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Old 16th March 2024, 17:47   #64641  |  Link
Sunspark
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Happy Saturday, a special treat today for tweakers.

A 4K 16-bit PNG greyscale gradient that was programmatically generated WITHOUT dithering, displaying ranges from 1-bit to 12-bit.

https://imgur.com/fxILke1
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Old 16th March 2024, 20:16   #64642  |  Link
anta777
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What is the most profitable video card to buy now for high-quality upscaling?
Which card has the best ratio fps/price?
AMD or Nvidia?
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Old 17th March 2024, 02:39   #64643  |  Link
huhn
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these are used cards and been used means the prices are all over the place.

even a what is the fastest let's say 200 euro GPU is hard to answer but still easier then this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
Happy Saturday, a special treat today for tweakers.

A 4K 16-bit PNG greyscale gradient that was programmatically generated WITHOUT dithering, displaying ranges from 1-bit to 12-bit.

https://imgur.com/fxILke1
ok 12 bit with massive banding i'm supposed to look at what? if my rendering surface is 8 bit the result will be 8 bit or 12 on an 10 bit, 8 bit or 6 bit display because the display doesn't matter even if the image viewer is not dithering the GPU driver will and even if the GPU driver doesn't have to dither the display will. making this totally pointless. getting 12 bit out of a computer start to end is already close to pointless.

here you go have a 16 bit gradient: https://www.bealecorner.org/red/test...ient-16bit.png
now you just take the combination that gives you the least banding does this tell you the bit deep of something no because nothing can for 100%.
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Old 18th March 2024, 20:57   #64644  |  Link
Sunspark
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@huhn The purpose of the file I linked is that it helps you figure out what the bit depth of your panel is, or the display chain. The file you linked doesn't do the same thing, it won't tell someone if they have 6 bit or 8 bit or 10 bit panel, just that they have banding or no banding. It's useful to know what the panel presents as if you turn off dithering in the GPU and player (e.g. 10 bit).
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Old 18th March 2024, 22:21   #64645  |  Link
huhn
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as i said it doesn't because a picture can't do that.

if a image viewer rounds to 8 bit you will get 8 bit on any display even 6 bit panels.
this can at beast show you the bit deep of an image renderer that's it.

the file i linked allows you to test bit deep in details. because the display bit deep doesn't matter anyway only the end result.

you can easily test 6 bit GPU dithering with that file doing 8 or 10 bit on the software side and other such things because it is a perfect banding free 16 bit gradient.

every panel accepts 8 bit input even when it is 6 bit all of them dither this to 6 so it does nothing. even if you manage to find a panel that is not dithering it has to be like 20 years old or broken.
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Old 20th March 2024, 20:14   #64646  |  Link
Amuat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anta777 View Post
What is the most profitable video card to buy now for high-quality upscaling?
Which card has the best ratio fps/price?
AMD or Nvidia?
I'd like to expand and modify this. What are the most important stats on a GPU (VRAM, memory bus, etc.) in terms of madVR performance? Am I looking at different aspects compared to gaming performance, or is it pretty much the same? And what is the relative role of CPU, or RAM for that matter?
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Old 20th March 2024, 22:28   #64647  |  Link
huhn
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gaming is an indicator for the same type of GPU like all 4000 series nvidia card can be roughly compared like this.

make sure it is not ray tracing DLSS and such.

Vram barely matters. 4 G should be able to do most stuff 8 Gb should be able to do anything.
ram also doesn't matter you just need enough so the system works 16 will do fine for HTPC video only.
CPU also don't really matter make sure it has 16 lanes and a modern PCIe spec like 4
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Old 24th March 2024, 04:26   #64648  |  Link
Drybonz
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I have some videos that have some deinterlacing line artifacts that the deinterlace options in MadVR, in any configuration, can't seem to eliminate. Are there any any additional options to watch these with more clarity? Thanks for the help.
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Old 28th March 2024, 16:02   #64649  |  Link
Amuat
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RTX 4060 somewhat broke functionality

I got a new PC with the aforementioned GPU (previously 1070), and I can't use display modes in madVR anymore. It just gives me black screen, no matter if HDR is on or off, or the video is SDR or HDR. In fact when I tried it with HDR off (on SDR video), I didn't just get black screen, but broke everything. I wasn't able to use HDMI optimal mode anymore or the monitor disconnected, only standard mode. In the end the only thing that fixed it was reinstalling Windows from scratch. Now everything works normally again, without the display modes of course, have to manually change to a matching refresh rate every time I watch a video, as the stuttering is horrendous even with VSync applied in the control panel (smooth motion certainly changes things, but not all for the better, really weird feel to it). I also tried to change the color from 10 bit to 12, and my monitor went absolutely berserk. It didn't even respond to remote control commands at first, just a circle flashing like crazy at the corner. I'm lucky I was able after multiple restarting of the PC to change it back when the image sort of came back in this sort of drunken double vision thing with constant flashing.

What is going on here? My monitor certainly supports HDMI 2.1 and I never had any problems with it on my old PC, the cable is one of the best in the market and short enough, and I obviously have Windows updated and all the latest drivers. Games work perfectly on full screen and with the now added VRR and G-Sync support. And here I was thinking how nice it would be to finally have the HDMI support my monitor was made for, and also a little more powerful GPU on top of that. Is there something inherently problematic with the new 40 series, do I have to change some settings in Windows/Nvidia Control Panel/MPC-HC/madVR, or what? The whole thing seems extremely fragile now, and I feel like I'm walking constantly on egg shells in regards to video rendering. Some help would be extremely appreciated.
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Old 29th March 2024, 09:47   #64650  |  Link
Zoltrix
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Hi all,

Been using MadVR for a while with no issues. One of the recent software updates introduced occasional black flickering. See video clip below (around the 7-6 sec mark as the video counts down) for an example. Nothing at all changed on my setup, just an update to MadVR. Since then, I rebuilt the HTPC (fresh OS install), tried a different video card, using Potplayer instead of MPC-BE. Issue still exists.

