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13th August 2017, 15:24 | #322 | Link |
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well the LG OLED screens are more known for not dithering at all than doing heavy dithering.
http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/c...ding-large.jpg http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/a...ding-large.jpg |
13th August 2017, 19:38 | #323 | Link | ||
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Banding was a huge problem when setting it up but the banding does not mean it is not dithering, only that it is bad at it. When I set it to 6 bit in madVR the display's banding goes away pretty much entirely, even with default settings, and when set to 10 bit the banding is more common (I can see more of the steps). Banding test patterns all look very different at 6, 8, or 10 bit so I am sure the display is receiving different bit depths but it seems to have no idea how to go about displaying them without banding. Rounded looks much worse all the time, each step is visible and sharper, so it is not simply rounding anywhere. How do you get visible banding with a 16-bit gradient dithered to 10-bit on a 0-95 cd/m^2 display?!? I had to tweak contrast and brightness a lot before finding settings that minimize the banding, which helped but still didn't eliminate it completely. I also have to be careful when watching real content and blaming banding on the display, some blurays I thought were fine turned out to have a lot of banding while others do not. If high debanding in madVR fixes it I blame the source but if it doesn't change it noticeably I blame the display. For my final calibration the contrast ratio was reported as 9528804659:1 by CalMAN, which does expose banding in the source. All together this display does look very good, the black level and color saturation are both amazing, but banding is its major weakness.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 13th August 2017 at 19:55. |
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13th August 2017, 23:08 | #324 | Link |
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Just a quick update re 3D, nVidia and MadVR.
The key to get this working seems to be to enable steroscopic 3D in the nVdia drivers while in 1080p, run the nVidia 3D Setup, and then set the desktop to whichever resolution/frame rate you actually use. My default is 4K@23p. MPC-BE/LAV/MadVR switch to 1080p3DFP to play the film automatically. They don't go back to 4K23 automatically, I have to leave MyMovies for that to happen. Sometimes they don't go back to 2D either, but in that case I only have to start playing a 2D movie. The experimental custom rs tool Madshi made available recently has done wonders for my 2D bluray playback: I went from one frame repeat every 3-5 minutes to 1 frame drop every 2 hours or more, so very happy with that. I still have to play a bit with the settings to find what works best with my new 1080 Ti, I really like the bluray to 4K upscaling using NGU Anti-Alias. Overall super happy with the upgrade to the 1080 Ti from my HD7870. Thanks again for all the help.
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14th August 2017, 17:39 | #325 | Link |
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Thanks for the update on 3D!
I too have been very happy with NGU Anti-Alias.
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madVR options explained |
27th August 2017, 08:11 | #327 | Link |
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Finally updated for 92.2. A lot of fixes along with the amazing new custom resolution tool in display modes.
Also DX11 native DXVA2 decoding, no quality loss but still no IVTC or black bar detection. I also rebuilt my settings, they are still the same settings but I reset to default with the new version and reconfigured from scratch. There were some people reporting crashes with old settings files (and even those looks to have been fixed in 92.2) and while I didn't have any issues I figured a fresh start was the safest option.
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madVR options explained |
27th August 2017, 15:22 | #328 | Link |
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Native DXVA2 decoding doesn't show the chroma blurring when DXVA2 chroma scaling is used at the same time.
Since DXVA2 scaling seems to equal some kind of bicubic on Nvidia, it's actually not too bad afterall and dimensions better than bilinear. There don't seem to be any other quality drawbacks with recent madVR version on Windows 10 Creators Update, no banding problems. New DX11 decoding API btw. isn't called DXVA anymore, afaik, but D3D11VA. |
27th August 2017, 18:01 | #330 | Link |
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Definitely not limited to 8bits with nVidia. I have a custom mode running for 4K23p @ 12bits 4:4:4
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27th August 2017, 18:52 | #331 | Link | |
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Can you set the custom mode to be 12-bit in the Nvidia control panel? I can also get 12-bit RGB to work but I have to be in a 12-bit mode already before switching to it. I do not have the option to set the custom mode to 12-bit in the control panel.
