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Old 8th September 2008, 15:38   #1421  |  Link
ToS_Maverick
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slightly OT but, would it be possible to implement your decoding routine in ffdshow? don't know the difference of your decoding approach compared to the one in MPC-HC, which also has GPU-decoding support.

maybe someone other will then implement a decoder for ATI cards, that you could use
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Old 8th September 2008, 15:45   #1422  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
I haven't ruled it out, but to be honest, I generally spend my time only on things that I need myself. Now, if you showed that ATI GPU decoders perform better than Nvidia ones, then I would need it.
Well, aside from the fact that the new HD48xx-GPU support PIP (dual stream decoding), 7.1 High definition audio, resolutions up to QHD, are faster and are considered "more bang for the buck", there is nothing better about them than NVidia's

Actually, i dont really care about GPU-support. The whole thing gives me deja-vu's of the beginning of the MPEG2 / DVD-age. We all wanted GPU support then, and there were special add-in board to help assist decoding and such. See where we ended up; Our modern CPU's handle MPEG2 without so much as warming up, even in HD-resolutions. I think eventually it will be the same with H264.

So all-in-all i care more about software-decoding, and hope that I will have the same functionality when i DONT have an NVidia.
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Old 8th September 2008, 15:56   #1423  |  Link
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Well actually neuron might not have to do anything, as there are efforts on the way to get CUDA to run on ATI GPUs. ATI is still giving them the silent treatment, but Nvidia now openly supports them (including actual engineers' advice). While there isn't anything in terms of publicly available software/drivers, I wouldn't jump ATI ship just yet, if you invested in an expensive card already.
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Old 8th September 2008, 16:28   #1424  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G_M_C View Post
Well, aside from the fact that the new HD48xx-GPU support PIP (dual stream decoding), 7.1 High definition audio, resolutions up to QHD, are faster and are considered "more bang for the buck", there is nothing better about them than NVidia's
I'm concerned only with video decoding. Is there any evidence that it performs better?

Quote:
Actually, i dont really care about GPU-support. The whole thing gives me deja-vu's of the beginning of the MPEG2 / DVD-age. We all wanted GPU support then, and there were special add-in board to help assist decoding and such. See where we ended up; Our modern CPU's handle MPEG2 without so much as warming up, even in HD-resolutions. I think eventually it will be the same with H264.
You haven't been listening! I'll say it one more time and then just ignore further similar posts:

1. Any offloading to the GPU makes more CPU cycles available to an encoder. A video card is not like an additional MPEG2 decoder card. Every system already has a graphics card.

2. I currently do not have a decoder that handles PAFF correctly, and I'm not prepared to wait an eternity for it in libavcodec. The GPU decoder decodes correctly, and does not crash on bad streams as libavcodec does.

3. I get VC1 for nothing.

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So all-in-all i care more about software-decoding, and hope that I will have the same functionality when i DONT have an NVidia.
Go bug the libavcodec author to fix it, then go bug CoreAVC to release the API/SDK. Good luck!

Last edited by Guest; 8th September 2008 at 16:34.
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Old 8th September 2008, 16:47   #1425  |  Link
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OK OK, calm down ...

I do not have a NVidia, and actually plan to buy me a HD4850; But maybe in the future you be able to implemant GPU-offloading on Ati's too.
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Old 8th September 2008, 16:51   #1426  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
I haven't ruled it out, but to be honest, I generally spend my time only on things that I need myself. Now, if you showed that ATI GPU decoders perform better than Nvidia ones, then I would need it.
I tried playing back my video camera's footage with a GeForce 8500GT a while back (May 2008 I think) and the result was pretty good, but somewhat jerky (not wrong field order jerky, just not 100% smooth). I then upgraded to a Radeon 3450 and that works perfectly. This was only for my camera's footage though (PAFF ), I don't think I ever tried it with either Blu Ray AVC video or x264 created video. I still have the 8500GT in its box, so I could try it again. Since you say you have this card, were you able to play my clips ok with it? I had posted one a couple months ago when I asked you to fix a bug that was causing it to detect the stream as 188 byte packets instead of 192 byte. I can provide another sample if you'd like.

Matt
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Old 8th September 2008, 16:58   #1427  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtleggjp View Post
I tried playing back my video camera's footage with a GeForce 8500GT a while back (May 2008 I think) and the result was pretty good, but somewhat jerky (not wrong field order jerky, just not 100% smooth).
That points more to the player application's implementation than the underlying decoder. It could be a decoder issue if its sustained decoding rate is less than the display rate of the video, but I have not found this to be the case for any of my test streams.

Quote:
Since you say you have this card, were you able to play my clips ok with it? I had posted one a couple months ago when I asked you to fix a bug that was causing it to detect the stream as 188 byte packets instead of 192 byte. I can provide another sample if you'd like.
Yes, all PAFF streams are decoded correctly.

DGAVCDec is not a player application. If it can decode the stream correctly at a good rate, that is all that is required.
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Old 8th September 2008, 19:15   #1428  |  Link
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Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
DGAVCDec is not a player application. If it can decode the stream correctly at a good rate, that is all that is required.
I understand. I was merely trying to provide an example that I have witnessed where a Radeon outperformed an GeForce in H.264 decoding.

If DGAVCDec starts supporting Nvidia decoding, I will probably put that 8500GT into my main system at home and see how well it works. That will be awesome if I can finally use it on my video camera footage, if only there at home. I need to see if I can add a card to my laptop now...

