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Old 30th November 2016, 22:33   #41041  |  Link
jkauff
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?
I would guess that those of us with fairly powerful GPUs haven't even tried it. Even doubling a Blu-ray can be done with NGU-Medium on my GTX 1060.
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Old 30th November 2016, 22:48   #41042  |  Link
Anima123
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've heard a lot of feedback about the new settings dialog organization. Thanks, guys.

But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?
I use NGU-Low a lot with my old nVidia 640M, and am happy with image quality it brings with low GPU consumption.

Low in current version can playback 720p -> 1080p with a little bit higher rendering time than 576p -> 1080p with Old Low.

Considering AR of consequent downscaling cannot be disabled anymore, it would have been more faster.
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Old 30th November 2016, 23:41   #41043  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?
I need to be able to quadruple with it in order to judge. This is not possible with the new profiling.
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Old 30th November 2016, 23:51   #41044  |  Link
thighhighs
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Originally Posted by kalston View Post
Multi-GPU is a complicated mess and everyone is giving up on it for a reason - game devs and AMD/nvidia are all dropping the ball. Only DX12 could save it but that requires extra work (and training) for the game/app developers. I think only ONE game has dx12 multi GPU support as of right now (the last Deus EX IIRC? and that's not a really well optimized game to begin with).

Just look at how few recent releases support multi-GPU and how bad it is most of the time when they actually do. Poor scaling, bugs, (micro)stuttering etc...

This is even more ridiculous than asking to support VRR for video playback IMO.
Sounds like SLI always bad. Games like BF4 have perfectly multi-gpu scaling and smooth gameplay.
I don't play all latest games, some games support sli, some not, latest watch dogs 2 support it. And madvr not sli-friendly now, i get better performance when sli disabled, do not see anything ridiculous here, some would like see changes here if it is technically possible.
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Old 30th November 2016, 23:51   #41045  |  Link
Warner306
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Haven't had to use NGU low, other than for chroma upscaling. Hard to tell if it's working well or not.
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Old 1st December 2016, 00:12   #41046  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Haven't had to use NGU low, other than for chroma upscaling. Hard to tell if it's working well or not.
Based on my own tests super-xbr AR (100+) is a better choice for chroma over NGU low at least right now quality wise.
NGU low comes off a bit messy for chroma. The 'very high' is quite nice though, but the same issues are there with it as for luma, it brings unwanted details out into the open.
Once it gets it's luma guidance it might just become the best overall chroma upscaler but the performance impact is significant in comparison to other options.
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Old 1st December 2016, 00:28   #41047  |  Link
fedpul
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've heard a lot of feedback about the new settings dialog organization. Thanks, guys.

But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?
madshi, I have set it for my dad's notebook SD profile and I think it is a good option for low power graphics or integrated cards. Quality is really good for the performance hit. (HD 4000 on i7). But I haven't done comparisons.
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Old 1st December 2016, 00:34   #41048  |  Link
fedpul
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Originally Posted by Neo-XP View Post
Exactly.

Here you can see a comparison between Jinc, Lanczos3, Bicubic150 and SSim1D100 for downscaling after 2x supersampling with NGU:



And zoomed:



Make your choice. For me it is Lanczos3 because Bicubic150 has too much aliasing and Jinc is a little bit too soft.
Bicubic 150 and SSIM 1D are both sharper than Jinc and Lanczos 3. For them all I think I prefer Bicubic 150 even more than SSIM 1D looking at the zoomed pics. But please think that you were not be able to notice such differences between them at normal viewing conditions. Plus Jinc costs a lot ms for downscaling compared to SSIM 1D and even more with Bicubic 150.
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Old 1st December 2016, 01:14   #41049  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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I think the goal for madshi is to make NGU just an option like Jinc without any drop down menus for upscaling. It'll likely all be automatic at some point and the OSD will likely remove any info on the downscaling steps involved. The quality needs to improve a bit more before that can happen. It's just too sharp at the moment and needs a variable level of soften edges depending on the level of NGU.

I actually wouldn't mind it being that way and behaving more as a scaler than a doubler, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Old 1st December 2016, 01:47   #41050  |  Link
har3inger
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NGU low is a definite improvement over the other "dumb" scalers (jinc, bicubic, lanczos). I think it's the go-to scaler for low-demand laptop playback.

