bdsup2sub++ - convert and tweak bitmap subtitles.

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by captainayy

I'm thinking that I'd probably leave the default behavior as is unless you specify either through a UI setting or a new CLI switch to not optimize the images.

As for GUI, it would be nice if that option would be present in the "Conversion Settings" window and its setting would be remembered.

[hubblec4]

Yes this seems to be a behaviour on Window. On Linux I have also no console at startup.
One solution I have found was to start such a program in minimized state and bring it to normal state.

[von Suppé]

The time-editor in the "Edit Frame" window behaves weird when trying to apply small increases or decreases for the "Start Time" and "End Time" values. The edited timecode jumps back to it's native value when saving changes, or Start and End Time end up showing same value.
I also wonder why the Duration value shows two decimals, where the unit is already milliseconds (ms).

[captainayy]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

As for GUI, it would be nice if that option would be present in the "Conversion Settings" window and its setting would be remembered.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. I'll make it unchecked by default to not break existing behavior, but will make it a setting in the INI that would be restored if you check it.

Originally Posted by von Suppé

The time-editor in the "Edit Frame" window behaves weird when trying to apply small increases or decreases for the "Start Time" and "End Time" values. The edited timecode jumps back to it's native value when saving changes, or Start and End Time end up showing same value.

Ok, I will look into this.

Originally Posted by von Suppé

I also wonder why the Duration value shows two decimals, where the unit is already milliseconds (ms).

No idea, but I agree. Should just be rounded to an integer value.

Originally Posted by hubblec4

Yes this seems to be a behaviour on Window. On Linux I have also no console at startup.
One solution I have found was to start such a program in minimized state and bring it to normal state.

Appreciate the suggestion. I'll look into doing that.

[von Suppé]

I had a short play-around with your latest 1.0.4b. I noticed that in "Edit Frame" window, changing X and Y offsets don't work. After "Save Changes", offsets jump back to initial values. To be sure I also checked export result. Can you take a look? Also Center, Top and Bottom buttons seem to not respond.

With SUP, Y offset starts counting at the top pixel. Therefor, "top offset" value is pretty easy to visualize. What I'm missing in the "Frame Edit" window is the option to set a "bottom offset" value (in conjunction to the above-mentioned "Bottom" button). Of course one can back-calculate by "screensize minus Y offset minus image height", but it's too cumbersome. In the "move all captions" window this function is present. I think the option belongs in "single image edit" too.

[captainayy]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

I had a short play-around with your latest 1.0.4b. I noticed that in "Edit Frame" window, changing X and Y offsets don't work. After "Save Changes", offsets jump back to initial values. To be sure I also checked export result. Can you take a look? Also Center, Top and Bottom buttons seem to not respond.

Yeah I figured it out. Seems to be the same issue I fixed here in this commit:

https://github.com/captainayy/BDSup2...444fa3c9445ef7

Looks like the previous person working on this was trying to move some old-style for loops to the newer C++11 foreach loops but didn't do it properly so the loops only edit a copy of an object not the original objects itself when iterating over them. That seems to also be the issue you noticed in the Edit Frame dialog because as soon as I changed the loop to work on object references the values stuck around after you leave the text box. I'll have to go through the code and try to figure out where else this might have occurred.

Originally Posted by von Suppé

With SUP, Y offset starts counting at the top pixel. Therefor, "top offset" value is pretty easy to visualize. What I'm missing in the "Frame Edit" window is the option to set a "bottom offset" value (in conjunction to the above-mentioned "Bottom" button). Of course one can back-calculate by "screensize minus Y offset minus image height", but it's too cumbersome. In the "move all captions" window this function is present. I think the option belongs in "single image edit" too.

I can look into this but no promises on changing things simply because I don't know the full scope and impact of such a change. It would require some exploration and probably feedback from other users as this would be a breaking change with old behavior. This will probably get pushed back a bit in lieu of fixing other bugs, but I've added it to my TODO list to look at.

[von Suppé]

Another option - if possible - I'd like to see is to be able to put in framenumber in the "Edit Frame" window, just like in the JAVA version.

[sfatula]

Can't seem to find any, in case it exists somewhere or easy to post, I need to make a build on arm64. Is there a place where the package requirements are documented?

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by captainayy

I've only had a chance so far to open up the full-width subtitles.sup one but that one has an interesting thing where it looks like the x1 position value is overflowing a 32-bit signed integer value:



As you can see in the next index the position values are correct again:



Interesting stuff...