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Good point, I will edit my entry to reflect my limited knowledge of the situation.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 27th August 2017 at 19:49. |
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27th August 2017, 20:48 | #332 | Link | |
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dxva: https://abload.de/img/dxvaoeob0.png bilinear: https://abload.de/img/bilineary8of4.png bicubic: https://abload.de/img/bicubicz8qci.png they are all the same frame the shift comes from the scaler. it is as bad as ever and bilinear is doing better. |
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27th August 2017, 21:11 | #333 | Link |
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wth is this example even supposed to portray? It's far off any reality.
It's completely nonsense to think chroma would be blurrier than with bilinear. software decoding + bilinear: DXVA2 native decoding + bilinear: DXVA2 native decoding + DXVA2 scaling: Oh, and bilinear downscaling also gives you one aliased mess for every target which is not exactly 1/4 or 1/16 etc. of source resolution btw... |
28th August 2017, 01:35 | #334 | Link |
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so this BD is not a real source? yes chroma doesn't matter much for this image but that doesn't change what it is doing to the chroma channel.
what this is suppose to show? obviously that there is something terrible wrong with DXVA chroma scaling. just to make that clear i was only using DXVA chroma scaling nothing else in that image there is a reason i add the OSD. and it is nonesense to think it is blurrier than bilinear? it clearly is in this case... and about banding DXVA is still using low bitdeep and is adding banding you can check this with the BW.avi. where this will be notable is a different story but still it is still terrible at it. |
28th August 2017, 02:22 | #335 | Link | ||
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So what does it prove? Only that a soft chroma scaler softens the image here. There is already lots of aliasing in the source, and of course a soft scaler has a strong influence on that. If there was a real problem with chroma blur & DXVA scaling, my cartoon example would look like blurry garbage. But actually, both chroma and luma are way sharper than with bilinear (it's 640x368 -> 2532x1440). I have the suspicion that DXVA2 scaling uses different sharpness levels for different source resolutions. I tried a 720p non-cartoon sample a few days back and here DXVA2 scaling behaved mostly like madVR's softcubic60. This is not bad quality, it may be just not to your likings. Quote:
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28th August 2017, 05:19 | #336 | Link |
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my screens are Cr rendered as Y.
it's an madVR feature to look up the chroma channels directly. so if i want to know it DXVA got fixed i just use that. but the real issue is that DXVA is known to ruin the chroma channel on nvidia cards and in my test nothing has changed so it is still bad in my book. and now about your "10" bit image. first of all it is pretty much a solid color so a chroma scale is not adding a lot if at all banding here. second the source has banding you can see it in the 10 bit parts all 1024 steps and this get's removed by madVRs debanding making it a really bad test pattern for banding. that fact that the 8 bit is rounded is the nail in the coffin not a fair comparison at all. |
28th August 2017, 10:36 | #337 | Link | |
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Of course I have to select "use nVidia colour settings" not "use default color settings" for this to work, but that's the same with non-custom modes so you should already have this selected.
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28th August 2017, 11:43 | #338 | Link |
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Correction: I was still under 385.28. I updated to 385.41 and I now have the same behaviour (can't select 12 bits from custom mode).
Reverting to 385.28
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28th August 2017, 15:03 | #339 | Link | |||
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Especially since we are talking about DXVA scaling for low-end GPUs (it's called compromise). Quote:
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28th August 2017, 15:08 | #340 | Link |
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That isn't an inherent property of DXVA scaling or anything, its just an artifact if you try to access the 4:2:0 "untouched", because there is no 4:2:0 texture format in D3D9, but when you use DXVA to upscale chroma (or the entire image) anyway, then this doesn't really apply. Its not like the chroma is blurred first and then upscaled, thats not how it works. The method madVR uses to try to extract 4:2:0 subsampled chroma just causes blurring.
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LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders Last edited by nevcairiel; 28th August 2017 at 15:10. |
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