Otherwise, if you can run it, I find NGU high (the new high, old medium) is a breakpoint where the image becomes noticeably better.
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Old 1st December 2016, 02:30   #41051  |  Link
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I see there's been a lot of discussion since I last posted about my issue but I have done some more testing, this time manually putting my PC into sleep. The results are different than when my monitor first goes to sleep and the PC sleeps afterwards.

With MadVR and zoom player or mpc-hc the results are the same.

If the PC does go to standby and return the video is always green and I have to restart the player for it to work again.

With mpc-hc using the EVR it doesn't happen.

It also doesn't happen 100% all the time I manually sleep but does when I leave my computer to sleep (monitor turned off first).

The bsod I get that reboots the PC before the PC is allowed to go into sleep points to ntoskrnl.exe 14a510 but when the PC bsods on return from sleep the bsod points to dxgmms2 blaming the nvidia driver.

For a while I didn't notice this was related to madVR so I've carried out various steps to solve it already. I've made sure there's no memory fault with my PC by running memtest86 for 48h, I've checked with prime 95 for 24h and I've monitored temperatures to make sure they aren't too high. First thing I did was do a complete clean install of the nvidia drivers.

I'm not sure why I have this silly problem but it would be great to get to the bottom of it.

Anyone have an idea what it could be? Is my graphics card faulty?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
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Old 1st December 2016, 04:22   #41052  |  Link
Sunspark
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Catmull-rom is the same as Bicubic 50 which is soft. There is nothing wrong with using Bicubic 60 for chroma upscaling. I use it by choice with jinc for luma because it looks better than jinc/jinc to me, and also because when it comes to colour, catmull-rom and bicubic are the chromas that match the colours of nearest-neighbour. I don't know about the newest algos as I never tested and they require more gpu anyway. The goal is not to make stuff sharp as a tack. When image editing, good quality unsharp masking after downscaling stops at the point where the sharpen just barely becomes visible via preview on and off, this is usually on an case by case basis for dialing in the numbers so I do agree with the selection of 60 here, because 75 was already on the sharper side.
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Old 1st December 2016, 04:53   #41053  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
Anyone have an idea what it could be? Is my graphics card faulty?
I'd start with the system BIOS first. Reset it and test then look for an updated BIOS for the motherboard and GPU.
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Old 1st December 2016, 08:52   #41054  |  Link
Backflash
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Originally Posted by Dodgexander View Post
If the PC does go to standby and return the video is always green and I have to restart the player for it to work again.
I had DP to miniDP and screen always bugged on me if I left player on pause and left pc to switch screen off. Screen didn't wake up 3 out of 10 times. I got DP-DP cable it went away(for now), so I think it's driver issue in my case. It is also happening only on w10.
Just do not leave player running when you need to step away from PC.
Also it's generally bad to let PC go to sleep, it somewhat works for laptops because battery life, but there is no need to do that with PC. So many things can go wrong with modern GPU drivers, probably that's what happening, you are not saving word document into RAM, it's a bit more complicated with rendering I think.
Set it do disable display and never go to sleep, most safe option.
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Old 1st December 2016, 08:58   #41055  |  Link
StinDaWg
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
I've heard a lot of feedback about the new settings dialog organization. Thanks, guys.

But I don't remember anybody commenting yet on the new NGU-Low quality level. It's faster but softer than the old NGU-Low. But is it still "acceptable"? How's sharpness, aliasing, ringing etc for you? Is it worthy of the "NGU" sticker?
I think NGU-Low is great for 720p->1080p upscaling. Switching between NGU-Low and NGU-Very High I see little to no difference with 720p content, except for a very very (did I say very?) small increase in sharpness.

I am now able to run NGU-Low on 720p60 videos, where I couldn't use any NGU levels before with my HD 7770. It's also significantly faster than Jinc+SR2.

There is a bigger difference with SD videos. There is a noticeable quality increase between NGU-Low and NGU-Med, with then smaller increases all the way up to Very High. Surprisingly I am able to use NGU-High on 480p60 videos with render times around 10ms, so it's not much of an issue.

If you are somehow able to make NGU-Low sharper without increasing gpu usage, that would be good though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarrettH View Post
Maybe Catmull should be used in place of bicubic150? I've never a/b them though. I thought we were all happy with Catmull, especially as as downscaler, for a long time
Please no. Bicubic 150 AR is a very fast and good alternative to SSIM. It's even better in some ways judging from the pics posted above (we are talking microscopic zooming levels anyways, in practical terms they are almost the same). After upscaling good content with NGU, I don't want to then make it blurrier with Catmull-Rom.