FWIW, the forced subtitles in the English subtitle track from the 2D US Blu-ray of Avatar track do the same thing.



The forced subtitles in the English subtitle track from the 3D US Blu-ray of Avatar does not.

BTW, thanks for your efforts!

[r0lZ]

Avatar 3D is well known for the problem of their subtitles. In the BD3D, there are two subtitle streams with the same UIDs, one in the main AVC M2TS (the primary view, used when you watch the stream in 2D) and one in the AVC M2TS (dependent stream, used only for 3D). If you are using the 3D version of the BD, don't worry, as 2 streams with the same UID cannot be parsed correctly with most software demuxers !

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

Avatar 3D is well known for the problem of their subtitles. In the BD3D, there are two subtitle streams with the same UIDs, one in the main AVC M2TS (the primary view, used when you watch the stream in 2D) and one in the AVC M2TS (dependent stream, used only for 3D). If you are using the 3D version of the BD, don't worry, as 2 streams with the same UID cannot be parsed correctly with most software demuxers !

Interesting... I found the 2D version to be more broken than the 3D with the single .sup the demuxer's find, but I wasn't aware there were two subtitles streams with one for each eye. I watched the 3D Blu-ray rip (made with MakeMKV) with my GF over the weekend and discovered the forced subtitles were messed up. The .mkv only has 1 subtitle stream, so that's where I started. I now have a mkv of each with forced subtitles that have only the correct subtitles in them, that display for the right amount of time, that appear in the right place on the screen. There's only one .sup in each though.

Is there actually a way to handle the two subtitle streams for the 3D disc correctly in a .mkv?

Edit: Or a way to create a .mkv without re-encoding that has subtitles with the same 3D depth as the original Blu-ray?
Edit2: Seems like there is no way to assign a 3D plane to the .sup in a .mkv

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Is there actually a way to handle the two subtitle streams for the 3D disc correctly in a .mkv?

3DBD usually carries one subtitle. Not one for each eye. Avatar is just an odd one out. Subtitle depth information is present in so-called "3D planes" which are carried by the MVC stream. A 3D compatible player can read this information and will create the second subtitle with the proper offset, and overlay this on frames for the other eye.

As such, mkv just carries the same one subtitle (for each language of course) that's in the AVC mainstream of a 3D disc. Regarding video, main difference between 3D bluray and 3Dmvc-mkv is that the AVC-stream and MVC-stream are interleaved into one elememtary videostream. This is what MakeMKV does.

[r0lZ]

Yes. And the number of the 3D-Plane associated with a particular subtitle stream is stored in the MPLS file on the 3DBD. Since that file is lost when MakeMKV muxes the tracks to the final MKV 3D, the 3D-Plane number was lost too, but I have asked to copy it in a special tag. That information is therefore available now (and is used by BD3D2MK3D) when the 3D MKV has been created by MakeMKV. I don't know if it is possible to modify or specify that tag manually.
BTW, a similar problem existed for the order of the main and dependent video streams (left/right or right/left eyes). With old versions of MakeMKV, that information was also lost, then incorrect, but it should be available and correct now.

[von Suppé]

From day one, I've always been creating BD-ISO for "movie-only" and my homebrew sups. Always worked on every 3D player. I have very limited experience with mvc-mkv.

Originally Posted by r0lZ

...to copy it in a special tag. That information is therefore available now...

Am I right to consequently assume that displaying the (intended) subtitle depth will be at the mercy of a player's ability to read this special tag in the first place?
Interesting anyways. When I have time I'll rip a 3DBD with MakeMKV and go see for myself.

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Edit2: Seems like there is no way to assign a 3D plane to the .sup in a .mkv

Originally Posted by r0lZ

I don't know if it is possible to modify or specify that tag manually.

If not, there may be a workaround. First create a 3DBD with tsMuxer (where you can assign the right 3D-plane to a PGS stream). Rip that result with MakeMKV. Hopefully this works.

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

Yes. And the number of the 3D-Plane associated with a particular subtitle stream is stored in the MPLS file on the 3DBD. Since that file is lost when MakeMKV muxes the tracks to the final MKV 3D, the 3D-Plane number was lost too, but I have asked to copy it in a special tag. That information is therefore available now (and is used by BD3D2MK3D) when the 3D MKV has been created by MakeMKV. I don't know if it is possible to modify or specify that tag manually.
BTW, a similar problem existed for the order of the main and dependent video streams (left/right or right/left eyes). With old versions of MakeMKV, that information was also lost, then incorrect, but it should be available and correct now.

