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Old 17th January 2018, 21:42   #1381  |  Link
von Suppé
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As it happens I too have been struggling with the Avatar subtitles. It's one of the 3D movies why I asked r0lZ in my earlier post for a feature in the XY coordinates-processing in one of his tools.
The standard SUPs are displayed way to high, IMO.
Man, have I been busy. OCR-ing the SUPstreams, edit/correcting text, timings, exporting to ASS, adding fonts, creating ASS styles, exporting to SUP. From SUP to XML/PNG. Then cloning positions, remuxing again... pfffff. Lot of work!! And for two languages, that is. I can almost word-for-word say each line perfectly

hubblec4 said:
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Originally Posted by hubblec4 View Post
So many issues with all the BDSup2Sub editions, nobody there who will write a better SUP-Tool?
I agree fully, I'd also welcome a handy knife that will let you do whatever you want with SUP or XML/PNG files, for that matter. A real-time preview screen during editing/creating is a must.

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Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
But note that if you restrict the tool to work only for the X coordinates, the (rare) subtitles that are on the top of the screen in the guide will not be moved. That may and probably will be a problem.
Well, I always keep an eye out for subtitles that are placed on top of the screen. Then, ASS comes in handy as you can use a style to these specific lines. Vertical alignment is specified by your wishes and only applied to the lines with that style.

On the other hand, it is possible to output & OCR SUP lines that only are in the lower half of the picture. So I can imagine SUP lines that are only in the upper half can be output also. If one wants, those 2 SUP files can be processed separately. After you have your separate, wanted SUP- or XML/PNG files (one for the lower and one for the upper half) you would have to merge them, of course. I don't know if that is possible, but I would be very happy if merging SUP- and/or XML/PNG files would be possible.
As you have maybe read my Avatar subtitle experience, you can imagine that such a tool would be very much appreciated.

Last edited by von Suppé; 18th January 2018 at 12:14. Reason: addendum
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Old 18th January 2018, 13:11   #1382  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by von Suppé View Post
As it happens I too have been struggling with the Avatar subtitles. It's one of the 3D movies why I asked r0lZ in my earlier post for a feature in the XY coordinates-processing in one of his tools.
I understand your wishes, but Avatar is probably the bad example for the need to move the subtitles. The original 3D subtitles are carefully placed on screen so that they do not enter in the objects or characters in the foreground. The depth of an individual subtitle has been defined for the precise position of that subtitle, and if it is moved elsewhere, chances are that it will not be in a gap between the foreground objects, and you will ruin the 3D effect. This is especially true if you move the subtitles globally down, as usually, there are more objects in the bottom of the foreground.

IMO, restricting the displacement of the subtitles in a specific direction should be used only when the original subtitles are always on the same horizontal line and are only moved to the left or right to avoid to enter in some foreground objects. In that case, grabbing the position of new subtitles from that stream without restricting the Y may give the impression that the subtitles are not correctly aligned along the Y axis.
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I agree fully, I'd also welcome a handy knife that will let you do whatever you want with SUP or XML/PNG files, for that matter. A real-time preview screen during editing/creating is a must.
A good wysiwyg subtitle editor is Aegisub, but it works with SSA/ASS subtitles only, and it has no support for the 3D depth.
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Old 20th January 2018, 17:51   #1383  |  Link
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Attention!
MKVToolNix (used in BD3D2MK3D) has removed features.
Quote:
# Version 20.0.0 "I Am The Sun" 2018-01-15

* Feature removal: several deprecated features have been removed:
...
* all command line tools: support for the deprecated, old, proprietary format
used for option files
...
Now the __MUX_3D_OPTIONS file must be in JSON format. Don't update MKVToolNix files, or you have to change BD3D2MK3D.

