LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders - Page 1242

Msarc · 24th June 2022, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunspark

Different things. If the renderer has support for stuff like dithering, levels, etc. those are passed through and it is the renderer on the other end that sets the settings.

Those settings won't change anything with those two renderers. If you need to change dithering, levels, etc. in MadVR or MPCVR you have to do it on that side.

Got it, thank you.

tormento · 18th July 2022, 13:56

I have tried to decode a HEVC 4:4:4 file and, according to this, my card (1660 Super) should support it.

Anyway, trying to decode with Lav Filters, both in MPC-BE, as addin, and in MPC-HC, as integrated filter, makes them use avcodec software decoding.

The media file has this video properties:

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Format Range@L5@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 1 h 49 min
Bit rate : 10.3 Mb/s
Width : 2 592 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.153
Stream size : 7.84 GiB (79%)
Writing library : x265 2.9+8-27d8424c799d:[Windows][MSVC 1900][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings : cpuid=1111039 / frame-threads=4 / numa-pools=16 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=3 / input-res=2592x1080 / interlace=0 / total-frames=0 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=4 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / open-gop / min-keyint=23 / keyint=250 / gop-lookahead=0 / bframes=4 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=25 / lookahead-slices=4 / scenecut=40 / radl=0 / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / rect / no-amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=1 / tu-intra-depth=1 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=0:0 / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=4 / no-early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / no-b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=1.00 / no-rd-refine / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=6 / crqpoffs=6 / rc=crf / crf=14.5 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / vbv-maxrate=32000 / vbv-bufsize=15360 / vbv-init=0.9 / crf-max=0.0 / crf-min=0.0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=1 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree / zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=31 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=0 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=1 / transfer=2 / colormatrix=2 / chromaloc=0 / display-window=0 / max-cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / no-hdr / no-hdr-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / no-idr-recovery-sei / analysis-reuse-level=5 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-mv-type=0 / copy-pic=1 / max-ausize-factor=1.0 / no-dynamic-refine / no-single-sei
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709

Am I doing something wrong?

Aleksoid1978 · 18th July 2022, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tormento

I have tried to decode a HEVC 4:4:4 file and, according to this, my card (1660 Super) should support it.

Anyway, trying to decode with Lav Filters, both in MPC-BE, as addin, and in MPC-HC, as integrated filter, makes them use avcodec software decoding.

It's support only in NVDEC, you can try it in internal MPC-BE video decoder.

tormento · 18th July 2022, 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

It's support only in NVDEC, you can try it in internal MPC-BE video decoder.

Would be hard to add it in LAV?

el Filou · 18th July 2022, 17:29

nevcairiel said a while back he had plans to update the internal NVIDIA decoder to use the newer version of their API, but no ETA obviously, and it wasn't clear if this would include support for formats that are decoded only through it and not through DXVA.
(Edit: Intel also supports formats that can be decoded only trough QuickSync and not through DXVA)

huhn · 18th July 2022, 17:29

there is a * to it but the information for that is currently missing.
the information should show that this is for lossless only.
so it is not useful for general usage.
and it should not work with your file.

tormento · 19th July 2022, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by huhn

the information should show that this is for lossless only

Isn't that just for the encoding part only?

huhn · 19th July 2022, 10:36

the encoding page is crystal clear.
and the encoding page doesn't use a *.

i could be utterly wrong like always.

nevcairiel · 19th July 2022, 10:55

NVIDIA supports encoding 4:4:4 in normal as well as lossless, but decoding only 4:4:4 lossless.

I don't plan to support this in the current version of CUVID.

tormento · 19th July 2022, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

NVIDIA supports encoding 4:4:4 in normal as well as lossless, but decoding only 4:4:4 lossless.

Mmmm... that is not lossless.

huhn · 19th July 2022, 17:33

good. the information was still present back in the days.
they may just forget to remove the *.

nice very niche upgrade.

nevcairiel · 19th July 2022, 17:34

You can send it all sorts of bitstreams, and sometimes it might even work, but there is no guarantee that every 4:4:4 bitstream will work, hence we call it not supported.
HW decoders don't usually do a lot of checks. It relies on the software using them to do those checks.