Mosu said there was no way to assign a PGS subtitle (.sup from Blu-ray) to a 3D plane in a .mkv container. How is MakeMKV putting that into the file? Additionally, do any software or hardware players use that tag?

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

3DBD usually carries one subtitle. Not one for each eye. Avatar is just an odd one out. Subtitle depth information is present in so-called "3D planes" which are carried by the MVC stream. A 3D compatible player can read this information and will create the second subtitle with the proper offset, and overlay this on frames for the other eye.

As such, mkv just carries the same one subtitle (for each language of course) that's in the AVC mainstream of a 3D disc. Regarding video, main difference between 3D bluray and 3Dmvc-mkv is that the AVC-stream and MVC-stream are interleaved into one elememtary videostream. This is what MakeMKV does.

Are you sure that all 3D versions of Avatar do this? Mine shows only 1 PGS subtitle and it's assigned to a 3D plane from the MVC. What tool should I use to see the 2nd subtitle track? (if it's there)

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

From day one, I've always been creating BD-ISO for "movie-only" and my homebrew sups. Always worked on every 3D player. I have very limited experience with mvc-mkv.

I came to that conclusion yesterday... That a "movie only" BD-ISO is a better way to rip 3D Blu-rays. I had only ripped a few to .mkv for testing. I used TSmuxer and the .mkv to make a .ISO from them. I used the original 3D Blu-ray to find the right plane to assign the PGS subs to.

[von Suppé]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

How is MakeMKV putting that into the file?

Unless I'm missing something here, I think r0lZ has answered this. He asked for a special tag with that data and his request obviously was honoured. So when a MakeMKV-created 3D-mkv is imported in BD3D2MK3D, the tag can be read to determine the right 3D-planes.

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Are you sure that all 3D versions of Avatar do this? Mine shows only 1 PGS subtitle and it's assigned to a 3D plane from the MVC. What tool should I use to see the 2nd subtitle track? (if it's there)

No, I am not sure. It's been a long time and don't remember how my Avatar disc layout looked like. Also I don't think I have the US version.
Doesn't the second subtitle show already in your screenshot (at the bottom, as disabled)? Isn't that the one used for 2D, like r0lZ said?

[EDIT] I just realised we're still in the bdsup2sub++ thread. To avoid further pollution, shouldn't we better continue this conversation in your "Avatar sups" thread?

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

Am I right to consequently assume that displaying the (intended) subtitle depth will be at the mercy of a player's ability to read this special tag in the first place?
Interesting anyways. When I have time I'll rip a 3DBD with MakeMKV and go see for myself.

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Mosu said there was no way to assign a PGS subtitle (.sup from Blu-ray) to a 3D plane in a .mkv container. How is MakeMKV putting that into the file? Additionally, do any software or hardware players use that tag?

Honestly, I don't know. I have requested that tag for BD3D2MK3D, but I don't know if it is used by some players. It's theoretically possible but...

The tag is called "tag_3d-plane".

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

Are you sure that all 3D versions of Avatar do this? Mine shows only 1 PGS subtitle and it's assigned to a 3D plane from the MVC. What tool should I use to see the 2nd subtitle track? (if it's there)

That's exactly the problem. Since the 2 streams share the same UID, it is difficult for a software to discover that there are indeed two independent subtitle streams. Hence some major problems when you demux that streams with some demuxers (IIRC, with eac3to for example). The demuxer is confused by some overlapping subtitles and/or conflicting time-codes.

Note also that the main, normal subtitle track is, as it should, in the M2TS with the main 2D view (with the AVC video stream, all audio streams and the "standard" subtitle streams). The second track is in the "dependent M2TS", containing normally only the MVC video stream (for the second view, used only for 3D playback).

The second stream has NOT the same content than the first. It contains a full-screen panel with a message telling something like "put your 3D-glasses now". Not sure how a player is supposed to use that stream, and when it should be displayed (since, AFAIK, the player has no way to know if the 3D-glasses are used or not).

Of course, you can demux only the main M2TS. The demuxer will see only a single stream, and everything will work as expected. You can also try to demux the dependent M2TS alone, and you will probably succeed. The problem occurs when you try to demux the MPLS or the two M2TS at the same time.

Also, it is possible that recent editions of Avatar do not have the problem any more.