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Old 7th April 2004, 15:20   #41  |  Link
U977
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Note: I looked for artifacts using VirtualDubMob, but without using AVS script: I directly opened VOB files. Maybe it was a newbie mistake: I know almost nothing of VirtualDub and VirtualDubMod. It could decode MPEG2 without AVS scripts.

I also used DVD21AVI, as you know already.

As last note: I will check the originals when I've time. It's just that I'm not at home, and I can't prevent myself to post here during my moments of pause :-)

RB, I'd like to show a screenshot of what I saw in VirtualDubMod for Spirited Away. Is there another way than putting it on a web site? (I have no web space).

Last edited by U977; 7th April 2004 at 19:10.
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Old 8th April 2004, 19:50   #42  |  Link
RB
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Quote:
Originally posted by U977

RB, a last question: what's the best tool/way to examine video, if I want to check if there were any colour conversion problem like the one shown on that picture you mentionned to me?
What about a good software player lile WinDVD that can save screenshots? Or create an AVS for your reencoded video, use Trim() to cut out a problematic part and then ImageWriter() to save a sequence of frames as bitmaps (it's all in the AVISynth docs). Before ImageWriter, you must put a ConvertToRGB24(interlaced=true/false) statement.

About that screenshot you want to share: just attach the image to your reply and I'll make it visible

And I have just seen the combination of Progressive and DCT Type = Field you mentioned earlier for the first time myself. Really, all frames were marked as progressive, but scan order was alternate and DCT type was field. But it was really actually interlaced stuff with typical interlacing artifacts in DVD2AVI preview.

Nonetheless, I encoded it with ConvertToYUY2() but set up CCE for interlaced of course. I couldn't spot any problems in the encoded video.

So I would again say yes, trust the DVD2AVI preview or the log file that my butchered version creates for your color space conversions. If in doubt because there's a mixture of progressive/interlaced, use ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) because it causes almost no harm to progressive frames.
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Old 9th April 2004, 12:09   #43  |  Link
U977
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RB,

Many many thanks for sharing your experience, and helping.

I checked the originals, and for most of them, it's like what you said:teh content looks like progressive, frames are flagged as progressive, but DCT type is field, and alternate scan is used.

So, by luck, I used the proper settings (ConvertToYUY2(), and encoding as Interlaced with alternate scan), and that's why I did not get any problem.

So, I'm reassured, and my curiosity is now satisfied lol

However, as last remark, I can tell you that most of the time my content looked progressive in DVD2AVI too, and I couldn't spot interlaced artifacts in the original.

Just very very few had interlaced artifacts (I can only recall one.. I did not check all of them, and those that I checked didn't have them), and encoding as interlaced allows all players to play it correctly.

Thanks again!
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Old 3rd July 2004, 14:23   #44  |  Link
burnout
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just to check things i was wondering it this is correct:


AVISynth Script (look for interlacing artifacts with DVD2AVI or VDubMod)

Progressive - ConvertToYUY2()
Interlaced - ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
If in doubt or int & prog - ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)


CCE Settings

Progressive - Progressive Frames: On, Scan Order: ZigZag
Interlaced - Progressive Frames: Off, Scan Order: Alternate


That seems to keep the picture fine for both types, but i was wondering what options should be used when deinterlacing (i use kerneldeint.dll)? i'm guessing that the progressive options in CCE should be chosen, but interlaced=true for the avs script, could some1 please confirm this?

also while i'm asking questions...

Quote:
From CCE (Robshot method AKA "Getting the best out of CCE") Guide
Quantscale is actually nonlinear which would lead us to believe to not check Linear quantizer scale but the original author of this method told me that linear quantizer scale yields better quality.
The source was nonlinear, but using linear put the average Q.factor down by 0.1 (and the video seemed to move when flicking between images at 300% zoom as there were some differences, but i'm not sure which was better), so is this still considered a good idea? or would selecting whatever the source was originally be a better idea (not exactly sure what the quantizer scale is)?

Edit: also, how would the using a deinterlacer on progressive material affect its quality, as i have some extras which are interlaced, but have progressive video clips in them.

