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14th June 2017, 16:29 | #44102 | Link |
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A slightly off the topic question, but hopefully I am forgiven:
My LG TV has a PC-mode only on 59 or 60hz refreshrates, it drops to the full-processing mode with anything else (23,24,25,29,50 etc). Hence I am asking if there is any real reason why I shouldn't use 60hz and smooth motion with madVR? Is the blending algorithm worse than what TVs do? I doubt this 2010-year panel does REAL 24hz, but some sort of internal conversion to 60hz or close instead. It has the LGs "True Cinema" toggle in settings though, which apparently in new models means 72hz, but when doing a custom resolution with 72hz, it drops frames and is still 60hz really. Very confusing for sure. However even with all settings turned off in the LG, when it is not in PC-mode, the text is less sharp and clearly some processing still left, which I am trying to eliminate with the PC-mode in the first place. So! Anyone using LG TVs or older TVs in general which claim to work with all signals, but having a close to 60hz panels? Are you preferring the TV or the madVRs smooth motion for it? Is there any real downsides on using frame blending in such case on big screen? |
14th June 2017, 18:05 | #44103 | Link | |
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14th June 2017, 19:00 | #44104 | Link |
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I definitely prefer 60 Hz with smooth motion on any TV that doesn't have a good 24 Hz mode. I find smooth motion better than the 3:2 judder or 4:2:2 processing that occurs when using the other modes.
The only reason not to use smooth motion is the slight softening due to the blended frames but that is usually much better than what the TV would do.
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14th June 2017, 21:36 | #44105 | Link |
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you should use your eyes. the number of people that doesn't notice 3:2 judder is pretty high.
it sounds strange but LG TV are not that bad at the true 24p even with 60 hz panels. if they run the screen at 48 or something like that i don't know. and that doesn't mean they accept a custom resolution at 72 hz and stuff like this. just to give you an idea how strange the TV market is there are a lot of Philips TVs that can do PC mode at any refresh rate and do proper 24p even cheaper ones. only sony is a saver choice they can usually do this too. on the other hand Samsung totally fail in this regard with the 2016 series most screen can't do 24p properly even the more expensive ones. |
14th June 2017, 23:47 | #44106 | Link |
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I've seen this mentioned a bit, how does one know if it "can't do 24p properly" Are you saying there are bad implementations of 3:2 judder or that the TV is simply not running at almost exactly 23.976Hz or some multiple of it?
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15th June 2017, 00:19 | #44107 | Link |
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a lot of TVs out there display everything with 60 or 50 hz they can't do anything close to 23p.
when smoothmotion is more smooth than a 23p signal you got one of these screens. the number is of displays that are unable to do 23p is gigantic and the number of people that doesn't notice it is even bigger. for example my TV can do 23p "properly" without pure direct mode (PC mode) with pure direct mode on it is doing a 3:2 judder. so i'm using the pure direct mode at 60 hz with smoothmotion. my old Philips could a that without a problem in PC mode. of cause you should never forget to disable the motion interpolation when you are testing this. rtings is testing this: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku7500 i don't like the way they test it but it's ok. |
15th June 2017, 11:21 | #44108 | Link | |
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This is what happens on my Kuro with Advanced PureCinema settings. It takes a 24fps source and it does 3:3 pulldown to display it at 72Hz (but you never see anywhere on the display info any reference to 72Hz). Last edited by ashlar42; 15th June 2017 at 11:40. |
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16th June 2017, 11:10 | #44111 | Link |
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Can anyone point me in the right direction please?
