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Old 24th April 2024, 19:54   #64701  |  Link
Sunspark
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I don't have a HDR screen, so all I can do is just ask questions.. for example, I've seen it said that you need a 1000 nit display to get good results.. do you get blinded when it's a snow scene or desert or something with light tones? Another is, photographs.. I can see photos taken in HDR expose more detail, but they don't look natural. I don't see the world via exposing everything in sight differently then overlaying. So, when it comes to video, do they have unnatural levels of detail?
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Old 24th April 2024, 22:19   #64702  |  Link
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why would you go blind from 1000 nits.
a full moon can reach a couple 1k nits.
a day light lit street is many k of nits.
HDR has just a higher difference between black and white that's it everything else can be done with SDR even that can be done with SDR but it is very stupid.

how can something have unnatural level of detail you are still using your eyes.
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Old 25th April 2024, 04:58   #64703  |  Link
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He means sharpness and contrast and I agree HDR can look pretty tacky. Dolby Vision looks more natural, not sure if that's how it's mastered or just how my TV presents it compared to HDR10. Don't let whatever gamma your screen is "meant" to be at rule your viewing enjoyment. Sometimes you got to fiddle with it to get it looking natural, always seems to be a bit of a problem on OLEDs.
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Old 25th April 2024, 07:46   #64704  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
GoT: The Long Night was totally awesome in HDR... It's actually my go to for testing banding. But as for being watchable, it was absolutely amazing in HDR. It's actually a perfect example of why HDR is really needed in film and TV.

QB
They already reported that the color grading for that scene was a mistake.

It was not intentional, some one dropped the ball.
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Old 25th April 2024, 08:00   #64705  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
He means sharpness and contrast and I agree HDR can look pretty tacky. Dolby Vision looks more natural, not sure if that's how it's mastered or just how my TV presents it compared to HDR10. Don't let whatever gamma your screen is "meant" to be at rule your viewing enjoyment. Sometimes you got to fiddle with it to get it looking natural, always seems to be a bit of a problem on OLEDs.
of cause that's how it's mastered.
hdr or SDR are just a different target.
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Old 25th April 2024, 08:05   #64706  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
I don't have a HDR screen, so all I can do is just ask questions.. for example, I've seen it said that you need a 1000 nit display to get good results.. do you get blinded when it's a snow scene or desert or something with light tones? Another is, photographs.. I can see photos taken in HDR expose more detail, but they don't look natural. I don't see the world via exposing everything in sight differently then overlaying. So, when it comes to video, do they have unnatural levels of detail?
The pipeline to your eye is entirely artificial. What you see is a creative human choice ontop, of, an approximation (image capture).

HDR at this point is only a slight increase in the dynamic range to render highlights and visual flair. It's like a speaker that can play a bit louder.

1000nits isn't very much. Even on an overcast/cloudy day, outdoor ground elements are well over 500 nits. The human iris and electrochemical receptors dynamically alter perceived light.

10,000 nits is where we achieve near reality. In an indoor room, you will never need more than that to express intent.

1000nits snow scenes are also only about 200-300 nits on OLED. So it's not nearly enough to represent real life. LCD light cannons that do 800nits full field are still the more accurate technology in the peak use-cases.

The reason I got an oled is because I realized HDR peak highlights are not used to great effect in the current crop of movie material. So absolute peak brightness is not as useful as off-axis uniformity.

My move away from LCDs is primarily driven by viewing distance. The big films are all coming in on 2.39:1 aspect ratio, a 77 inch is only really as big as a 58 inch in height when fitted. So really you're watching a wider 58 inch screen. That isn't very big. So you have to watch it pretty close around 6 feet.

The closeness to screen makes LCD suffer tramendously because the right eye is receiving a very different image from the left eye. You only have about 10 degrees of gamma / chroma stability on VA-LCD. Then there's the drift at the edges, which is just grey.

Sony's new bravia is aiming to change the status quo back towards LCDs, by combining light cannon + minileds + x-wide angle filter + VA. On previous x-wide LCDs, my opinion is that upclose viewing still has that shimmering 3d glasses look, and off axis contrast ratio still takes a dive.

I honestly still prefer TCL's brute force method. That 20,000 zone thing can't be beat, but it's not like I can afford it.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 25th April 2024 at 08:16.
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Old 25th April 2024, 16:59   #64707  |  Link
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of cause that's how it's mastered.
hdr or SDR are just a different target.
The problem with hdr is the same as in sdr really. We don't really know with any certainty the conditions it was mastered in.

