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Old 20th September 2020, 19:21   #861  |  Link
Mosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowknight26 View Post
Instead, you have to click the very small edit button
That's incorrect. You can also click on the text itself. Nearly the whole row reacts to a single click by opening the dialog.

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Originally Posted by Snowknight26 View Post
What's more interesting is, if you double click on the label next to the edit button, the "Extended subtags" dropdown receives focus and opens
This is likely due to what I wrote above: the first click of your double-click opens the dialog, and therefore the second click actually ends up in the dialog, not the main window. Easy solution: don't double-click.

Please also note that you can change which parts of the dialog are selected by default in the preferences. If you prefer to use the keyboard, maybe switch the preferences over to having the free-form input selected by default. That way all you have to do is click on the panel, type "en" and press enter.

If you don't double-click, the focus will be on the "language" drop-down initially if the preferences are set to "components", otherwise on the free-form input — meaning you can just start typing right after the dialog's been opened.

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Instead, might I suggest keeping the language dropdown visible on the main multiplexer panel
A strong "nope" as that would make for a very confusing user interface if other parts than just the ISO 639 language code being set. And it would make the required validation quite a lot harder to implement (and in case of failures frustrating to users).

And just to preempt a potential followup question: no, I won't make this whole thing configurable via the preferences (so that you could opt back to the old drop-down box without all the other additional controls, without the dialog). That would mean TONS of more code to maintain, more combinations to test extensively, a lot more edge cases and an even more confusing UI for users in case of there being more than the ISO 639 language being set.

The old drop-down isn't coming back.

I'm definitely up to improving the support & UI! Your proposal isn't really an improvement, though, as it comes with a lot of drawbacks.
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Last edited by Mosu; 20th September 2020 at 19:25.
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Old 20th September 2020, 20:14   #862  |  Link
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Addon: I've tried hard to design a system that, while offering much more power, requires a minimum of additional clicks. I'm very much aware users don't like having to click more. From a design perspective I had to balance the following requirements:
  1. The user should be able to use the full feature-set that BCP 47 language tags offer.
  2. For users not familiar with BCP 47: the language tag should be easy to construct with a lot of help from the program.
  3. Users intimately familiar with BCP 47 should be able to quickly input a valid BCP 47 language tag without having to hunt through multiple combo boxes.
  4. The displayed language tag should be human-readable (e.g. "English" instead of "en").
  5. The displayed language tag should still offer the full information about all of its components.
  6. The new controls should ideally fit into the same space the existing controls were occupying, if at all possible without making the dialog any wider.
  7. After swapping out the old for the new controls the interface should not be much more confusing than it was before.
  8. The number of mouse clicks required for the most-often executed operation (changing solely the language code) should ideally not increase, or if it has to increase, as little a possible.
  9. The new controls should be usable solely with the keyboard.
  10. The user interface should not accept invalid language tags.

Of course several of those requirements conflict with each other.

Why am I writing this? To underline that I _have_ taken those concerns into consideration. I'm not just willfully making users' lives harder.
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Last edited by Mosu; 20th September 2020 at 20:32.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 03:06   #863  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
This is likely due to what I wrote above: the first click of your double-click opens the dialog, and therefore the second click actually ends up in the dialog, not the main window. Easy solution: don't double-click.
You're right. It just so happened that when clicking once, the Edit language window appeared such that the 'Extended subtags' dropdown was exactly where the mouse cursor was, so naturally a 2nd click would focus on it instead.

That was simply a false assumption on my part.

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And just to preempt a potential followup question
Well surprise surprise, I didn't have follow-up questions. I suppose my only complaint is that from a UI/UX perspective, it's not normal for a text label to be an actionable element (meaning clicking it does something).

Minor bug though:
  • Open MKVToolNix GUI
  • Click Add source files
  • Select a file with chapters
  • Click on the chapters in the "Tracks, chapters and tags" panel
  • Click "<Do not change>" next to Language in the Properties panel
  • Change any parts of the language
  • The new language option is reflected in the Properties panel
  • Click on a different track in the "Tracks, chapters and tags" panel
  • Click on the chapters in the "Tracks, chapters and tags" panel
  • Language settings are not preserved (naturally, since you shouldn't be able to change the language for chapters?)

Last edited by Snowknight26; 22nd September 2020 at 03:16.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 08:55   #864  |  Link
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Quote:
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I suppose my only complaint is that from a UI/UX perspective, it's not normal for a text label to be an actionable element (meaning clicking it does something).
That's true, of course. That's why it isn't the only way to open the dialog & why the edit button is present, consistent with edit buttons in several other locations in MKVToolNix GUI. That the text label accepts a click, too, is purely for convenience & ease of use.

Maybe I'll change the visuals somehow to signal interactivity (similar to URIs are underlined & displayed in a different color).

Quote:
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  • Click on the chapters in the "Tracks, chapters and tags" panel
  • Click "<Do not change>" next to Language in the Properties panel
Ooooh, right. That shouldn't happen. From mkvmerge's perspective you cannot change the language of chapters & tags; therefore the GUI shouldn't allow you to change the language for those entries. It didn't before v50, and the edit button in v50 is disabled correctly, but the click on the text is still accepted. I'll fix that. Thanks.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 09:48   #865  |  Link
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With regard to adding chapters...

