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10th October 2008, 20:13 | #1 | Link |
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Bitrate in new builds in CRF mode
i have test build 947 and 999 on the same source (anime 1002 frames) and result bitrate was very big
build 947: 703.60 kb/s build 999: 1932.93 kb/s build 947 command line Code:
C:\Documents and Settings\SHiSH\Desktop\x264>x264.Build.947.exe --crf 14.0 --ref 16 --mixed-refs --no-fast-psk ip --bframes 16 --b-rdo --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --subme 7 --trellis 1 --partitions all --8x8dct - -me umh --merange 32 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-dct-decimate --output "I:\Work\higurashi\dv d5\dvd2\s21.build947.mkv" "I:\Work\higurashi\dvd5\dvd2\VIDEO_TS\s21.avs" avis [info]: 848x480 @ 23.98 fps (1002 frames) x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 PHADD SSE4 Cache64 x264 [info]: slice I:7 Avg QP:12.05 size: 37886 PSNR Mean Y:50.92 U:52.55 V:52.59 Avg:51.40 Global:51.35 x264 [info]: slice P:548 Avg QP:12.74 size: 5649 PSNR Mean Y:49.39 U:51.79 V:52.09 Avg:50.08 Global:50.04 x264 [info]: slice B:447 Avg QP:14.02 size: 703 PSNR Mean Y:49.33 U:51.63 V:51.73 Avg:49.98 Global:49.87 x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 44.8% 0.0% 2.1% 7.6% 9.0% 30.8% 2.8% 0.0% 1.8% 1.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 35.6% 44.1% 20.3% x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 1.4% 0.5% 0.3% P16..4: 53.0% 6.2% 11.4% 0.1% 0.0% skip:27.0% x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 15.4% 0.2% 0.3% direct: 0.3% skip:83.8% L0:45.1% L1:52.4% BI: 2.5% x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:30.3% inter:38.0% x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:98.9% temporal:1.1% x264 [info]: ref P L0 73.0% 10.3% 5.9% 1.8% 1.6% 1.5% 1.2% 0.5% 0.6% 0.6% 0.6% 0.5% 0.5% 0.5% 0.5% 0.3% x264 [info]: ref B L0 76.2% 11.3% 5.1% 2.5% 1.0% 1.2% 0.7% 0.3% 0.3% 0.2% 0.2% 0.3% 0.2% 0.3% 0.1% x264 [info]: ref B L1 93.2% 6.8% x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9930943 x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:49.373 U:51.722 V:51.930 Avg:50.043 Global:49.971 kb/s:703.44 encoded 1002 frames, 11.82 fps, 703.60 kb/s Code:
C:\Documents and Settings\SHiSH\Desktop\x264>x264.Build.999.exe --crf 14.0 --ref 16 --mixed-refs --no-fast-psk ip --bframes 16 --b-adapt 2 --b-pyramid --weightb --direct auto --subme 9 --trellis 1 --partitions all --8x8d ct --me umh --merange 32 --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-dct-decimate --output "I:\Work\higurash i\dvd5\dvd2\s21.build999.mkv" "I:\Work\higurashi\dvd5\dvd2\VIDEO_TS\s21.avs" avis [info]: 848x480 @ 23.98 fps (1002 frames) x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 PHADD SSE4 Cache64 x264 [info]: slice I:7 Avg QP:10.56 size: 56936 PSNR Mean Y:52.06 U:54.48 V:54.44 Avg:52.72 Global:52.69 x264 [info]: slice P:702 Avg QP:10.70 size: 12962 PSNR Mean Y:50.73 U:53.26 V:53.31 Avg:51.43 Global:51.40 x264 [info]: slice B:293 Avg QP:11.78 size: 2044 PSNR Mean Y:50.12 U:52.67 V:52.68 Avg:50.82 Global:50.69 x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 52.0% 20.1% 19.0% 8.4% 0.5% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 9.2% 76.4% 14.5% x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 0.2% 0.5% 0.1% P16..4: 65.1% 10.7% 21.7% 0.1% 0.1% skip: 1.7% x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% B16..8: 27.8% 0.5% 2.1% direct: 1.8% skip:67.8% L0:36.8% L1:55.4% BI: 7.8% x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:71.9% inter:38.3% x264 [info]: direct mvs spatial:87.7% temporal:12.3% x264 [info]: ref P L0 80.7% 8.6% 3.7% 1.2% 0.9% 0.9% 0.8% 0.4% 0.4% 0.4% 0.4% 0.4% 0.3% 0.4% 0.3% 0.2% x264 [info]: ref B L0 76.5% 16.7% 3.1% 0.9% 0.6% 0.9% 0.4% 0.2% 0.2% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% 0.1% x264 [info]: ref B L1 94.5% 5.5% x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9937798 x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:50.565 U:53.097 V:53.131 Avg:51.259 Global:51.190 kb/s:1932.77 encoded 1002 frames, 7.41 fps, 1932.93 kb/s Any advice? |
10th October 2008, 20:31 | #2 | Link |
x264aholic
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Please read the updates.. there's been a recent change that makes CRF allocate bits differently. You'll have to adjust your CRF to a higher value now to get the same bitrate you used to get. But you should get more or less around the same quality.
