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Old 12th March 2007, 23:01   #41  |  Link
HyperHacker
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I've heard Pentium was named Pentium because it was ruled Intel couldn't copyright 80586, because it's just a number. This does raise an interesting point. Where does something stop being a number and start being a piece of data that can be copyrighted? The Windows XP install CD, for example, really just holds a very big number...
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Old 12th March 2007, 23:14   #42  |  Link
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@Fahzuu

Their competitors abound in the various programmers and freeware developed by our members, who, thankfully, do openly discuss the technical aspects of AACS and advance all our learning.

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Old 13th March 2007, 08:47   #43  |  Link
Fahzuu
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@Fahzuu

Their competitors abound in the various programmers and freeware developed by our members, who, thankfully, do openly discuss the technical aspects of AACS and advance all our learning.

Regards
Yes, sure you're right in principal, but I don't see these various programmers being a real competition yet.
Even though they probably outnumber the Slysoft developers by far - they still aren't there, where AnyDVD already was weeks ago.
Slysoft started working on Bluray and - bang, 1 week later also hat cracked the region code.
So far - being interested in that myself - I could only find one thread here, where some people started digging into this and sometime later silently gave up.
AnyDVD was a "hands-off" utility from the start, while BackupHDDVD/Bluray now slowly is getting there (at least should - now that the player key is available, haven't checked yet whether this has been incorporated into the tools).

Don't get this the wrong way: the "various programmers, who openly discuss the technical aspects" are doing great. But I see SlySoft doing even greater. So all I'm saying is: that is no real competition at this point (personally, having been given the choice between the free stuff from here and the payware from SlySoft, I clearly don't regret having payed for AnyDVD).

But you are well right about the learning part. I found the discussion about the subset-difference stuff very enlightening - though I still didn't get it all :-)

Now we'll have to see, what happens, when the first set of keys gets revoked and WinDVD and PowerDVD start hiding the new keys better. I'm pretty sure, that it's going to be over with dumping them from memory...
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Old 13th March 2007, 10:40   #44  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Fahzuu View Post
Yes, sure you're right in principal, but I don't see these various programmers being a real competition yet.
Even though they probably outnumber the Slysoft developers by far - they still aren't there, where AnyDVD already was weeks ago.
Slysoft started working on Bluray and - bang, 1 week later also hat cracked the region code.
(lots of SlySoft fanboyism snipped)

Fahzuu: You are welcome to use the tools you want. Now we all know that you like AnyDVD - no shame in that. Go ahead, and keep on using it - no goon squad from doom9 forums will come at your door forcing you to use DumpHD or BackupBluRay. Further discussion of the "competition" is not productive - we don't care about "competition" because we don't see AnyDVD as competition. I suspect that members of this forum are alot more interested in making their software better, easier to use and more feature-full, then in trying to change your opinion about things.
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Old 13th March 2007, 11:06   #45  |  Link
Fahzuu
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(lots of SlySoft fanboyism snipped)
well, you did in fact leave most of my fanboyism there after all, thanks

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Further discussion of the "competition" is not productive - we don't care about "competition" because we don't see AnyDVD as competition.
I was merely explaining, why I think that SlySoft did not tell exactly why their product will not suffer from key revocation. This argument was used to - in my eyes, being a SlySoft fanboy - miscredit this statement as marketing blabla. I tend to believe, that what they say is true, so I just couldn't leave that uncommented.
I also explained, why Slysoft also probably doesn't think of you as a competition, I never wanted to start a discussion about competition at all. With competitors I meant other commercial products that might come in the future.

So these are two different things in my opinion: Slysoft created a tool that can be very easily used to backup discs or play them on non-HDCP equipment, while your work here is more of an educational sort.
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Old 13th March 2007, 12:40   #46  |  Link
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Irrespective, we here at Doom9 work to disclose things and learn. What other spin can you put on it except marketing blah when a company says "trust us, it'll be OK and we don't wanna tell you why, just hand over the bux".

Thanks, but no thanks, I'll stick with the stuff in these 2 threads.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123282
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=123311

Now, I'd prefer not to have to go back and forwards with the Kool Aid Club (aka Fanatic Any DVD users) and we are getting OT. So, let's end it by saying, "each to his own" and "live and let live".

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Old 13th March 2007, 16:00   #47  |  Link
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Originally Posted by HyperHacker View Post
I've heard Pentium was named Pentium because it was ruled Intel couldn't copyright 80586, because it's just a number. This does raise an interesting point. Where does something stop being a number and start being a piece of data that can be copyrighted? The Windows XP install CD, for example, really just holds a very big number...
You are confusing copyright with trademark - a very common mistake. Numbers cannot be registered as trademarks, as in case of 486 or 4711 (the original Eau de Cologne from Cologne - today only the "4711" picture is registered as trademark, but not the number itself).

However, numbers can very well be copyrighted, as long as as they represent meaningful and creative content. Of course, the question of whether an encryption key indeed represents meaningful and creative content is highly controversal.
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Old 13th March 2007, 16:11   #48  |  Link
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...Slysoft started working on Bluray and - bang, 1 week later also hat cracked the region code...
If SlySoft would do it before Muslix's first post, your argument would hold.
Since it's not the case - it doesn't.

Now it's more like Rambus in the RAM market...

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Old 13th March 2007, 21:16   #49  |  Link
Fahzuu
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If SlySoft would do it before Muslix's first post, your argument would hold.
Since it's not the case - it doesn't.
Ok, that might be a point.
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Old 13th March 2007, 21:34   #50  |  Link
arnezami
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Whoever has been following the our progressive understanding about AACS must know by now that in order to decrypt AACS protected content (like AnyDVD does) you need Device/Processing Keys and a Host Private Key.

Now if they claim they will be able to do this in the future this can only mean they feel confident they will be able to get these keys in time (before discs get released that revoke stuff). Whether they will be able to do this is a different matter. They were first at finding Processing/Device Keys and a Host Private Key (there is no point denying that, they earn that credit) so they might feel very confident now. Of course muslix64 started it all and probably inspired us and the creators of AnyDVD.

The only thing I care about is that we continue to focus on being a step ahead of the AACS LA and that everybody is going to be and will stay well informed about all that is involved regarding the encryption schemes used in aacs.

So can we please leave the AnyDVD issue for now . I'm getting a little bored by it. Its a pretty good program (especially the integration into the drive communication and ability to change files etc) but its closed source and that settles it for me.

Regards,

arnezami

Last edited by arnezami; 13th March 2007 at 21:36.
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