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13th November 2011, 12:05 | #1 | Link |
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Creating all-region NTSC DVD, getting streak/band/ing on PAL player. [I'm hopeless!]
[EDIT: I recorded a video of the problem, and uploaded it to vimeo. The link is below.]
Hello all, Later this year I'm getting my first film published, and to have full control I decided to make the DVD image myself. Now, I want to be able to sell this film internationally, as there's been some interest from outside of Europe. However, we do not have the option of creating two DVD versions. I read that PAL players are supposed to be able to play NTSC DVDs just fine, so I figured I'd create a region-free NTSC DVD. However, on my PAL DVD player I'm getting a weird kind of streaking and banding. It does not look like an interlacing issue, but there's horizontal bands all over the screen in various shades of the actual image. This is most visible when exposure shifts happen. The bands vary in size, and make the film unwatchable... Now, the issue for me is that it DOES NOT show up on the PC. It plays back perfectly on the PC. The original source is a 1080p25 source file. To convert it to the right specifications I have used the following AviSynth scripts: Code:
#Load Video AVISource("G:\EFOS\lag.avi") #Convert to YV12 colorspace for LSFmod ConvertToYV12(interlaced=false) #Spline 36 resize to NTSC standard Spline36Resize(720,480) #LSFmod sharpen without preblur LSFmod(strength=90, Smode = 5, Smethod = 3, preblur="OFF", secure=true, soothe=true, keep=80) Code:
AVISource("resize.avs") ConvertToYV12() Tweak(bright=10) Limiter(16, 235, 16, 240) AssumeTFF() # NTSC ChangeFPS(60000,1001) Separatefields().SelectEvery(4,0,3).Weave() The final AviSynth script I load into TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5, to deliver a DVD compliant MPEG2 stream with a max bitrate of 8000kbps, 29,97fps, 720x480 with a NTSC widescreen PAR. This is then loaded into DVD Architect Pro 5 where it is burned without re-encoding, video set to top-field interlacing. At first I thought it might be an interlacing issue, so I removed the last command of the AviSynth script and let TMPGEnc do the interlacing, but to no avail. I tried setting both top and bottom-field interlacing in DVD Architect Pro, but to no avail. I'm hopeless. What am I doing wrong? If any other information is required, let me know. All versions I've tried work perfect on the PC, but fail on all three DVD players I've tried. What's the key to making a universal DVD that can be used worldwide? Thanks for reading and helping, I'm all out of options. Last edited by Chibs; 13th November 2011 at 15:35. |
13th November 2011, 15:37 | #3 | Link |
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It's not as visible in a still as it is in the actual moving image, so I've uploaded a video recorded from the TV. It is linked in the top of my first post. It's not a PAL DVD, it's an NSTC DVD, in a PAL DVD player. I've tried it on three players, one being a Pioneer DV-310, the other two no-brand POS. The recorded video is from one of the latter, a Provision PRDVD3100, on which the problem is slightly more noticeable then the Pioneer, though that might also have to do with the difference in TV.
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13th November 2011, 17:47 | #4 | Link | |
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My guess is your DVD-Players are setup to always output PAL no matter what's on the DVD. This means they'll do a on-the-fly normconversion to PAL, or, how I'd describe it, they butcher it to PAL.
There might be something else going wrong to make things even worse in your case but please do not expect any DVD-Player to do even a decent on-the-fly normconversion. It'll always look inferior on DVD-Players that do not output your NTSC DVD in it's native format. To get around this one has to change the setting of the DVD-Player's TV standard to "Auto" instead of PAL, usually there are three options: Auto, PAL, NTSC. The problem however is, while Auto will never butcher a DVD to another TV standard, it requires the TV to be able to properly display the 525 Lines 60 Hz signal that is coming from the DVD-Player now. Modern TVs should all be able to display it correctly, older decent ones (sold after maybe around 1995) do mostly as well, but the chances of a correct display with those is much better if a Scart cable is used which supports RGB video (which also requires the Scart cable to be connected to the correct RGB-capable Scart connector on the TV if there is more than one). You see, there are many places where problems might occur. Quote:
There are too many "if's" and compromises when making a universal DVD. If you want to deliver the highest compatibility and especially also the highest possible video quality then you simply have to make both a NTSC and a PAL DVD, no arguing about it, you've seen yourself what may happen otherwise. Your source is 25p, converting it to NTSC 29.97i when not absolutely needed is not a good idea, a waste of quality for anyone watching that DVD in a PAL country, not even speaking of the problems that this may cause, like I said. By the way, to "convert it to the right specifications" you should resize it to 704x480. "Brightening" it using Tweak(bright=10) is not a good thing either, it'll make the video washed out on properly calibrated TVs, assuming the levels of your video are in TV-range to begin with (maybe they are not, have you checked it with histogram("levels")?). I've had a brief look at your video, to me it doesn't look like your TV is having any problems with the actual signal (well, that might be because it's converted to PAL by the player). Did you encode it explicitly as interlaced video within TMPEG? You should first check what happens if you change the DVD-Players setting to Auto and then report back. Edit: You might also notice certain problems with the probably exessive vertical sharpness of your video (Spline36 downsized and LSF'ed) like heavy line twitter in static shots and jaggies whenever detailed things move. Last edited by TheSkiller; 13th November 2011 at 18:43. |
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13th November 2011, 18:29 | #5 | Link | |
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Quote:
Regarding the DVD players; They don't have the option to be switched to NTSC. It seems very plausible to me that this might be the issue at hand, but as I had asked around and looked for clues online into how to make a universal DVD, everyone just told me to make an NTSC DVD as PAL players would play it just fine. Guess not. Since the main group of interest is in Europe I wouldn't want people to have to switch settings and what-not... Is it incorrect that PAL players will just play NTSC DVDs? Of course, it plays it, but in this state that's unusable. It is explicitly encoded as interlaced video in TMPGEnc. Am I correct in choosing top-field interlacing all through-out the process? Is there any other way to make a 'universal' DVD, perhaps mixed content with both a PAL and NTSC track? Is that possible? |
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13th November 2011, 19:01 | #6 | Link | ||||
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Quote:
This is very unusual, there really should be such setting somewhere deep in the DVD-Players configuration setup. The only DVD-Player I know of that doesn't have this setting is a Playstation 2, it is on "Auto" all the time so to say. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by TheSkiller; 13th November 2011 at 19:08. |
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14th November 2011, 11:53 | #7 | Link | |
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Quote:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147176
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13th November 2011, 19:11 | #8 | Link |
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I'm not sure I've ever seen a PAL DVD player which doesn't have an option to set the output type when playing an NTSC disc.
I am sure I've never come across a PAL DVD player which won't play NTSC discs properly. Try the same player with another TV. It's possible the DVD player is outputting NTSC fine but the TV isn't all that good at it. Can you get your hands on another NTSC disc to try? Why interlaced? |
14th November 2011, 10:50 | #9 | Link |
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Thanks once more. Just to re-iterate and make sure I have it all correct:
I'll leave the NTSC version on the disc as 29,97 interlaced. I will change it's resolution to 704x480. Correct? For the PAL version, would you suggest going Progressive or Interlaced? The source is progressive, so this seems to make the most sense. And I will make it's resolution 704x576? |
Tags |
dvd, ntsc, pal, region-free, universal |
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