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Old 30th March 2016, 00:44   #1  |  Link
asarian
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Remove pulldown from alleged progressive source

What is the best way to remove the pulldown from this video? eac3to tells me "The MPEG2 stream is a mixture of progressive and interlaced encoding." And I don't see any option for pulldown in QTGMC. Little confused here.


Video
ID : 1
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : Variable
Codec ID : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 189 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 9 800 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Variable
Original frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Scan order : 2:3 Pulldown
Compression mode : Lossy
Time code of first frame : 01:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
GOP, Open/Closed of first frame : Closed
Default : No
Forced : No
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Old 30th March 2016, 01:10   #2  |  Link
johnmeyer
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What makes you think the video itself contains pulldown? It may already be progressive, and the "2:3 pulldown" being reported may be nothing more than the pulldown flag. I say this because the frame rate is being reported as 23.976.

If you have any question, do a lossless cut of a few seconds of high motion and upload that so people can take a look at it.
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Old 30th March 2016, 08:15   #3  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
What makes you think the video itself contains pulldown? It may already be progressive, and the "2:3 pulldown" being reported may be nothing more than the pulldown flag. I say this because the frame rate is being reported as 23.976.

If you have any question, do a lossless cut of a few seconds of high motion and upload that so people can take a look at it.

Thanks for your reply.

tsMuxer lists it as 720:480i, 29.97fps. Hence my confusion. I uploaded a 2secs sample, though, here:

What pulldown is this?
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Old 30th March 2016, 09:33   #4  |  Link
Sharc
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It looks like telecined to me.
I would suggest:
Code:
TFM().tdecimate()  
QTGMC(InputType=1) #stabilizing & cleaning
which returns 23.976 progressive frames per second

(It would be helpful to get a segment with action/movement rather than a static scene)
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Old 30th March 2016, 10:27   #5  |  Link
Music Fan
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Yes, that's too short and not enough animated to see exactly what it is.
For Gspot, this is 23.976 fps with a pulldown flag, you can remove it with TsMuxer.
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Old 30th March 2016, 14:43   #6  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
It looks like telecined to me.
I would suggest:
Code:
TFM().tdecimate()  
QTGMC(InputType=1) #stabilizing & cleaning
which returns 23.976 progressive frames per second

(It would be helpful to get a segment with action/movement rather than a static scene)

My bad, Here's a somewhat longer scene (10 secs, is that allowed here?)

Slightly longer

On this small fragment, removing pulldown with tsMuxer seemed fine. On the whole DVD, though, I got this strange error (from tsMuxer):

Warning! Source stream contain irregular pulldown marks. Mistiming between original fps and fps/1.25(without pulldown) exceed 100ms.

As always, your collective help is much appreciated!
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Old 30th March 2016, 16:41   #7  |  Link
Sharc
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It's definitely soft telecined using pulldown flags.
The pulldown pattern is regular, and removing the pulldown flag or leaving the flag alone and apply IVTC via TFM().tdecimate() produces identical results.
There seems to be a hiccup though at the very end of the clip, but I suspect it is just due to the cutting.
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Old 30th March 2016, 16:44   #8  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
It's definitely soft telecined using pulldown flags.
The pulldown pattern is regular, and removing the pulldown flag or leaving the flag alone and apply IVTC via TFM().tdecimate() produces identical results.
There seems to be a hiccup though at the very end of the clip, but I suspect it is just due to the cutting.
Thank you kindly!
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Old 30th March 2016, 18:30   #9  |  Link
johnmeyer
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The video you uploaded is simply 24 fps. No pulldown removal is needed. You can edit and deal with it as 24p. As I suspected in my initial post, it does have the pulldown flag set which means that when you play it with a "pulldown aware" player (including a DVD player) duplicate fields will be add in order to achieve 29.97 fps without changing the playback speed.
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Old 30th March 2016, 18:46   #10  |  Link
Music Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
The video you uploaded is simply 24 fps. No pulldown removal is needed.
Open the video in MediaInfo or Gspot, you will see there is a pulldown flag. And I believe 24p in 720.480 without pulldown flag does not exist on DVD.
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Old 30th March 2016, 18:51   #11  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Music Fan View Post
Open the video in MediaInfo or Gspot, you will see there is a pulldown flag. And I believe 24p in 720.480 without pulldown flag does not exist on DVD.
Both tsMuxer and eac3to, as well as MediaInfo, say it comes with 3:2 pulldown.

