Yes there is, if you highlight a profile and not a Profile Group (where your profile name is) then there're 2 textboxes for "command line to execute when this profile is" (de)activated.
But I don't use those (and I think the deactivation one has a bug, meaning it doesn't work).

Originally Posted by Hammy

For example, I was thinking it could be useful to switch out of PC mode automatically when madvr detects HDR/colourspace etc.

I use this tool to manually change whatever I want, along with this batch script (to launch the player), mpc-be.cmd:

@echo off
REM Script to run mpc-be and commands after it exited

REM set working directory to the current one
cd "%~dp0"
call lg_constants.cmd

mpc-be64.exe && ^
timeout 10 && ^
%mcmd% set_device_info HDMI_2 pc PC && ^
timeout 5 && ^
%mcmd% set_current_picture_mode eco && ^
timeout 5 && ^
%mcmd% power_off && ^
timeout 540 && ^
C:\Windows\psshutdown.exe -d -t 00

lg_constants.cmd:

@echo off
REM set LG constants

REM set main command
SET mcmd=D:\Progs\bscpylgtv\dist\bscpylgtvcommand\bscpylgtvcommand.exe -p "D:\Progs\bscpylgtv\.aiopylgtv.sqlite" 192.168.1.18

What it does is:
- when mpc-be is exited (using "After Pleyback -> Exit" (and not Standby))
- it switches back to PC mode
- switches to SDR Eco preset in PC mode (Oled light is set to 0 in this preset)
- turns off the TV
- puts PC into standby

So this way, whenever I turn the TV on I have it in the same state.

[sepp1234]

Since I haven´t seen this here:
The 2021 Panasonic OLEDs actually let you turn off tonemapping all together or you can manually set the clipping point in 10 nit increments.
Have a look at minute 4:12:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2O_y8LM5p4&t=285s

I´m not sure about the cheaper models, but in the JZ2000 and JZ1500 you can do this.
The JZ1500 has the same panels as the JZ2000 and has just a "normal" speaker system built-in (compared to the soundbar challenging system in the JZ2000).
And this panel seems to be quite a bit brighter than LGs G1 and also the Sony A90J with peak brightness (10%) at 877 nits, where the G1 reached 687 nits and the Sony 750 nits (Avforums measures).
Costing about 1500 Euros (JZ1500) here in Germany right now,
I´m very tempted to upgrade my LG B7 and be sure about the clipping point.

[Hammy]

@chros Great work! Now I can use your tool to automatically switch between PC and non-PC mode, essentially removing having to make a choice between 4:4:4 chroma for SDR or bandy mcbandy sky for HDR! Now to use some high quality chroma upscalers again

Kodi DSPlayer messes with its Python paths, so I had to set it up this way in the switchtoPC batch file:

SET PYTHONHOME=C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python38
SET PYTHONPATH=C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python38\DLLs;C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python38\Lib
bscpylgtvcommand 192.168.1.58 set_device_info HDMI_4 pc PC

Now I can define variables in madVR to choose when to switch to PC mode or "HDMI" mode.
As I understood it, deactivating profiles works when you switch profiles in playback and not when stopping playback like you would imagine.

@sepp1234 I think it's pretty standard now to allow the user to input their own HDR tonemapping curve matching the actual display luminance. It was introduced after the 8 series, unfortunately. I read from Ted that there were some C8 firmwares released to clients by LG which allowed custom tone curves, but would never be released to the public.

[sepp1234]

@sepp1234 I think it's pretty standard now to allow the user to input their own HDR tonemapping curve matching the actual display luminance. It was introduced after the 8 series, unfortunately. I read from Ted that there were some C8 firmwares released to clients by LG which allowed custom tone curves, but would never be released to the public.[/QUOTE]

@Hammy You are right. But in the Panasonics you can easily change this in the display menu. Turning it on/off and setting the clipping point to whatever you want it with a view clicks on the remote. And you can use individual clipping points for each HDMI port.

[SamuriHL]

Things I'm looking forward to if I do go ahead with my plan to upgrade to a 77" G2 later this year...