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25th October 2008, 05:33 | #4 | Link |
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I made a major change to ratecontrol that changed the way CRF worked. Unfortunately, despite the fact that I tried to keep the bitrate the same overall, some sources' bitrate rose a lot, while others dropped, so the only thing I could do is try to "center" things overall.
As you might notice, CRF 14 is now ridiculous overkill; you don't need such a low value for any sane purpose. IMO the new scale is much much better; there probably no longer exist sources for which one "needs" CRF14 to achieve transparency, for example. |
25th October 2008, 14:34 | #5 | Link | |
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Quote:
In this case ~crf13 was perfect for me, producing about 150mb of video. Now obviously it is higher now, but my point is that you do have legit uses for low crf (in older builds).
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25th October 2008, 15:54 | #6 | Link | |
Testeur de codecs
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Quote:
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Le Sagittaire ... ;-) 1- Ateme AVC or x264 2- VP7 or RV10 only for anime 3- XviD, DivX or WMV9 |
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25th October 2008, 17:09 | #7 | Link | |
The Crazy Idahoan
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Quote:
I could see a potential case for 17 in this situation, but 14 and 13 are ridiculous, they aren't gaining you anything other then big files. |
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25th October 2008, 17:14 | #8 | Link | |
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Quote:
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25th October 2008, 17:41 | #9 | Link | |
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Quote:
DS made a blanket statement that there is no sane use for low crf, I merely pointed out that there is. Nothing more.
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25th October 2008, 17:47 | #10 | Link |
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lossless compression exists for your supposed reason...
low crf's as visually transparant as they are, still don't retain all the information like a lossless. And then since you're encoding from an h.264 source file, you now have to worry about frame determinism, based on the decoder you're using and how you use it to make a new re-encode. all in all, people use losslesses for the reason you state, not low crf encodes |
25th October 2008, 19:28 | #11 | Link |
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People most definitely don't use Lossless for the reason I state, because PSP doesn't do lossless. The reason I used crf so low is because any higher in older builds used to crush the bitrate for some reason (in this use case) and produce poor results (I always assumed it was a price of re-encoding from relatively low bitrate source to even lower bitrate).
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25th October 2008, 20:38 | #12 | Link |
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what? you appeared to have greatly misunderstood what i was saying at all.
I wasn't stating that people use lossless on PSP, i was stating that people use lossless files when they have a necessity to encode a single file to multiple formats. it's the concept of taking and filtering the source into a single lossless, then encoding that lossless to all the formats desired. so for your case it would look something like: Code:
/-> PSP source -> lossless -> standalone \-> PS3 and because you're encoding from the lossless, there's no quality loss from doing such a lossy -> lossy re-encode |
25th October 2008, 21:52 | #14 | Link |
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Last I tested, Lossless was frequently larger than blu-ray source. So, no, I don't see advantage of that middle man. Just use source, the whole point of using lossy encode is to speed up encoding. That certainly won't happen with a lossless source, it's just as big image dimension wise and probably even larger in bitrate. If anything it will slow things down.
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25th October 2008, 22:17 | #15 | Link |
x264aholic
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Low CRF values are still handy for extremely minimal lossy encoding. I used CRF 12 for encoding a particularly difficult sequence (720p60) and managed to cut the bitrate by 1/3 (source was ... 100 mbps lagarith?). It was enough bitrate to make sure the picture didn't suffer too much, but there were still some changes because of the inherent complexity of my source.
Either way, we have CRF 0 to 51 to give the luser enough rope to hang himself
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25th October 2008, 23:09 | #16 | Link | |
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Quote:
lossless is there to save the filtering done without data loss to a lossy encode. so if there's no to very minimal filtering, then there is no point in having a lossless. |
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25th October 2008, 23:41 | #17 | Link |
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I have been encoding my animes using --crf 18 --qpmin 18 and the quality is very good to my eyes (I watch anime on a LCD monitor with DVI) and the final file size is very good. (640x480 and 704x400 at 80MB~140MB depends on each anime episode)
Some times I add a weak deblock and weak denoise and it help some more too and don't destroy the image. Im always encoding using the latest x264 build. Oh and turn off the Psy-RDO this thing like to fuck the image and double the amount of bitrate used. Last edited by Kurth; 25th October 2008 at 23:45. |
26th October 2008, 00:11 | #18 | Link |
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@Kurd PSY-RD works better on real life imagery. It's better to turn it off for anime and then use it at a small strength (0.5:0.5 to 0.7:0.7) on films. If you adjust CRF accordingly (or if use 2-pass) too, using PSY-RD produces a better result than without.
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