Now I'm confused again, LOL.
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Old 30th March 2016, 19:25   #12  |  Link
asarian
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Hmm, using this:

FFVideoSource ("f:\video\taylor.m2ts")
TFM().tdecimate()

Yields a very weird fps:

f:\jobs\taylor.avs: 720x480, 8732/455 fps, 572 frames
y4m [info]: 720x480p 1:1 @ 8732/455 fps (cfr)

19.1912 fps, to be precise. That can't be right.
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Old 30th March 2016, 20:37   #13  |  Link
johnmeyer
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This script:

Code:
loadPlugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\ffms2.dll")
source=FFVideoSource("E:\Documents\Dnload\UNPACK\taylor.m2ts")
return source
yields a 23.976 video. As I said above, your video is encoded as 23.976, so the original film frames are there.

There is no hard telecine.

Here's the snapshot of the result of that script, playing in VirtualDub:



Note how the File Information dialog in Virtualdub correctly reports 23.976.
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Old 30th March 2016, 20:41   #14  |  Link
johnmeyer
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BTW, your "weird fps" is more or less what you would expect when you (incorrectly) apply the standard 3:2 TDecimate to 23.976:

23.976 * (24 /30 ) = 19.1808

I'm not sure how you got to the slightly different roundoff, but it doesn't really matter. Just don't do any IVTC, and you'll get the result you want.
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Old 30th March 2016, 20:43   #15  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
This script:

Code:
loadPlugin("c:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\ffms2.dll")
source=FFVideoSource("E:\Documents\Dnload\UNPACK\taylor.m2ts")
return source
yields a 23.976 video. As I said above, your video is encoded as 23.976, so the original film frames are there.

There is no hard telecine.

Here's the snapshot of the result of that script, playing in VirtualDub:



Note how the File Information dialog in Virtualdub correctly reports 23.976.

^^ Brilliant stuff here! Thank you very much!
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Old 30th March 2016, 21:33   #16  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarian View Post
Hmm, using this:

FFVideoSource ("f:\video\taylor.m2ts")
TFM().tdecimate()

Yields a very weird fps:

f:\jobs\taylor.avs: 720x480, 8732/455 fps, 572 frames
y4m [info]: 720x480p 1:1 @ 8732/455 fps (cfr)

19.1912 fps, to be precise. That can't be right.
This just means that your player is not pulldown aware, means it ignores the pulldown flags.
If the player would respect the pulldown flags you would get 23.976fps.

Last edited by Sharc; 30th March 2016 at 21:58.
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Old 30th March 2016, 22:24   #17  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
This just means that your player is not pulldown aware, means it ignores the pulldown flags.
If the player would respect the pulldown flags you would get 23.976fps.
There was no player involved yet. The '8732/455 fps' was just what x264 reported.
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Old 30th March 2016, 22:40   #18  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarian View Post
There was no player involved yet. The '8732/455 fps' was just what x264 reported.
Player or decoder (FFVideoSource), whichever ....
I indexed the clip with DGindexNV and decoded with DGsource("...... .dgi").

Last edited by Sharc; 30th March 2016 at 22:46.
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Old 30th March 2016, 22:45   #19  |  Link
asarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Player or decoder (FFVideoSource), whichever ....
I indexed the clip with DGindexNV.

Actually, now that you mention DGindexNV, I just noticed frame inconsistencies with FFVideoSource:

SetMemoryMax (768)
SetMTMode (5,4)
FFVideoSource ("f:\jobs\taylor.mkv")
SetMTMode (3)

I wanted to use my old DGDecNV again (lost it since my clean install of Win 10). While I can still download the binaries from Neuron2's site, it would seem the online license generator is gone.

Are there other frame-safe source indexers out there? (for AviSynth 2.6)
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Old 30th March 2016, 22:58   #20  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarian View Post
Actually, now that you mention DGindexNV, I just noticed frame inconsistencies with FFVideoSource:

SetMemoryMax (768)
SetMTMode (5,4)
FFVideoSource ("f:\jobs\taylor.mkv")
SetMTMode (3)

I wanted to use my old DGDecNV again (lost it since my clean install of Win 10). While I can still download the binaries from Neuron2's site, it would seem the online license generator is gone.

Are there other frame-safe source indexers out there? (for AviSynth 2.6)
You may want to try LWLibavVideoSource(...).

P.S. The DG.... license generator worked for me recently. Otherwise you may PM Donald Graft.

Last edited by Sharc; 30th March 2016 at 23:01.
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