Last edited by StinDaWg; 1st December 2016 at 09:06.
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Old 1st December 2016, 09:23   #41056  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Backflash View Post
I had DP to miniDP and screen always bugged on me if I left player on pause and left pc to switch screen off. Screen didn't wake up 3 out of 10 times. I got DP-DP cable it went away(for now), so I think it's driver issue in my case. It is also happening only on w10.
Just do not leave player running when you need to step away from PC.
Also it's generally bad to let PC go to sleep, it somewhat works for laptops because battery life, but there is no need to do that with PC. So many things can go wrong with modern GPU drivers, probably that's what happening, you are not saving word document into RAM, it's a bit more complicated with rendering I think.
Set it do disable display and never go to sleep, most safe option.
Yes, I have a similar problem. madVR seems to lock the player in memory, you can't end the process and you have to literally turn the power off and back on again because it locks such that you can't restart (restart just hangs).

I think I might start another thread specifically targetting any issues with madVR and the hardware involved. I will emphatically state the purpose of the thread so people don't try an argue that it works fine for them so there isn't a problem. From what I have found, the issues seem to be more prevalent on Geforce GTX 10xx models and Radeon RX models (the 400 series). The old R9-280X worked beautifully and on affriend's R9-280X (different other hardware though) runs beautifully with similar settings, so it will be interesting with the responses.
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Old 1st December 2016, 09:27   #41057  |  Link
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I think I might start another thread specifically targetting any issues with madVR and the hardware involved. I will emphatically state the purpose of the thread so people don't try an argue that it works fine for them so there isn't a problem. From what I have found, the issues seem to be more prevalent on Geforce GTX 10xx models and Radeon RX models (the 400 series). The old R9-280X worked beautifully and on affriend's R9-280X (different other hardware though) runs beautifully with similar settings, so it will be interesting with the responses.
It's not madvr related. For example if you send PC to sleep/screen switch off through GPU while running a game same thing will happen.

GPU drivers must not go to sleep on load.
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Old 1st December 2016, 09:38   #41058  |  Link
burfadel
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Originally Posted by Backflash View Post
It's not madvr related. For example if you send PC to sleep/screen switch off through GPU while running a game same thing will happen.

GPU drivers must not go to sleep on load.
With the R9-280X I could let the computer go to sleep if I had it paused in D3D 11 Exclusive mode, or in a windowed mode D3D 11 etc without any issues. Therefore, I know that you can let it do it, the issue and others appears to be with newer Geforce and AMD cards.

If it doesn't work for you, then you are just another person that is affected by this!
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Old 1st December 2016, 09:43   #41059  |  Link
Backflash
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Originally Posted by burfadel View Post
With the R9-280X I could let the computer go to sleep if I had it paused in D3D 11 Exclusive mode, or in a windowed mode D3D 11 etc without any issues. Therefore, I know that you can let it do it, the issue and others appears to be with newer Geforce and AMD cards.

If it doesn't work for you, then you are just another person that is affected by this!
Well yeah, but it's drivers+windows 10 that does this, madvr may trigger it more often but it happens with everything else anyway.
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Old 1st December 2016, 10:01   #41060  |  Link
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I wanted to give some feedback on the new settings layout. Personally I do not like it much as I feel its a little confusing. At the same time though I can see the original way was probably not the best either simply because it has elvolved over time. Both ways kind of over complicate the settings. I have a suggestion of a settings layout that may work but at the same time I guess some may not like it and it would be alot of work for madshi given it probably needs the current system demolished and rebuilt...

My idea is under 'scaling algorithms' there should be three sub option windows.

- Movie Original
- Movie Upscaling
- Movie Downscaling

Under each of these settings are dropdown boxes (much like the new doubling options) and other settings that follow the rendering process, from top of page to bottom of page. The user can then choose how chroma / doubling and everything else is handled as it passes through the rendering process. Movie original would be for example where a 1080p move is output to a 1080p disaply. The other two are self explaining.

Would something like that be workable madshi? What do you power users think? I feel it would simplify the options greatly but thats just my opinion.

Last edited by Razoola; 1st December 2016 at 10:22.
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