Is there any particular reason why the supported 'chapter file' types can't be dragged and dropped into the GUI's main window, instead of always having to visit the 'Output tab'?
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Old 22nd September 2020, 16:52   #866  |  Link
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Is there any particular reason why the supported 'chapter file' types can't be dragged and dropped into the GUI's main window, instead of always having to visit the 'Output tab'?
Huh? You _can_ drag & drop chapter files onto the "input" tab. The GUI will recognize dropped chapter files & automatically insert their file name in the corresponding control in the output tab. It'll even show a helpful popup message explaining what it just did & why it did it.

If you don't see that popup, you've opted not to see it again earlier (there's a checkbox in the popup for that).

The reason chapter files aren't treated the same way other source files is that mkvmerge simply doesn't handle them the same way. I might change that someday, but it'd be quite a bit of work for, honestly, not even that much of a increase in convenience, never mind that it wouldn't actually enhance or extend existing features.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 18:00   #867  |  Link
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If you don't see that popup, you've opted not to see it again earlier (there's a checkbox in the popup for that)...
How odd then!!!

A few days ago I used gMKVExtract GUI v2.5.2.0 to demux some chapters as an 'chapters.ogm.txt' file. And when I tried dropping them into MKVToolNix GUI I received this message: -



...And the chapters did not appear

Edit: I think I know what's happened now. The 'chapters.ogm.txt' file has been loaded and it appears under the 'Output' (Chapters) tab. But they don't appear within this box as being loaded: -

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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 22nd September 2020 at 18:24.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 18:27   #868  |  Link
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Edit: I think I know what's happened now. The 'chapters.ogm.txt' file has been loaded and it appears under the 'Output' (Chapters) tab. But they don't appear within this box as being loaded:
Chapters appear in that box only if they're part of one of the source files (e.g. inside Matroska or MP4 files or MPLS playlists) in the upper box. As I said earlier, pure chapter files are not regular source files, though, and don't appear there.

I know, somewhat confusing, due to design decisions in the early days, not trivial to change, might be changed one day, but don't hold your breath
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Old 22nd September 2020, 18:40   #869  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Mosu View Post
I know, somewhat confusing, due to design decisions in the early days, not trivial to change, might be changed one day, but don't hold your breath
Yeah, it is somewhat confusing. But at least I now know that they are in there


EDIT: It's rather incredible that you first released your application way back on the 30 April 2003 and continue to regularly issues updates...
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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 22nd September 2020 at 18:46.
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Old 25th September 2020, 11:44   #870  |  Link
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Hi Mosu

I want mux an mkv from a BD, and when I set the "--disable-language-ietf" flag there is no language for the video track.
Audio and subtitle tracks have the "normal" 3-letter-language code.
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Old 27th September 2020, 16:41   #871  |  Link
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there is no language for the video track.
Where exactly do you mean?
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Old 27th September 2020, 19:53   #872  |  Link
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Quote:
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there is no language for the video track.
Out of interest... What's the purpose of assigning a language to a video track?
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Old 27th September 2020, 21:23   #873  |  Link
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Out of interest... What's the purpose of assigning a language to a video track?
The problem is with the Matroska specs in this particular case: the old Language element is both mandatory and has a default value of "eng". The effect is that there's no way NOT to assign a language to a track: if no language element is found, a reader must use the default value "eng" instead. Yes, that's one of the two design decisions we would definitely change if we redesigned the container.

From a semantic point of view it isn't that much of a problem as there's the code "zxx" = "No linguistic content; Not applicable" that can be used to signal that the video track does indeed not have any linguistic content.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:41   #874  |  Link
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What about "und" (undetermined)? That seems to work just fine when assigned to a video track, and it doesn't show as anything in MediaInfo.
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Old 28th September 2020, 08:04   #875  |  Link
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Semantically speaking "und" means that there is linguistic content, you just don't know which language it actually is. How players treat "undetermined" is not up to Matroska/MKVToolNix, and I bet it isn't uniform across players either.
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:00   #876  |  Link
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Where exactly do you mean?
I forgot that no language element is written if the language is "eng".
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Old 28th September 2020, 12:39   #877  |  Link
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Out of interest... What's the purpose of assigning a language to a video track?
This is maybe not important, but a video from an USA production looks different to Chinese production.

I have some movies where the original is produced in Sweden and Hollywood had make a remake of this movie.
There are a lot of scenes where signs in Sweden language -> newspaper articles or shop advertisement and others.
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Old 28th September 2020, 18:37   #878  |  Link
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This is maybe not important, but a video from an USA production looks different to Chinese production.
Hmmm...

But surely such sources would not arrive to you muxed within the Matroska container. They would be identified in a different way!

Do transport container and mp4 muxers offer a video language option?
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Old 28th September 2020, 20:21   #879  |  Link
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Do transport container and mp4 muxers offer a video language option?
MP4 does provide a language for all tracks in the "mdhd" atom, no matter the track's type.

MPEG transport streams do not have a language field in general. Certain track/codec types do have a language coded somewhere in their codec-specific initialization data, e.g. teletext or the generic subtitle PMT descriptors. However, MPEG transport streams as used on Blu-rays are always accompanied by clip information files ("CLIPINF/*.clpi"). Those files do contain a language field for all tracks, no matter their type, but for video tracks it's often empty.
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Old 29th September 2020, 00:20   #880  |  Link
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Out of interest... What's the purpose of assigning a language to a video track?
I use the language tag of the video track to indicate the language of the opening credits, end credits and hardcoded subtitles.

Another possibility: Think of Star Wars, there the language tag could be used to indicate the language of the intro.
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