[chros]

Originally Posted by Hammy

@chros Great work! Now I can use your tool to automatically switch between PC and non-PC mode, essentially removing having to make a choice between 4:4:4 chroma for SDR or bandy mcbandy sky for HDR! Now to use some high quality chroma upscalers again

Nice! Which GPU do you have? You can take a look at the link in my signature for more setup links.

Originally Posted by Hammy

Now I can define variables in madVR to choose when to switch to PC mode or "HDMI" mode.
As I understood it, deactivating profiles works when you switch profiles in playback and not when stopping playback like you would imagine.

Not sure about that part, I never used the external script feature.

And lastly (since I don't use Kodi), I also use this android remote with mpc-be/hc.

Originally Posted by SamuriHL

Things I'm looking forward to if I do go ahead with my plan to upgrade to a 77" G2 later this year...

Let's see how they perform, C2 will be interesting for me, but there are already confusing articles.

[SamuriHL]

I agree. I want all the info before I drop that kind of coin on a new display. I've been holding off until things improved but I'm at the point now where the c8 needs to be replaced and moved. So I'm hoping the g2 hits it out of the park this year.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[chros]

Originally Posted by Hammy

@chros Great work! ...

And here's a temporary solution for HLG2HDR10, until madshi finally adds it into madvr.
Not sure whether it's perfect, it results in way oversaturated image using DTM, but strangly not with passthrough. Maybe another file tag is needed for the source colorspace?

[Kuler087]

Originally Posted by chros

And here's a temporary solution for HLG2HDR10, until madshi finally adds it into madvr.
Not sure whether it's perfect, it results in way oversaturated image using DTM, but strangly not with passthrough. Maybe another file tag is needed for the source colorspace?

Hi thank you and sorry for my ignorance but how do you use the code in madvr?
What tag? transfer=hdr and matrix=2020 ?

I would like to compare it with my method which involves re-encoding.
https://slow.pics/c/5nkGDpBZ ----> this is frame 4304 of The Green Planet S01E01 2160p HLG

[chros]

Originally Posted by Kuler087

... how do you use the code in madvr?
What tag? transfer=hdr and matrix=2020 ?

- as madshi suggested: rename to filename to include "hdr=on" in it
- - not sure about the matrix tags, we have to play with it
- save the code as a text file e.g. "convert_hlg_to_pq.hlsl" into "MPC-BE\Shaders" directory
- - then right-click during playback -> Shaders -> select it at Pre-Resize shader -> add and enable it

Also, check which profile is selected in madvr (if you have multiple ones), I think there's a bug with profile selection when file tags are used, so switch it manually if it's needed.

Originally Posted by Kuler087

I would like to compare it with my method which involves re-encoding.
https://slow.pics/c/5nkGDpBZ ----> this is frame 4304 of The Green Planet S01E01 2160p HLG

How do you reencode it?

Also, you can check mpcVR how it looks like.
Lemme know your findings ...

[Kuler087]

Originally Posted by chros

- as madshi suggested: rename to filename to include "hdr=on" in it
- - not sure about the matrix tags, we have to play with it
- save the code as a text file e.g. "convert_hlg_to_pq.hlsl" into "MPC-BE\Shaders" directory
- - then right-click during playback -> Shaders -> select it at Pre-Resize shader -> add and enable it

Also, check which profile is selected in madvr (if you have multiple ones), I think there's a bug with profile selection when file tags are used, so switch it manually if it's needed.

Thank you!

I don't have an HDR monitor at work to test passthrough but as you said, HDR to SDR clearly is not working: oversaturated (no color difference with the shader or not ? I might not be using it right?). I'll take a look mpcVR.

resolve / madvr / HLG / mpcVR


mpcVr looks too bright to my taste but if I try to match brightness in madvr (150nits static):



Resolve Dolby vision SDR tonemapping from HLG-HDR10:

Originally Posted by chros

How do you reencode it?

Also, you can check mpcVR how it looks like.
Lemme know your findings ...

With Davinci Resolve HLG in, HDR10 out. it's quite easy to do but time-consuming. But I can then generate DV.