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Old 9th October 2009, 18:39   #10021  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
Hi, sorry for hijacking thread, but as there is alot of discussion here and in the ffdshow thread around side versus rear channels.

My question is, for a 5.1 speaker configuration, with a 7.1 sound card, in windows vista or windows 7 even, what is the "correct" setup to choose in both audio card settings, and physical outputs. Should I be using physical rear, or physical side outputs.

My XONAR gives audio from both rear and sides, in whatever physical config I use, even in 5.1 config setting in its control panel because there is no way to stop this card upmixing unfortunately. It tries to get too smart so its hard to figure out whether I should be using side or rear outputs.
Left Surround Side and Right Surround Side should be used.

The physical rear are Left Surround back and Right Surround back, these are only available in 7.1 mode (but the Left Surround back is available in 6.1 mode too)

In 5.1 setup the side surrounds should be moved slightly to the back of the listening point

See this post for more info: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...97#post1306597
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Last edited by tetsuo55; 9th October 2009 at 18:45.
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Old 9th October 2009, 18:48   #10022  |  Link
mark0077
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tyvm.... have it correct, these HDAV Deluxe cards have terrible drivers to be honest. Simple 5.1 channel audio has never gone straight to my 5.1 speakers with out some rear channel bleeding.

It doesn't happen with WASAPI though, only directsound. I am still unsure if this is mpc-hc and ffdshow outputting rear side to rear back instead, and this card just "upmixing" that so that I hear out of my rear side channels, or just the HDAV drivers being bad as I originally thought.

Last edited by mark0077; 9th October 2009 at 18:51.
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Old 9th October 2009, 18:56   #10023  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark0077 View Post
tyvm.... have it correct, these HDAV Deluxe cards have terrible drivers to be honest. Simple 5.1 channel audio has never gone straight to my 5.1 speakers with out some rear channel bleeding.

It doesn't happen with WASAPI though, only directsound. I am still unsure if this is mpc-hc and ffdshow outputting rear side to rear back instead, and this card just "upmixing" that so that I hear out of my rear side channels, or just the HDAV drivers being bad as I originally thought.
did you set the windows control panel to 5.1 (and did you do the same in the soundcard driver panel)
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Old 9th October 2009, 19:07   #10024  |  Link
mark0077
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Ya... same problems with vista. Mark_A_W has the same problems I believe, with channel upmixing anyways. Simple stereo gets upmixed to 5.1 (thats definitely a driver problem, and can be gotten around for me by disabling the GX function).

My problem is when watching 5.1 content, or 5.1 files in any software like winamp / mpc-hc. In channel tests, the side right can be heard slightly from the side left (like 10% in the side left). Same for side left test, it can be heard slightly in side right.....

With WASAPI from reclock, this effect is no longer heard. I just get confused whether my tests (THX Surround Tests) are designed for rear rather than side channels (visually they show side channels (SL and SR) and so I doubt this is the problem), or mpc-hc, or ffdshow or windows, or my drivers are causing the problem. Very hard to diagnose.

As I say I can get around it by using WASAPI but still not happy that I can't get proper 5.1 output from channel tests..... Any ideas how to diagnose what the problem is? Thought windows 7 RC would solve it but no luck.

Strange thing is that windows and hdav control panel channel tests don't show the problem. Seems to be limited to directsound output from software.

EDIT: Looking at ffdshows mixer when playing the thx surround tests, shows BackL and BackR are active, with SideL and SideR not being active...... At least this might indicate its not the drivers.... The mixer shows this with both mpc-hc AND ffdshow being the decoder. This happens with many of my DVD's, all show back L and R active, not Side L and R.

ffdshow mixer is set to "3/0/2 - 5 channels" with LFE channels on, everything else off. I think this is incorrect, this seems to assume (by looking at the mixer visually) that 3/0/2 means back L and R should be used. (the opposite to what tetsuo said, as selecting 6 or 7 channels visually enables the side L and R)
mpc-hc ac3 decoder settings are set to "3 Front + 2 rear". There is no "3 Front + 2 side". Is this a mistake / omission?

Last edited by mark0077; 9th October 2009 at 19:31.
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Old 9th October 2009, 21:01   #10025  |  Link
Mercury_22
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For those using 5.1 Speakers DON'T use "5.1 Surround" in Windows's Speakers Setup use "7.1 Surround" and connect your "Surround Speakers" to the REAR OUT connector of your sound card !

Why ? Because the "5.1 Surround" in Windows's Speakers Setup can go either way depending on the DRIVERS :
If a
>> system vendor has set the pin config values of the integrated HD
>> Audio device to indicate that the 5.1 device uses side speakers
>> then we expose that to the OS when it asks the driver through the
>> channel config property request but if the system vendor uses the
>> pin config sequence values in the multi-channel device association
>> to indicate that the 5.1 system has rear speakers the HD Audio
>> class driver will expose that to the OS as the channel mask for
>> that device instead.


The reason for not distinguishing between the back-speaker and side-speaker configurations in either case is that home users tend not to distinguish between these speaker positions—the placement of furniture in the room might be the primary factor in determining whether a pair of speakers ends up beside or behind the listener. Forcing users to recognize the subtle differences between these alternate configurations would complicate the user interface for little benefit.

