x266 VVC Encoder

[Z2697]

Originally Posted by rwill

What does "Average Speedup 0.01x" mean ? I have a suspicion but cannot be sure.

I think it means the x266 is 100x slower than x265, or x266 is 100x faster than VTM. (x265 is also ~100x faster than HM)
Which one is you suspect?

[birdie]

Originally Posted by quietvoid

Apparently they're still working on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE4xMNnMEyE

It's alive!!

Why is it a very low bitrate 720p stream, I've no idea.

Originally Posted by rwill

What does "Average Speedup 0.01x" mean ? I have a suspicion but cannot be sure.

It means it's 100 times slower. One of the slides says:

"Additional ASM and performance Optimization" (sic)

Looks like they started relatively late, maybe a year ago. Of course they couldn't show us anything at the beginning of 2024.

[birdie]

The most pertinent details from the clip above.

I wonder how x266 compares to svt-av1-psy/libaom and VVenc.

Comparisons were made at a very high bitrate, so there's hope that x266 won't blur everything like VVEnc/libaom do by default.

[rwill]

Originally Posted by Z2697

I think it means the x266 is 100x slower than x265, or x266 is 100x faster than VTM. (x265 is also ~100x faster than HM)
Which one is you suspect?

I suspect its ~100x slower than x265.

And one thing I tried to reproduce was the x265 Netflix-Tango YUV PSNR of 41.7db but whatever I do at veryslow or placebo I fail. Their x265 must have much better performance than the binary I got.

[Z2697]

If that's true why they call 100x slower 0.01x speedup LOL.
I don't think it's really 100x slower. Even VVenC is not 100x slower than x265.
(We can throw reference encoder out of the window)

There are ASM optimizations already in x266, according to the "enabled features" slide in that video.

[ksec]

Originally Posted by birdie

The most pertinent details from the clip above.

I wonder how x266 compares to svt-av1-psy/libaom and VVenc.

Comparisons were made at a very high bitrate, so there's hope that x266 won't blur everything like VVEnc/libaom do by default.

Well at least the Samsung clip is 4.8Mbps for 4K 60Fps. I think that is pretty low bitrate if you ask me. Youtube serve 1080P 50fps with VP9 at 4Mbps.

Would be interesting to see how it compares, but AV1 is now extremely weak tuned, while x266 doesn't even have all of its features implemented yet.

[GeoffreyA]

Originally Posted by Z2697

If that's true why they call 100x slower 0.01x speedup LOL.
I don't think it's really 100x slower. Even VVenC is not 100x slower than x265.
(We can throw reference encoder out of the window)

There are ASM optimizations already in x266, according to the "enabled features" slide in that video.

It looks like it's relative to x265. So that could be a trick way of obscuring the number. Surprising for it to be 100x slower, but perhaps they're using preset placebo or something.

VVenC was up and running and in the public's hands almost five years ago. x266 really has its work cut out for it.

[Z2697]

I'm being (maybe too) optimistic

[GeoffreyA]

Originally Posted by Z2697

I'm being (maybe too) optimistic

Dark Shikari and akupenguin are sorely needed to come back and do some codec magic in 2025

[FranceBB]

Originally Posted by GeoffreyA

Dark Shikari and akupenguin are sorely needed to come back and do some codec magic in 2025

It would be a dream, but unfortunately I don't really see Jason ever making a comeback...
There's been a lot going on in his personal life and he even changed name (I won't comment further on this out of respect). I don't personally know him, but there are still people here who have been knowing him for a long time and they hinted at this a while ago.

But... you know, although highly unlikely, I'd say "never say never"... We've seen Avisynth legends like Didee and Dogway making a comeback, so who knows...

Regardless, he will forever be considered a legend on Doom9 for everything he has done (and not only around here but pretty much everywhere on the web).

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by rwill

I suspect its ~100x slower than x265.

And one thing I tried to reproduce was the x265 Netflix-Tango YUV PSNR of 41.7db but whatever I do at veryslow or placebo I fail. Their x265 must have much better performance than the binary I got.

If they're testing PSNR, they might have used --tune psnr?

[benwaggoner]

Originally Posted by GeoffreyA

Dark Shikari and akupenguin are sorely needed to come back and do some codec magic in 2025

It would be nice, but they didn't have much of a role in x265, or anything with x264 for more than a decade.

Lots of good stuff here: https://web.archive.org/web/20121221...multimedia.cx/

[rwill]

Originally Posted by benwaggoner

If they're testing PSNR, they might have used --tune psnr?

This is very likely, but so have I.

The most simple command would be:

./x265 --input Netflix_Tango_4096x2160_60fps_10bit_420.y4m --profile main10 --tune psnr --bitrate 10900 --pass 1 -o trash.265 --preset veryslow --psnr -I 300
./x265 --input Netflix_Tango_4096x2160_60fps_10bit_420.y4m --profile main10 --tune psnr --bitrate 10900 --pass 2 -o trash.265 --preset veryslow --psnr -I 300

For this I get a Global YUV PSNR of 40.8045db.

I got the Netflix_Tango sequence from Derf's collection.