Thanks, burnout

Last edited by burnout; 3rd July 2004 at 14:28.
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Old 9th July 2004, 09:47   #45  |  Link
RB
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Quote:
Originally posted by burnout
AVISynth Script (look for interlacing artifacts with DVD2AVI or VDubMod)

Progressive - ConvertToYUY2()
Interlaced - ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)
If in doubt or int & prog - ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)


CCE Settings

Progressive - Progressive Frames: On, Scan Order: ZigZag
Interlaced - Progressive Frames: Off, Scan Order: Alternate

That seems to keep the picture fine for both types, but i was wondering what options should be used when deinterlacing (i use kerneldeint.dll)? i'm guessing that the progressive options in CCE should be chosen, but interlaced=true for the avs script, could some1 please confirm this?
Confirmed and your settings are fine.

About linear/nonlinear: MPEG2 AFAIK specifies only nonlinear, IMHO it's a quirk of CCE 2.5 lettings you specify linear for MPEG2 at all.

About deinterlacing: my advice is to just not deinterlace. It just introduces different artifacts. Honestly, I tried a few deinterlacers and the results always looked horrible to me. Just keep it interlaced.
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Old 10th July 2004, 19:52   #46  |  Link
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ok thanks for the info

about deinterlacing, i have heard people say that interlaced video needs a higher bitrate to have the same quality as progressive. if this is true then what type of bitrate increase would be needed for the same quality? thinking about it now i don't see how as it's still the same resolution, just split into 2 fields, maybe i will stop using one...
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Old 14th July 2004, 18:42   #47  |  Link
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Interlaced video requires higher bitrate, correct. That's because an interlaced frame isn't "smooth" like a progressive frame. It's made up of two fields that were shot at different points in time hence the typical "interlacing jagged lines" which makes it more difficult to encode. I wouldn't go below 3000 kbps for full res interlaced video.
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Old 14th July 2004, 19:18   #48  |  Link
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ok thanks for clearing that up (and sorry for going slightly off topic on this thread )

sometimes i need to reduce the interlaced extras to lower than that on a DVD, but if a bitrate of 3000 is available then i will leave them interlaced. thanks again
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Old 11th November 2004, 10:41   #49  |  Link
dplaton
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avi RAW source

I encoded an analog interlaced RAW capture as interlaced
via VitualDubMPEG2.
CCE interlaced.
The resulted DVD played on a cheap standalone was jumping foreward and
backward.
Any ideea
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Old 11th May 2006, 13:29   #50  |  Link
dplaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dplaton
I encoded an analog interlaced RAW capture as interlaced
via VitualDubMPEG2.
CCE interlaced.
The resulted DVD played on a cheap standalone was jumping foreward and
backward.
Any ideea
The jumping was due to the inapropriate field order
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Old 10th October 2010, 22:03   #51  |  Link
subair37
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90%+ of FILM based movies which are just sped up to 25fps are encoded as interlaced even tho they are really progressive frames.

Hi

Please look at the statement above, reason is i have all Central dvds when i analyze i get source as Film field order as Top Field First and TIVTC ,but when i change source order as progressive i can see preview as horizontal lines even though central says all their dvds are progressive,so i change it back to interlaced filter as yadiff i get clear and smooth picture with no horizontal lines so please look at my script which i made to feed it in to CCE SP2 to do MCCE.


LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\megui\tools\dgindex\DGDecode.dll")
DGDecode_mpeg2source("D:\DemuxedPappi\PappiAppacha.d2v", info=3)
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\megui\tools\avisynth_plugin\ColorMatrix.dll")
ColorMatrix(hints=true, interlaced=true, threads=0)
Load_Stdcall_Plugin("C:\Program Files (x86)\megui\tools\yadif\yadif.dll")
Yadif(Mode=1)
RePal()
crop( 2, 58, -2, -58)
Tweak(Sat=1.15,Bright=2,Cont=0.93,Coring=False)
AddBorders(2,58,2,60)
ConvertToYUY2()
AddAudio()



Please shed some light on this...........
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Old 11th October 2010, 11:09   #52  |  Link
manono
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The statement at the top is correct for PAL movies speeded up to 25fps, except in my experience it might be closer to 99%. Your South Indian movies are NTSC so the statement has nothing at all to do with your DVDs. If you want advice about something, please post a 10 second long sample, one showing steady movement.
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