Read the entire doc here Pin Configuration Guidelines for High Definition Audio Devices

But you don't have to take my word for this use any other decoder or player (e.g. TotalMedia Theatre or PowerDVD) and play any of these test files

Test 5.1 AC3 (Dolby Digital)
Test 7.1 E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus)
Test 7.1 Dolby TrueHD
Test 7.1 DTS-HD HR
Test 7.1 LPCM

or any Demo Disc from Dolby or DTS or any calibration disc or... and see for yourself


P.S. And maybe connect something, (e.g. Headphones) to the the SIDE OUT connector of your sound card if your drivers are using auto JACK DETECTION.
This is NOT USUALLY NECESSARY but it might help with some cards / drivers
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Last edited by Mercury_22; 9th October 2009 at 21:12.
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Old 10th October 2009, 00:31   #10026  |  Link
mark0077
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Thanks alot. Will try it out. I wonder how this knowledge can reach the masses. Cheers
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Old 10th October 2009, 02:09   #10027  |  Link
rt87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuo55 View Post
I don't see how they are going to add a lot of the features people want, without getting sued.
Simple answer: Because it is China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albain View Post
Hi,

here is a patch for MPC-HC that brings WASAPI support (exclusive mode) on the MPC Audio renderer

Here is a sample binary file (.ax)

I forced it to WASAPI exclusive mode with the useWASAPI bool.

All the UI configuration needs to be made : WASAPI vs directsound, and select which device to use for WASAPI and fo directsound modes
Any chance adding Kernel Streaming for XP?
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Old 10th October 2009, 06:57   #10028  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rt87 View Post
Simple answer: Because it is China.



Any chance adding Kernel Streaming for XP?
skip XP and go to W7, believe me!
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Old 10th October 2009, 07:45   #10029  |  Link
tetsuo55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THX-UltraII View Post
skip XP and go to W7, believe me!
Exactly
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Old 10th October 2009, 08:25   #10030  |  Link
Mangix
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but what if you don't like either Vista or 7?
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Old 10th October 2009, 08:37   #10031  |  Link
tetsuo55
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but what if you don't like either Vista or 7?
You'll get used to it (but please don't use vista)
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Old 10th October 2009, 10:45   #10032  |  Link
THX-UltraII
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DO NOT use Vista and if your a HTPC freak go with Windows7.
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Old 10th October 2009, 11:06   #10033  |  Link
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I've just discovered (in MPC-HC Goth Sync thread) that with Windows 7, Aero caused me judders (when using 50Hz) and audio lags (when using 24Hz) . Reclock and Goth Sync wasn't able to correct this...

So Aero is not that perfect. And it seems without Aero, I have tearing when watching some videos... Tearing I can avoid if I use D3D in MPC.
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Old 10th October 2009, 12:35   #10034  |  Link
yesgrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
but what if you don't like either Vista or 7?
If you use the classic theme it doesn't look too much different. Unfortunatelly, in the last RC, it's still a little buggy, but I hope that it will be improved in the retail build...
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Old 10th October 2009, 13:59   #10035  |  Link
wOxxOm
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any chance of implementing audio/subtitle language preference options (not for DVD but for all the containers) just like in Haali's splitter: eng,jpn etc...?

btw seems like changing playback speed (2x etc) doesn't speedup natively displayed subtitles
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Old 10th October 2009, 14:03   #10036  |  Link
irishrobbie
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is there a way where i can have the scale to 16:9 tv function in pan and scan by using a hotkey.thanks in advance
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Old 10th October 2009, 14:22   #10037  |  Link
DigitalDeviant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangix View Post
but what if you don't like either Vista or 7?
Then get used to software eventually not supporting your OS and developers ignoring your requests to fix things that break on an outdated OS.
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Last edited by DigitalDeviant; 10th October 2009 at 17:01.
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Old 10th October 2009, 16:00   #10038  |  Link
hdboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec-Chum View Post
pardon my ignorance, but how do I use this? I registered the ax, and added it to external filters. I do see MPC audio renderer in the filters menu when playing. however, I'm getting bad audio de-sync and seeking often causes mpc to hang. using svn 1296, win7 RTM 32bit
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Old 10th October 2009, 16:20   #10039  |  Link
Dark Eiri
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Quote:
but what if you don't like either Vista or 7?
Really? Using XP now must feel exactly like using Windows 95 by the time XP was released. Even my sluggish netbook runs Windows 7 faster than it runs Windows XP. Move on, people.
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Old 10th October 2009, 17:40   #10040  |  Link
albain
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Hi, XP does not have any WASAPI layer, only Vista or 7 do

About the new audio renderer, I have a question about how works MPC HC : if I set MPC renderer as default, MPCHC will try to load it but only once.
If the media type is refused, it will switch back to directsound renderer.

Graphstudio does not have the same behaviour : it will try the first (and same) mediatype (which is basic and lacks of information, which is the reason why the wasapi renderer will refuse it) and it will try others (more detailed) types which will be accepted.
Do you know how to fix this ?

Otherwise, there is (at least) one bug in it : the memory is not freed correctly. Don't know why

I also made some changes : for example the initialization of the service should not be remade in case of reconnection (so in case of change of media type)
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