If they had used a bias light, things could look really different.
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Old 25th April 2024, 17:44   #64708  |  Link
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I'm consistently getting presentation glitches, but not dropped frames, in the info display. Is it possible that these are actually caused by the info overlay being open in full screen? I've tried the different queue settings (1-3 etc) to try to eliminate this but can't seem to get playback without these glitches.
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Old 25th April 2024, 19:38   #64709  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Drybonz View Post
I'm consistently getting presentation glitches, but not dropped frames, in the info display. Is it possible that these are actually caused by the info overlay being open in full screen? I've tried the different queue settings (1-3 etc) to try to eliminate this but can't seem to get playback without these glitches.
Which OS, what card? What settings do you use?
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Old 25th April 2024, 23:04   #64710  |  Link
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Which OS, what card? What settings do you use?
Windows 11, 4060, i9, 32gb... but my main question was about the overlay. This happens whether I drop my settings down to the ultra low end or with maxed out settings.
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Old 25th April 2024, 23:43   #64711  |  Link
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I would try to up/downdate nVidia drivers, move to Studio drivers, etc.
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Old 26th April 2024, 02:42   #64712  |  Link
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I would try to up/downdate nVidia drivers, move to Studio drivers, etc.
I'm on the 552.22 drivers. I generally just download the new ones when they come out and almost never see anything about changes to video in the release notes. What are the most recommended driver versions?

*edit* Just switched to the studio drivers. No change.

*edit* I got it sorted. I had to increase the queues and advance frames a lot more than people are generally recommending. After that I can increase my settings and still don't have drops/glitches.

Last edited by Drybonz; 26th April 2024 at 04:47.
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Old 27th April 2024, 18:41   #64713  |  Link
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I have been using d3d11 (hardware encoding turned on) with lav and madvr on my 1080ti and things have been working. I recently swapped 1080ti for 3080ti and same configuration d3d11 + hardware decoding is now freezing after 5 or so min of playback. Switching to dxva2 copy back with hardware encoding doesn't freeze. Any ideas?
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Old 27th April 2024, 20:23   #64714  |  Link
huhn
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know issue don't use d3d11 native with madVR.

btw. that's decoding your GPU can also encode.
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Old 27th April 2024, 22:49   #64715  |  Link
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know issue don't use d3d11 native with madVR.

btw. that's decoding your GPU can also encode.
Thank you!

EDIT: follow up question: is there another mode of d3d11 I can use with madVR (i.e. is there a way to select native vs non-native)? Or should I only use dxva2? I need GPU hardware decoding since my cpu is very old

Last edited by bcec; 27th April 2024 at 23:07. Reason: follow up question
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Old 28th April 2024, 01:08   #64716  |  Link
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Use dxva2 copy-back yeah, it will not be worse picture quality than the d3d11 mode.
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Old 28th April 2024, 13:17   #64717  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drybonz View Post
I'm on the 552.22 drivers. I generally just download the new ones when they come out and almost never see anything about changes to video in the release notes. What are the most recommended driver versions?

*edit* Just switched to the studio drivers. No change.

*edit* I got it sorted. I had to increase the queues and advance frames a lot more than people are generally recommending. After that I can increase my settings and still don't have drops/glitches.
Share your queues settings and frames in advance, it may help others.

Last edited by Siso; 28th April 2024 at 14:37.
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Old 28th April 2024, 13:36   #64718  |  Link
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Originally Posted by bcec View Post
Thank you!

EDIT: follow up question: is there another mode of d3d11 I can use with madVR (i.e. is there a way to select native vs non-native)? Or should I only use dxva2? I need GPU hardware decoding since my cpu is very old
In lav filters you need to change the output device from "Automatic (Native)" and it should use d3d11 copy-back iirc.
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Old 29th April 2024, 00:24   #64719  |  Link
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Share your queues settings and frames in advance, it may help others.
32-16 for the queue and 8 for frames. That was the sweet spot for me, but I don't think there's any magic in those numbers. I think 1-3 is the number that has been suggested so many times (not just here) that we don't really consider using other settings. I had stayed within that 1-3 zone and couldn't solve my problem, so my main takeaway is don't be afraid to bump those up more if it's not working for you.
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Old 29th April 2024, 07:25   #64720  |  Link
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the low queue setting are to avoid unreported frame drop/repeats. 4 is the maximum nvidia supports these days.
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