Its not the first time this concept comes up. "It works for this one video I have" is not proof that it works for _every_ video using that encoding. Thats the tricky part about decoders, you have to support every single codec feature. An encoder has it easier - it gets to pick which features it implements.

Unless support is clearly documented, and with which hardware supports what as well, its just not worth the hassle for edge cases. Guaranteed correct decoding is more important then maybe faster decoding.

tormento · 19th July 2022, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

You can send it all sorts of bitstreams, and sometimes it might even work, but there is no guarantee that every 4:4:4 bitstream will work, hence we call it not supported.

Perhaps long time ago. Nowadays it's supported and working.

https://docs.nvidia.com/video-techno...pi-prog-guide/

nevcairiel · 19th July 2022, 22:29

That link doesn't mention 4:4:4 HEVC at all. In fact it only lists main/main10/main12 support for HEVC in the feature matrix, which is limited to 4:2:0. So not sure what you were trying to show there.
If anything the support for HEVC 4:4:4 is very badly documented, and the only documentation I actually know of mention it special cases it to be lossless only. Hence I likely wouldn't care to offer it, even after the CUVID/NVDEC support was re-written. Badly documented niche features is how you get annoying bugs.

Besides all that, high-bandwidth copy-back decoding is also quickly bottlenecking on memory bandwidth, and finding a renderer willing to add support for native delivery of 4:4:4 formats is quite likely going to be rather challenging.

jmone · 20th July 2022, 00:12

I for one would appreciate HEVC 10-BIT 4:4:4 hw decoding via NVDEC but I'm also happy to admit that it is a niche case that would be a nice to have rather that a must.

FWIW - I capture in AVC 4:2:2 10-Bit UHD Log (Sony FX6) and typically render out (Davinci Resolve) in HEVC UHD HDR 4:2:0 and it normally looks great. I have had some issues with poor chroma upscaling on high contrast edges with this format with some rendering combinations using nvidia HW accelerated rendering (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/ind...topic=120102.0).

My edge case is that I'd prefer to just render out a 4:4:4 version that I could use both for playback (but would need HW accelerated decoding) and keep as the "master" (as the 4:2:0 version is throwing away chroma detail from the original footage). Davinci Resolve supports both decoding and encoding of HW Acceleration of HEVC 4:4:4 using NVDEC, and for those interested here is a zip file (400MB) of a short sunrise clip rendered out in both UHD HDR 4:4:4 and 4:2:0. https://behome.dyndns.info/index.php/s/7BgTfkYSmYrrzsS

Aleksoid1978 · 20th July 2022, 05:40

NVDEC normal support HEVC 4:4:4 8/10/12bit.
If need - MPC VR support "needed" 4:4:4 format for "direct" copy from decoder.

tormento · 20th July 2022, 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

That link doesn't mention 4:4:4 HEVC

Have yourself a "4:4:4" CTRL-F search.

tormento · 20th July 2022, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978

NVDEC normal support HEVC 4:4:4 8/10/12bit.

I was planning to use HEVC lossless 4:4:4 as intermediate file for the most complex encodes, where my PC would struggle to do them in a single passage.

A fast preview player would be nice.

Anyway, with a lot of probability DGDecNV is about having 4:4:4 support. I will play the avs file.

nevcairiel · 20th July 2022, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tormento

Have yourself a "4:4:4" CTRL-F search.

I don't think you really get it at all.

Its not about there being random mentions of 4:4:4 (without context, without further information which profiles are supported, for which codecs, etc), but the absolute lack of clear information what is actually supported. The feature matrix does not mention 4:4:4 at all, in fact it lists a bunch of profiles that are all 4:2:0. Some other feature pages list 4:4:4, some qualify that to lossless, some don't elaborate at all. Its a messy situation, and one I do not want anything to do with.

YGPMOLE · 24th July 2022, 12:04

Hi!

I got 2 (very stupid?) questions: even when bitstreaming a multichannel track to an AVR receiver connected by HDMI, the OUT LAV Audio Decoder Pin Info shows a S/Pdif stereo connection; it's a normal behavior?