[edit] Darn! Looks like Nvidia doesn't have Windows 2000 drivers for the GeForce 8 series of cards. I guess I'll have to finally update my main system to XP, unless of course there's any chance this will also work on a 7600GT.

Last edited by Turtleggjp; 8th September 2008 at 19:20.
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Old 8th September 2008, 23:18   #1429  |  Link
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CUDA ist just for Geforce8 and newer (and I hope for ATI cards too - there was a guy, who told he could bring CUDA to work on a ATI). But there was a problem with the first Geforce8 cards and their UVD, nowadays it shouldn't exist in new cards.
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Old 9th September 2008, 00:55   #1430  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Turtleggjp View Post
=Darn! Looks like Nvidia doesn't have Windows 2000 drivers for the GeForce 8 series of cards. I guess I'll have to finally update my main system to XP, unless of course there's any chance this will also work on a 7600GT.
The XP 32-bit drivers should have a good chance at working, if you're feeling adventurous. Or you might have to use an old XP driver version.
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Old 9th September 2008, 10:31   #1431  |  Link
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GPU's.... cool ...
need any testers? ... 'cause i've recently(this night) got my new sony hdr-sr12.. so i'll get more footage to decode/encode...

my primary encoding/work PC is vista x64 + 8600GT... E8400/4Gb....
and at home i have e6400(i plan to upgrade that) + ATi x3870 ....
and i will get some Intel GPU at the new Notebook...

and.. ofcourse.. i have bunch of agents on x264farm ))
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Old 11th September 2008, 15:02   #1432  |  Link
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I am now running my alpha DGAVCIndexGPU here successfully. There are some issues I want to resolve before releasing it for testing, but things are going well. The support from Nvidia is unbelievably competent and responsive! It's the best support I've ever had from any company, including my own employer.
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Old 11th September 2008, 15:23   #1433  |  Link
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This is certainly great news! I have and ol' 8800 GTX ready for some testing. What exactly does the GPU version speed up? Does it require CUDA-enabled drivers?

EDIT: I think I got the gist of it a few pages back. It seems there has been a lot of discussion on this topic last I checked. What will DGAVCIndexGPU utilize in the video card? Just CUDA? Because I recall that after the first generation of 8 series cards (8800GTX and GTS 640/320) Nvidia added something else related to video decoding (I think Purevideo HD) to the lower-end 8400-8600 cards, which don't work with the 8800 cards.

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Old 11th September 2008, 16:12   #1434  |  Link
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It uses the VP2 decoding engine. I can also expose the deinterlacer and 3:2 pulldown processing, but I haven't tested that yet. Those are referred to as PureVideo. There are several generations of it, PureVideo 1, 2, and 3. The 8800GT has PureVideo 2, same as my 8500GT.

The PureVideo HD label just means that HDCP is supported. Your card should be PureVideo HD.

I think you may be referring to PureVideo 3, which was added later and increases the acceleration for VC-1.
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Old 11th September 2008, 16:34   #1435  |  Link
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neuron, in next alpha please could you add an option like in dgmpgdec's .ini so that we can choose to bring window to foreground and beep once creating the .dga is complete as currently that doesnt happen.

keep up the great work!

Last edited by hajj_3; 11th September 2008 at 16:38.
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Old 11th September 2008, 16:50   #1436  |  Link
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Just a suggestion for when you do release the new decoder. It might be a good idea to include a list of cards and their capabilities as they pertain to this new decoder. For instance you said that all cards have the same clock, but not same memory bandwidth. So a short list of recommended cards and the cheapest option that has everything needed would be a good idea for those who don't really know much about their GPUs, aside from the fact that they run games.
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Old 11th September 2008, 17:00   #1437  |  Link
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Don't you know I always write thorough documentation?

Thank you for your suggestion.
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Old 11th September 2008, 20:11   #1438  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuron2 View Post
It uses the VP2 decoding engine. I can also expose the deinterlacer and 3:2 pulldown processing, but I haven't tested that yet. Those are referred to as PureVideo. There are several generations of it, PureVideo 1, 2, and 3. The 8800GT has PureVideo 2, same as my 8500GT.

The PureVideo HD label just means that HDCP is supported. Your card should be PureVideo HD.

I think you may be referring to PureVideo 3, which was added later and increases the acceleration for VC-1.
Nvidia just had to make things confusing didn't they?

The FAQ I mentioned was answered here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/purevideo_hd_faq.html#1Q4 but I had no idea there were more than 2 versions of PureVideo (just thought there was the vanilla and HD). But after reading the FAQ again, it does imply that there was an earlier version of PureVideo HD.
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Old 11th September 2008, 21:00   #1439  |  Link
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lol @ that FAQ.
I have a Phenom 9850 with a 8600GT, guess they don't take account for the people that have 'power processors' but not powerful video cards:
I don't game on here so don't need a powerful video card

I've tried using DXVA in MPC-HC, but it's resulted in studdering video when turned on.
From what i've read from previous posts in here, it seems that DXVA on XP is lacking? (using 177.83 drivers)
is that actually true?
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Old 11th September 2008, 21:45   #1440  |  Link
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lol @ that FAQ.
I have a Phenom 9850 with a 8600GT, guess they don't take account for the people that have 'power processors' but not powerful video cards:
I don't game on here so don't need a powerful video card

I've tried using DXVA in MPC-HC, but it's resulted in studdering video when turned on.
From what i've read from previous posts in here, it seems that DXVA on XP is lacking? (using 177.83 drivers)
is that actually true?
Topic is probably better in the MPC-HC thread but I have no problems with DXVA on my 8800GT using XP.
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