Last edited by frank; 20th January 2018 at 17:53.
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Old 20th January 2018, 19:50   #1384  |  Link
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Damn! Thanks for the hint!
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Old 22nd January 2018, 05:39   #1385  |  Link
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Hi r0lZ, do you have any plans to add an option in future BD3D2MK3D version to avoid re-encoding and build the frame-packed MKV just with the frames available in the original ISO (AVC+MVC)? I don't know if it's possible for frame-packed but makemkv seems to have found a way to do it for their mkv. I tried an mkv out of makemkv and m2ts out of tsmuxer of the same BD3D on my LG E6's internal player and it was able play those in 2D so the file generated is backward compatible and I could play both of them in 3D using mpc-hc so 3D works as well in the players that support them. Thanks!
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Old 22nd January 2018, 11:06   #1386  |  Link
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I have to analyse the possibilities of MakeMkv. But if it's only the latest version that can do that, I will not be able to use it, for the reason highlighted by Frank here. (I may change later the format of the MUX_OPTIONS files to be compatible with Mkvtoolnix v20+, but it's not currently in my todo list.)

Also, since you want to just remux the ORIGINAL AVC + MVC streams as a (big) MK3D, you can already use MakeMKV for that job. It does that very well, and it is still free if you use the key offered regularly here. Just add the MVC stream in the list of streams to mux (as it is disabled by default) and let it do its job.

So, if I implement AVC+MVC support in BD3D2MK3D, it should be with the possibility to re-encode the AVC and MVC streams. But that's a big job, so don't expect that soon! And note that only a few Windows players support that format. I'm not really interested in implementing it while no standalone player or TV can play it.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 01:40   #1387  |  Link
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Understood. I too would prefer a more universal format but not able to find something that looks good and my LG TV can play. HSBS was ok for my 55" LCD but on 65" I can see the jaggies. Yet to try SBS but the frame sequential file created with BD3D2MK3D didn't work on my E6, nor with mpc-hc/mpc-be.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 09:04   #1388  |  Link
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@ll

I have the movie "Geostorm.2017.3D" with the v1.5 converted.
Unfortunately, the 3D FORCED subtitles (00098.track_4624.Deu.3D.idx) are black.



The 2D FORCED subtitle (00098.track_4624.Deu.2D.idx) is white.



What do I have to change so that they appear white, like other subtitles?



Thanks and best regards
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Old 23rd January 2018, 11:30   #1389  |  Link
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Strange! Yet another bug of BDSup2Sub. :-(

Try to load the ORIGINAL stream (without .2D or .3D extension) in BDSup2Sub++ or in BDSup2Sub.jar. (They are in the toolset folder.) Be sure to enable the Change Frame Rate option and set the FPS Source and FPS Target to 23.976. (It's necessary to avoid little timing problems.) Verify if the forced subtitles have the right color. If it's not the case, retry with the other version of BDSup2Sub. When it's correct, save them as a new temporary BD SUP file. Then, have a look at the end of the 3D-Planes.log file to identify the 3D-Plane to use for your stream, and use BD3D2MK3D -> Subtitle Tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Plane/OFS) to convert the 2D stream you have just created.

I note also that the images above are taken from an OCR program that accepts only DVD SUB/IDX. Converting to that format is not recommended, because it is less good than the original SUP, and it has to reduce the number of colours to 3 (plus the transparent background). That may be the cause of the problem. So, do the conversion in SUP format only, and if you really need the IDX/SUP stream, convert the final 3D SUP to DVD SUB. That should work.

If a specific version of BDSup2Sub produced the black subtitles, and if it works correctly with the BD SUP format, please let me know. I will try to convert the same stream myself, and see if I can find a solution to detect the problem automatically and, if it's possible, implement a workaround.

Anyway, thanks for the bug report!
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Old 23rd January 2018, 11:35   #1390  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexian View Post
Yet to try SBS but the frame sequential file created with BD3D2MK3D didn't work on my E6, nor with mpc-hc/mpc-be.
The FS format is very special, and many players do not support it. It has been implemented mainly for some old projectors that do not support SBS or T&B.