Second question: some of my Matroska files are opened by the internal MPC Matroska Source and Audio Decoder of MPC-BE instead of LAV Splitter Source and Audio Decoder (with what seems to be an audio filter for each language, instead of LAV Splitter Source + LAV Video Decoder + LAV Audio Decoder as usual): the only difference I noted is that this files are marked as AVC High Profile Level 4.1; this is the filter chain:

MPC-BE 1.6.3.0
Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- Audio Switcher
- LAV Video Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC Matroska Source

18th July 2022, 13:56	#24822 \| Link
tormento Acid fr0g Join Date: May 2002 Location: Italy Posts: 2,582	I have tried to decode a HEVC 4:4:4 file and, according to this, my card (1660 Super) should support it. Anyway, trying to decode with Lav Filters, both in MPC-BE, as addin, and in MPC-HC, as integrated filter, makes them use avcodec software decoding. The media file has this video properties: Video ID : 1 Format : HEVC Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding Format profile : Format Range@L5@High Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC Duration : 1 h 49 min Bit rate : 10.3 Mb/s Width : 2 592 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4 Bit depth : 10 bits Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.153 Stream size : 7.84 GiB (79%) Writing library : x265 2.9+8-27d8424c799d:[Windows][MSVC 1900][64 bit] 10bit Encoding settings : cpuid=1111039 / frame-threads=4 / numa-pools=16 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=3 / input-res=2592x1080 / interlace=0 / total-frames=0 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=4 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / open-gop / min-keyint=23 / keyint=250 / gop-lookahead=0 / bframes=4 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=25 / lookahead-slices=4 / scenecut=40 / radl=0 / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / rect / no-amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=1 / tu-intra-depth=1 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=0:0 / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=4 / no-early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / no-b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=1.00 / no-rd-refine / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=6 / crqpoffs=6 / rc=crf / crf=14.5 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / vbv-maxrate=32000 / vbv-bufsize=15360 / vbv-init=0.9 / crf-max=0.0 / crf-min=0.0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=1 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree / zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=31 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=0 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=1 / transfer=2 / colormatrix=2 / chromaloc=0 / display-window=0 / max-cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / no-hdr / no-hdr-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / no-idr-recovery-sei / analysis-reuse-level=5 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-mv-type=0 / copy-pic=1 / max-ausize-factor=1.0 / no-dynamic-refine / no-single-sei Default : Yes Forced : No Color range : Limited Color primaries : BT.709 Am I doing something wrong? __________________ @turment on Telegram

18th July 2022, 17:29	#24825 \| Link
el Filou Registered User Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 896	nevcairiel said a while back he had plans to update the internal NVIDIA decoder to use the newer version of their API, but no ETA obviously, and it wasn't clear if this would include support for formats that are decoded only through it and not through DXVA. (Edit: Intel also supports formats that can be decoded only trough QuickSync and not through DXVA) __________________ HTPC: Windows 10 22H2, MediaPortal 1, LAV Filters/ReClock/madVR. DVB-C TV, Panasonic GT60, Denon 2310, Core 2 Duo E7400 oc'd, GeForce 1050 Ti 536.40

19th July 2022, 10:55	#24829 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	NVIDIA supports encoding 4:4:4 in normal as well as lossless, but decoding only 4:4:4 lossless. I don't plan to support this in the current version of CUVID. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

19th July 2022, 17:34	#24832 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	You can send it all sorts of bitstreams, and sometimes it might even work, but there is no guarantee that every 4:4:4 bitstream will work, hence we call it not supported. HW decoders don't usually do a lot of checks. It relies on the software using them to do those checks. Its not the first time this concept comes up. "It works for this one video I have" is not proof that it works for _every_ video using that encoding. Thats the tricky part about decoders, you have to support every single codec feature. An encoder has it easier - it gets to pick which features it implements. Unless support is clearly documented, and with which hardware supports what as well, its just not worth the hassle for edge cases. Guaranteed correct decoding is more important then maybe faster decoding. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th July 2022 at 17:43.

