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Old 20th February 2024, 14:25   #64581  |  Link
clsid
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Originally Posted by Siso View Post
Then why does "very high" exist in the scaling options?
There are several settings in madvr that have massive performance penalty for barely no quality gain. I guess they never got removed due to all the "I want the absolute best quality and I don't care if it takes a terawatt of power" nerds.

Madvr himself has once said that difference between high and very high is literally just a few pixel values, and not necessarily better values.

Some general rules for beginners:
- Do not use NGU very high
- Do not use any difficult algo for Chroma
- Do not uncheck everything on "trade quality ..."
- Once you start touching any of the more advanced settings, do actually compare if you see any visual improvement.
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Old 20th February 2024, 14:29   #64582  |  Link
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Some general rules for beginners:
- Do not use any difficult algo for Chroma
- Do not uncheck everything on "trade quality ..."
Can you give more specific info about these two rules?
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Old 20th February 2024, 14:40   #64583  |  Link
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i didn't have a single card in my life that doesn't have this problem.
and no as long as the card is within spec it can ruin the power signal as much as it pleases. modern GPU and especially zen CPU switch the Volt in such a fast pace no signal will keep it's integrity.

filtering the signal is not the job of the GPU. the digital signal is still bit perfect.
I'll try it on my gpu, since it's made by AMD if I get the noise too.
Well, the output signal has to be within hdmi spec, that's the job of the graphics card, otherwise the picture would drop out too in addition to sound issues; switching power levels probably has the most impact here, but that shouldn't affect madvr too much since it is a more constant load than gaming. So it's kind of weird issue.
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Old 20th February 2024, 16:15   #64584  |  Link
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I'll try it on my gpu, since it's made by AMD if I get the noise too.
Well, the output signal has to be within hdmi spec, that's the job of the graphics card, otherwise the picture would drop out too in addition to sound issues; switching power levels probably has the most impact here, but that shouldn't affect madvr too much since it is a more constant load than gaming. So it's kind of weird issue.
i hope you get nothing.

madVR is a very inconstant load. the insane number of shaders resulting in a load like CS go at 1000 fps.
if you really want to trigger such issue try mpv in benchmark mode.
dither=no
audio=no
untimed=yes
video-sync=display-desync
vulkan-swap-mode=mailbox
opengl-swapinterval=0
osd-msg1="FPS: ${estimated-display-fps}"

actually i could go and do recording of all of this i have the hardware to do so or only miss small optimal stuff like spdif cables. the problem this is extremely time consuming to do so and barely anyone will care.
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Old 20th February 2024, 18:31   #64585  |  Link
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Can you give more specific info about these two rules?
- Don't use NGU for Chroma. Chroma scaling is much less important than image scaling. There is plenty of advice for Chroma scalers to be found in this topic.
- Don't touch anything at all on "Trade quality ..." page.

And also good rule:
- Start with basic settings. Check rendertime (Ctrl+J). Then adjust settings one by one and observe if it improves quality and what the effect on rendertime is.
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Old 20th February 2024, 18:37   #64586  |  Link
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I'm on rtx 4070 ti, even with all settings maxed out I can reach ~ 15-20ms rendering times. I was asking cause there maybe some settings I can adjust, I'm not those freaks who pump all settings to the max.

Last edited by Siso; 20th February 2024 at 18:45.
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Old 21st February 2024, 05:22   #64587  |  Link
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If you're not doing tonemapping there's not much of a benefit to going beyond 3060/3070 levels of performance for most of today's content. Some people will want more.

I think a standard 5060 (4060 Ti levels of performance?) would do very well for anything I need in future since the standard features aren't being updated any more and I'm still primarily playing only 24 fps content, you can run settings that look great at around the 20ms odd frame time. Not hard to reach essentially peak madVR these days, go back twelve odd years and it was a bit different.

Last edited by ryrynz; 21st February 2024 at 06:33.
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Old 21st February 2024, 20:38   #64588  |  Link
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For those wondering since it's been awhile, the default installation checkboxes on "trade quality for performance" are the first 9 from "optimize" to "compromise".

I don't recall a measurement study where the impact of any of them has been quantified, other than the scale chroma separately one which is needed for 4K.