I can go into more detail. But based on the video clip shown, is there a setting or something to eliminate this flicker?

https://imgur.com/a/R05GPPr
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Old 29th March 2024, 14:53   #64651  |  Link
Sunspark
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Are you able to revert to the previous version of madvr you were using?
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Old 30th March 2024, 01:31   #64652  |  Link
Zoltrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
Are you able to revert to the previous version of madvr you were using?
I did do that initially. But eventually that older version stopped working. You get the messages in MPC-BE telling you a newer version is available, and then the old one stops working altogether. I am guessing that is by design, not sure if there is a way to override or disable that?
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Old 30th March 2024, 12:32   #64653  |  Link
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It seems that madVR 0.92.17 has stopped working for me, the PC becomes unresponsive when seeking video and if I don't restart it I finally get a blue screen with different messages.
I don't know which particular setting is causing the problem because I've gotten bored of restarting the PC to confirm that madVR is indeed the cause of the problem.
The latest Test Build seems to work fine though, not that I like having to worry about having to update it when it stops working, but unfortunately some shaders I use regularly don't work well with the other renderers, not sure why .
The only good news is that it is not a hardware problem, which is what worried me at first.

EDIT: I just remembered that you have to select the floating point format to use the shaders with the other renderers, so goodbye madVR, I think the only thing I'm going to miss is debanding.
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Old 30th March 2024, 14:16   #64654  |  Link
Sunspark
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It must be a video driver or OS update issue.. I am still on .92.17 and no issues, but my video driver hasn't been updated in years and my OS is frozen too.

However, don't be so sure that you don't have a hardware problem. A couple years ago I did have a RAM issue which I only noticed when backups weren't completing properly.. after fully testing the memory and replacing the problematic stick backups were then fine again.
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Old 30th March 2024, 15:04   #64655  |  Link
Siso
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Use beta 112 or 113, they don't have expiration date. Also IMHO I wouldn't ditch madvr for any other video renderer. The alternatives are not that good at all.
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Old 30th March 2024, 22:51   #64656  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexkral View Post
It seems that madVR 0.92.17 has stopped working for me, the PC becomes unresponsive when seeking video and if I don't restart it I finally get a blue screen with different messages.
I don't know which particular setting is causing the problem because I've gotten bored of restarting the PC to confirm that madVR is indeed the cause of the problem.
The latest Test Build seems to work fine though, not that I like having to worry about having to update it when it stops working, but unfortunately some shaders I use regularly don't work well with the other renderers, not sure why .
The only good news is that it is not a hardware problem, which is what worried me at first.

EDIT: I just remembered that you have to select the floating point format to use the shaders with the other renderers, so goodbye madVR, I think the only thing I'm going to miss is debanding.
but a blue screen is never a software issue at least not a software like madVR or a video player.

that's an issue with the GPU driver or the OS.
a video renderer does not trigger a blue screen the blue screen should not happen. a crash would be different.

the deband in madVR should be pretty much the same as in mpv they are both based on the same deband algorithm.
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Old 31st March 2024, 02:45   #64657  |  Link
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Stupid question but what are the best settings with MadVR software with a RTX 4090 ?
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Old 31st March 2024, 08:10   #64658  |  Link
Schwartz
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It's subjective. Depends on source material and screen size also.

NGU for doubling, Spline for downsizing, Jinc for upsizing and Bilateral for Chroma are good baselines though.
For low-quality and SD stuff you can also do softer scalers, then add some post-processing.

Error Diffusion isn't worth it for how expensive it is (IMO).
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Old 31st March 2024, 09:00   #64659  |  Link
Alexkral
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Quote:
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but a blue screen is never a software issue at least not a software like madVR or a video player.

that's an issue with the GPU driver or the OS.
a video renderer does not trigger a blue screen the blue screen should not happen. a crash would be different.

the deband in madVR should be pretty much the same as in mpv they are both based on the same deband algorithm.
Well, it's not the first time I got a blue screen just a little after Windows became unresponsive, for different reasons and on different hardware, so that also seems like a reason for the OS to trigger it. In this case the message was sometimes WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR and other times Unexpected Store Exception. I have checked the SSD, the RAM and the rest of the hardware without finding any errors. I was using an old GPU driver but updating it didn't fix the issue. So yes, an OS update for sure. Everything seems to work fine now, except when I specifically use the MPC-HC seek bar with madVR.

As for mpv, I am convinced that it is the way to go for multiple reasons, but first I'll need to port my shaders to the mpv format.
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Old 31st March 2024, 09:16   #64660  |  Link
Zoltrix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Use beta 112 or 113, they don't have expiration date. Also IMHO I wouldn't ditch madvr for any other video renderer. The alternatives are not that good at all.
Thanks for the tip. I found a download of madVRhdrMeasure113, is that what you are referring too?

I'm assuming that is quite old?

I did try the Reinhard tone mapping in VLC as an alternative to MadVR, and it looked pretty good.
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