19th July 2022, 22:29	#24834 \| Link
nevcairiel Registered Developer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hamburg/Germany Posts: 10,348	That link doesn't mention 4:4:4 HEVC at all. In fact it only lists main/main10/main12 support for HEVC in the feature matrix, which is limited to 4:2:0. So not sure what you were trying to show there. If anything the support for HEVC 4:4:4 is very badly documented, and the only documentation I actually know of mention it special cases it to be lossless only. Hence I likely wouldn't care to offer it, even after the CUVID/NVDEC support was re-written. Badly documented niche features is how you get annoying bugs. Besides all that, high-bandwidth copy-back decoding is also quickly bottlenecking on memory bandwidth, and finding a renderer willing to add support for native delivery of 4:4:4 formats is quite likely going to be rather challenging. __________________ LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th July 2022 at 22:32.

18th July 2022, 17:29	#24826 \| Link
huhn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 7,926	there is a * to it but the information for that is currently missing. the information should show that this is for lossless only. so it is not useful for general usage. and it should not work with your file.

19th July 2022, 10:36	#24828 \| Link
huhn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 7,926	the encoding page is crystal clear. and the encoding page doesn't use a *. i could be utterly wrong like always.

19th July 2022, 17:33	#24831 \| Link
huhn Registered User Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 7,926	good. the information was still present back in the days. they may just forget to remove the *. nice very niche upgrade.

20th July 2022, 00:12	#24835 \| Link
jmone Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 652	I for one would appreciate HEVC 10-BIT 4:4:4 hw decoding via NVDEC but I'm also happy to admit that it is a niche case that would be a nice to have rather that a must. FWIW - I capture in AVC 4:2:2 10-Bit UHD Log (Sony FX6) and typically render out (Davinci Resolve) in HEVC UHD HDR 4:2:0 and it normally looks great. I have had some issues with poor chroma upscaling on high contrast edges with this format with some rendering combinations using nvidia HW accelerated rendering (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/ind...topic=120102.0). My edge case is that I'd prefer to just render out a 4:4:4 version that I could use both for playback (but would need HW accelerated decoding) and keep as the "master" (as the 4:2:0 version is throwing away chroma detail from the original footage). Davinci Resolve supports both decoding and encoding of HW Acceleration of HEVC 4:4:4 using NVDEC, and for those interested here is a zip file (400MB) of a short sunrise clip rendered out in both UHD HDR 4:4:4 and 4:2:0. https://behome.dyndns.info/index.php/s/7BgTfkYSmYrrzsS

20th July 2022, 05:40	#24836 \| Link
Aleksoid1978 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Russia, Vladivostok Posts: 2,787	NVDEC normal support HEVC 4:4:4 8/10/12bit. If need - MPC VR support "needed" 4:4:4 format for "direct" copy from decoder. __________________ AMD Ryzen 5 3600 /GIGABYTE B450 Gaming X /Patriot 32Gb@3200 /Kingston 500Gb M.2 /RTX 4060 /Samsung U28R550UQI /OLED Philips 55OLED707 /Yamaha RX-V471 + NS-555 + NS-C444 + NS-333 + YST-SW215

24th July 2022, 12:04	#24840 \| Link
YGPMOLE Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 32	Hi! I got 2 (very stupid?) questions: even when bitstreaming a multichannel track to an AVR receiver connected by HDMI, the OUT LAV Audio Decoder Pin Info shows a S/Pdif stereo connection; it's a normal behavior? Second question: some of my Matroska files are opened by the internal MPC Matroska Source and Audio Decoder of MPC-BE instead of LAV Splitter Source and Audio Decoder (with what seems to be an audio filter for each language, instead of LAV Splitter Source + LAV Video Decoder + LAV Audio Decoder as usual): the only difference I noted is that this files are marked as AVC High Profile Level 4.1; this is the filter chain: MPC-BE 1.6.3.0 Filters currently loaded: - Default DirectSound Device - madVR Renderer - Audio Switcher - LAV Video Decoder - MPC Audio Decoder - MPC Audio Decoder - MPC Matroska Source __________________ Best Regards! Leo!