I did look at the subtitles one, and it was subtly blurrier. It wouldn't be noticed at a distance on a TV. On a monitor at closer range? Maybe.
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Old 21st February 2024, 20:43   #64589  |  Link
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the compromise HDR stuff has massive effects on image quality and performance.
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Old 22nd February 2024, 17:59   #64590  |  Link
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I tried several different types of videos, and at least for me having those default options on or off makes absolutely no difference whatsoever on performance. Changing chroma from NGU at medium to Cubic (with no filters) makes a slight difference, but I'm not convinced it's worth it. Anyway the difference is so small that in my case it doesn't enable me to exchange the freed resources to anything more meaningful.
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Old 22nd February 2024, 18:07   #64591  |  Link
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The important lesson is just to do a comparison before enabling any of the more advanced settings. Certainly for the majority of people who have weaker hardware. Then make informed decision.
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Old 24th February 2024, 09:11   #64592  |  Link
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- Don't use NGU for Chroma. Chroma scaling is much less important than image scaling.
What would you recommend for Chroma scaling? Jinc?

Edit: don't have performance issues/dropped frames on my RTX 4060 Ti but I do notice presentation glitches when the processing pipeline gets too complicated e.g. NGU image upscaling first and then SSim downscaling when playing 1080p videos on my 1440p display. Chroma upscaling is set to NGU Anti-alias very high quality.

Thanks!

Last edited by gfxnow; 24th February 2024 at 09:15.
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Old 24th February 2024, 11:00   #64593  |  Link
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What would you recommend for Chroma scaling? Jinc?
Chroma upscaling is set to NGU Anti-alias very high quality.
Ideally you should've read the earlier posts just made days ago.. Very High is a complete waste of resources and for chroma it's even more so.
Jinc is good AFAIC, but feel free to look at the others and compare, some people prefer sharper.
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Old 24th February 2024, 15:26   #64594  |  Link
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Jinc and super-xbr are popular choices for chroma.
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Old 24th February 2024, 19:57   #64595  |  Link
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Hi, when apply 3d lut BT709 in madvr , do I have to set color and gamma - enable gamma processing or just leave it empty?
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Old 24th February 2024, 21:12   #64596  |  Link
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you leave it off.
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Old 25th February 2024, 23:03   #64597  |  Link
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I've been using DSPlayer Kodi for a while now, but several months ago I began getting a flashing/pixellation on overlays when the video was paused. It's good for about 2-3 seconds and then half of the overlay will disappear, the rest has diagonal holes in it which flashing off and on, etc. Anybody seen anything like this before or know how I can fix it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjIQ2mkz26I

Edit: the fix for this was to set "prefer maximum performance" in the nVidia settings. Must have occurred when I upgraded graphics cards.

Last edited by Mordred; 26th February 2024 at 19:42.
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Old 26th February 2024, 04:31   #64598  |  Link
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Graphic card degradation ?
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Old 26th February 2024, 05:23   #64599  |  Link
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Graphic card degradation ?
Not sure what you're asking.

I've got an nVidia 4070 that I upgraded from a 3060. Unfortunately I'm not sure if this problem started happening after a video driver/madvr update or when swapping to the new card as I'm not sure I noticed it right away. It's been going on for several months though.
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Old 26th February 2024, 17:50   #64600  |  Link
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What would you recommend for Chroma scaling? Jinc?
Sorry to butt in, but based on what I have tried out, the best chroma scaler has been NGU Anti-Alias Low. With the Medium setting, it's so marginally better that it requires pausing the video on areas with deep reds and pulling out a magnifying glass to find a difference between it and Low. Any setting above Medium is placebo for chroma scaling.

Another great chroma scaler is Super XBR, but it sometimes adds a fuzzy oversharp ringing on chroma edges which can be noticeable with anime and cartoons. Dropping down the sharpness setting with Super XBR can help reduce the ringing. Setting the sharpness to 75 or 50 is recommended, anything lower I would not.

As for Jinc, Lanczos, and Spline, I found those to not be as ideal when compared to the image doubler variants. They may be sharp, but those three introduced ringing which not even the anti-ringing filter could eliminate completely.

Bilateral can be insanely good or quite bad. I have seen it fix aliased reds, but also bleed chroma into outlines where there should have not been any color, such as black outlines in anime and cartoons.
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