Have you tested Full-SBS with your TV ? If it has frame buffers large enough, that's probably the best solution. (It's the case of all UHD (4K) 3D TVs, but unfortunately, many standard HD TVs do not support the Full formats.)
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Old 23rd January 2018, 12:26   #1391  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Strange! Yet another bug of BDSup2Sub. :-(

Try to load the ORIGINAL stream (without .2D or .3D extension) in BDSup2Sub++ or in BDSup2Sub.jar. (They are in the toolset folder.) Be sure to enable the Change Frame Rate option and set the FPS Source and FPS Target to 23.976. (It's necessary to avoid little timing problems.) Verify if the forced subtitles have the right color. If it's not the case, retry with the other version of BDSup2Sub. When it's correct, save them as a new temporary BD SUP file. Then, have a look at the end of the 3D-Planes.log file to identify the 3D-Plane to use for your stream, and use BD3D2MK3D -> Subtitle Tools -> Convert Subtitles to 3D (with 3D-Plane/OFS) to convert the 2D stream you have just created.
...
I did as you suggested.








The result is what I need



Quote:
...
I note also that the images above are taken from an OCR program that accepts only DVD SUB/IDX. Converting to that format is not recommended, because it is less good than the original SUP, and it has to reduce the number of colours to 3 (plus the transparent background). That may be the cause of the problem. So, do the conversion in SUP format only, and if you really need the IDX/SUP stream, convert the final 3D SUP to DVD SUB. That should work.
...
I use the Program Subtitle Edit just to check the SUB.

Thank you for your quick help.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 13:28   #1392  |  Link
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Thanks.

Are you sure you have used the latest version of BD3D2MK3D ? I have just reorganized the way the subtitles are processed, and now BDSup2Sub++ is used for the conversion of the original SUP to XML/PNG. As far as I know, only BDSup2Sub.jar has that wrong colour bug, and therefore the conversion of the subtitles to 3D should not exhibit that problem. Can you confirm that you have used a version older than the latest v1.5 to create the project ? If it's the case, I can assume that the new version works well. Otherwise, I will have to check again the new method, and that takes much time...

BTW, I did Geostorm with v1.5, without any problem with the colours of the (French) subtitles. I don't think the German subtitles are different. But perhaps you have another edition of the 3DBD.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 15:10   #1393  |  Link
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Yes, the v1.5.

I have sent you more information via PM.
Now I have made a Tet with all FORCED subtitles.
All forced subtitles are affected in my case ...
Normal subtitles are after conversion O.K.

Last edited by Tenker; 23rd January 2018 at 15:16.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 16:00   #1394  |  Link
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Quote:
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All forced subtitles are affected in my case ...
Normal subtitles are after conversion O.K.
It's even more strange, since the two MKV streams come from the same original SUP stream.

Yet another thing to confirm. Are you sure Java is properly installed on your PC ? You can verify it with Help -> Java Version. You should see the java version number.

The BDSup2Sub.jar is still used to convert the 3D XML/PNG stream back to the BD SUP format (or DVD SUB if you have requested that format). The problem can also come from that operation.

BTW, if you have not deleted the project folder yet, can you verify also the PNG files in the temp folder with the 2D XML/PNG stream ?
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Old 24th January 2018, 02:10   #1395  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
The FS format is very special, and many players do not support it. It has been implemented mainly for some old projectors that do not support SBS or T&B.

Have you tested Full-SBS with your TV ? If it has frame buffers large enough, that's probably the best solution. (It's the case of all UHD (4K) 3D TVs, but unfortunately, many standard HD TVs do not support the Full formats.)
Yes, just tried now. Started the conversion last night after posting here. The file looks good with resolution 1920x2160, encoded at CRF 20 but doesn't play well in mpc-hc or mpc-be.

For some reason it doesn't take the entire width of the screen so after switching the TV to 3D-TAB mode manually, it shows good 3D but only for the center area with vertical black bars on both sides. So left it at that yesterday.