Clean install of Win 10 (pre CU) x64. latest Madvr. Gtx 1080 Strix. My problem - Playing some files in FSE gives dropped frames, but no dropped frames in non-fse. both dx11, with the default buffer settings set for non-fse and fse. Mediainfo for such a file: Complete name : E:\Videos\4K Video Downloader\The_World_in_HDR_in_4K_HDR10.mkv Format : Matroska Format version : Version 4 / Version 2 File size : 308 MiB Duration : 2 min 34 s Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 16.7 Mb/s Movie name : The World in HDR in 4K - Demo-UHD3D.com Encoded date : UTC 2017-04-24 13:38:07 Writing application : mkvmerge v11.0.0 ('Alive') 64bit Writing library : libebml v1.3.4 + libmatroska v1.4.5 Video ID : 1 Format : HEVC Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC Duration : 2 min 34 s Bit rate : 16.6 Mb/s Width : 3 840 pixels Height : 2 160 pixels Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate mode : Constant Frame rate : 59.940 FPS Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.033 Stream size : 306 MiB (99%) Default : Yes Forced : No Audio ID : 2 Format : Vorbis Format settings, Floor : 1 Codec ID : A_VORBIS Duration : 2 min 34 s Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 128 kb/s Channel(s) : 2 channels Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz Frame rate : 48.199 FPS (915 spf) Compression mode : Lossy Stream size : 2.02 MiB (1%) Writing application : Google Language : English Default : Yes Forced : No Cheers K UPDATE: Lowered by GPU queue down to 4 and used jinc to render at 4k and its fine. Odd, would have thought a GTX 1080 strix would have no problem with a 4k HDR clip @ 60fps. Update 2: FSE kinda works now if I use copyback (cpu maxes at 30% (4x4.4 ghz) and gpu queue of 4. Odd things is, here's by GPU stats playing the file? GPU clock max 2139 mhz Mem clock 10962 mhz GPU Temp max 57c GPU usage 86% max Mem usage 2564 out of 8191 mb If using cpu instead of copyback, my cpu jumps to 100% and its a mess. Final Update - resolved. Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 16th June 2017 at 17:34. Reason: Issue resolved. |
16th June 2017, 12:19 | #44112 | Link | |
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What could cause it's non functioning even if it's set to "on" via hotkey? |
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16th June 2017, 13:22 | #44113 | Link |
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Hello,
I currently have a chuwi hi13 which embed the 3000x2000 display of the last surface pro, together with a Celeron N3450 (Intel Apollo Lake Quad Core with Intel HD 500). I tried to set the combo mpchc + LAV + madvr (all 32bits), with the lowest settings, using the hardware as much as possible : LAV -> quicksync (i tried DXVA2), madvr upscaling -> DXVA2 (I tried other options like bicubic with no change). When I launch any x264 1080p movie mpchc says "hardware acceleration" is active. But despite of this I get about 50ms rendering time with a lot of frame drop and stuttering image. The default windows 10 movie player plays rather smoothly, but I'd prefer to fine tune the rendering using madvr. I expected to be able to enable smooth motion, to be honnest. I think hardware acceleration is not correctly used. Could you remind me which are the recommended settings for such hardware?
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16th June 2017, 16:49 | #44114 | Link |
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a to slow decoded video shouldn't effect the rendertimes or with other word your GPU can't handle it.
intel iGPU are throttling heavily with temps and cpu usage there is no much you can do with a low end GPU and an over 1080p screen. |
17th June 2017, 09:31 | #44115 | Link | |
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Well, I tested it with 72hz custom resolution AND 48hz one. Both drop frames in the smoothness tests and simple things like doing scrolling is more stuttering than with windows set to 60hz. As the display still continues to be refreshed near 60hz regardless of what signal it is sent to it. If smoothmotion only gives a tad of blending on it, I guess I can live with that nicely, so going to just ditch the TV's processing and go for 59/60hz display with smoothmotion and reclock. At least the movie I watched seemed more smooth this way (and didn't have to add audio delay for the processing). Thanks for the help, was not entirely sure what kind of stuff TV manufacturers advertise as "true 24p" nowadays. Hopefully the marketing bullshit gets done with as modern panels support better ranges natively. |
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17th June 2017, 15:47 | #44117 | Link |
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Mmmmh not really: ReClock syncs the video to the graphics card output clock, while smoothmotion converts framerate. You could use 59/60 Hz and still have missed/repeated frames if the player and the gfx clock are not in sync and ReClock fixes that, though I admit modern graphics cards have more precise clocking and modern renderers are better at this and it's less a problem than in the past.
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17th June 2017, 16:13 | #44119 | Link | ||
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with a not matching refreshrate relclock is not that useful and smoothmotion is. Quote:
and modern GPU are not better than older ones. there is simply more than 1 clock generator in a system and that the core of the problem. |
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Tags |
direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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