Today tried playing on the TV (LG E6) directly using the Emby app and the TV recognized it and switched to 3D mode automatically but with the vertical bars on the side, just like mpc-hc. So, the TV can handle 3D-TAB it seems but the players, both on PC and TV, are trying to maintain the weird 16:18 aspect ratio instead of 16:9 per eye. Am I missing any key configuration for TAB conversion? I checked the BD option, wonder if that could cause this.

Here is a screenshot.
http://i63.tinypic.com/250mn0n.jpg
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Old 24th January 2018, 08:15   #1396  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
It's even more strange, since the two MKV streams come from the same original SUP stream.

Yet another thing to confirm. Are you sure Java is properly installed on your PC ? You can verify it with Help -> Java Version. You should see the java version number.

The BDSup2Sub.jar is still used to convert the 3D XML/PNG stream back to the BD SUP format (or DVD SUB if you have requested that format). The problem can also come from that operation.

BTW, if you have not deleted the project folder yet, can you verify also the PNG files in the temp folder with the 2D XML/PNG stream ?
1. Java Version is 8.0.1610.12

2. All * .png pictures in the folder
00098.track_4623.Fra.3D_2D
00098.track_4624.Deu.3D_2D
00098.track_4625.Ita.3D_2D
00098.track_4626.Spa.3D_2D
are white

3. Today I converted the BD 3D to a sample on another PC (Win1064Bit with all updates + BD3D2MK3D v1.5).
Unfortunately the same result = all Forced SUB are black.
Standart SUB 00098.track_4610.Deu.3D.sub is white.

Where is the mistake?

Last edited by Tenker; 24th January 2018 at 08:18.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:53   #1397  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexian View Post
So, the TV can handle 3D-TAB it seems but the players, both on PC and TV, are trying to maintain the weird 16:18 aspect ratio instead of 16:9 per eye. Am I missing any key configuration for TAB conversion? I checked the BD option, wonder if that could cause this.[/url]
Unfortunately, there is no well established standard for the aspect ratio of Full-SBS or T&B. Some players want the aspect ratio of a single view, and others want it for the combined views. Try to play with the two settings in Settings -> Full-SBS/T&B Aspect Ratio.
And yes, there are two different aspect ratios. You have to find the good configuration for your players. (I suggest to encode a small clip for your tests.)

Good luck, and please report here what settings give the correct results for your TV and players.
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Last edited by r0lZ; 24th January 2018 at 11:58.
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Old 24th January 2018, 11:57   #1398  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenker View Post
Unfortunately the same result = all Forced SUB are black.
Standart SUB 00098.track_4610.Deu.3D.sub is white.

Where is the mistake?
I'm still investigating the problem. It is very bizarre that the final subtitles are black if the PNG images are correct. And why is that problem limited to forced subtitles only ?

I did Geostorm again yesterday, but unfortunately, BD3D2MK3D has crashed before the subtitle conversions due to a bug I have just introduced in the beta I am currently developing. I have just fixed the bug and will convert Geostorm a third time, with the German forced subs of course. Stay tuned...
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Old 24th January 2018, 12:09   #1399  |  Link
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1000 x r0IZ
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Old 24th January 2018, 16:45   #1400  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0lZ View Post
Unfortunately, there is no well established standard for the aspect ratio of Full-SBS or T&B. Some players want the aspect ratio of a single view, and others want it for the combined views. Try to play with the two settings in Settings -> Full-SBS/T&B Aspect Ratio.
And yes, there are two different aspect ratios. You have to find the good configuration for your players. (I suggest to encode a small clip for your tests.)

Good luck, and please report here what settings give the correct results for your TV and players.
Thanks r0ltZ! Will try again tonight. I just noticed __MUX_3D_OPTIONS.txt has this -

--aspect-ratio
0:16/18

Can I change it to something else (like 0:16/9) and run __MUX_3D.cmd to avoid re-encoding? I am assuming Settings > Full-SBS/TAB Aspect Ratio would do something similar?
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