[Z2697]

.5 more to go
had to use pbratio=1.4 to get into < 10900 kbps bitrate
with default pbratio the bitrate is 11197.41 kbps psnr is 41.263
I use the same source downloaded from Derf's collection, I just encoded it with x264 lossless fastdecode (it really get slow to decode without it)

>ffmpeg -v 0 -i X:\Netflix_Tango_4096x2160_60fps_10bit_420.lossless.mkv -f yuv4mpegpipe -strict -1 - | x265 --input - --y4m^
 --profile main10 --qp 29 --tune psnr --psnr -oNUL -I300 --rdoq 2 -b3 --asm avx512 --ref 6 --tu-intra-depth 2 --tu-inter-depth 2^
 --limit-refs 0 --rd 6 --no-early-skip --no-strong-intra-smoothing --subme 7 --max-merge 5 --pbratio 1.4

y4m  [info]: 4096x2160 fps 60/1 i420p10 sar 1:1 unknown frame count
raw  [info]: output file: NUL
x265 [info]: HEVC encoder version 4.1+96-5de5f564
x265 [info]: build info [Windows][clang 19.1.7][64 bit] 10bit
x265 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast LZCNT SSSE3 SSE4.2 AVX FMA3 BMI2 AVX2 AVX512
x265 [info]: Main 10 profile, Level-6 (Main tier)
x265 [info]: Thread pool created using 32 threads
x265 [info]: Slices                              : 1
x265 [info]: frame threads / pool features       : 6 / wpp(34 rows)
x265 [info]: Coding QT: max CU size, min CU size : 64 / 8
x265 [info]: Residual QT: max TU size, max depth : 32 / 2 inter / 2 intra
x265 [info]: ME / range / subpel / merge         : hex / 57 / 7 / 5
x265 [info]: Keyframe min / max / scenecut / bias  : 30 / 300 / 40 / 5.00
x265 [info]: Lookahead / bframes / badapt        : 20 / 3 / 2
x265 [info]: b-pyramid / weightp / weightb       : 1 / 1 / 0
x265 [info]: References / ref-limit  cu / depth  : 6 / off / off
x265 [info]: Rate Control                        : CQP-29
x265 [info]: tools: rd=6 rdoq=2 rskip mode=1 signhide tmvp b-intra lslices=8
x265 [info]: tools: deblock sao dhdr10-info
x265 [info]: frame I:      1, Avg QP:26.00  kb/s: 57963.36  PSNR Mean: Y:40.464 U:48.380 V:46.834
x265 [info]: frame P:     74, Avg QP:29.00  kb/s: 25317.55  PSNR Mean: Y:39.710 U:47.284 V:45.060
x265 [info]: frame B:    219, Avg QP:31.33  kb/s: 5735.02   PSNR Mean: Y:39.524 U:47.394 V:45.138
x265 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:0.0% UV:0.0%

encoded 294 frames in 61.10s (4.81 fps), 10841.60 kb/s, Avg QP:30.73, Global PSNR: 41.242

[rwill]

Originally Posted by Z2697

the bitrate is 11197.41 kbps psnr is 41.263 [...]

[some other run:]

encoded 294 frames in 61.10s (4.81 fps), 10841.60 kb/s, Avg QP:30.73, Global PSNR: 41.242

Please note that what x265 reports as the Global PSNR is not what one expects when wanting the Global YUV PSNR, that encoders like VVEnc or such report. I have not searched really hard but never have seen Multicorewares way of calculating it somewhere else - whatever it is, it not the Global YUV PSNR and results in higher values most of the time.

You should use a third party tool to calculate the true Global YUV PSNR to be able to compare it to other encoders.

[Z2697]

double globalPsnr = (m_analyzeAll[layer].m_psnrSumY * 6 + m_analyzeAll[layer].m_psnrSumU + m_analyzeAll[layer].m_psnrSumV) / (8 * m_analyzeAll[layer].m_numPics);

I thought you are using x265's PSNR calculation because you used --psnr

in FFmpeg the plane weights are calculated by their resolution:

    sum = 0;
    for (j = 0; j < s->nb_components; j++)
        sum += s->planeheight[j] * s->planewidth[j];
    average_max = 0;
    for (j = 0; j < s->nb_components; j++) {
        s->planeweight[j] = (double) s->planeheight[j] * s->planewidth[j] / sum;
        average_max += s->max[j] * s->planeweight[j];
    }

Which is a bit weird, the chroma planes (which have higher PSNR) have higher weights in FFmpeg, but the final average PSNR is lower... maybe it's because FFmpeg is averaging the MSE then calculate PSNR at the end, rahter than averaging PSNR? I have no idea.

        av_log(ctx, AV_LOG_INFO, "PSNR%s average:%f min:%f max:%f\n",
               buf,
               get_psnr(s->mse, s->nb_frames, s->average_max),
               get_psnr(s->max_mse, 1, s->average_max),
               get_psnr(s->min_mse, 1, s->average_max));
    }

Anyway, if they are comparing two of their encoders, I assume that doesn't hurt. x266 should have the same way of PSNR calculation as x265.

[ksec]

Originally Posted by FranceBB

It would be a dream, but unfortunately I don't really see Jason ever making a comeback...
There's been a lot going on in his personal life and he even changed name (I won't comment further on this out of respect). I don't personally know him, but there are still people here who have been knowing him for a long time and they hinted at this a while ago.

But... you know, although highly unlikely, I'd say "never say never"... We've seen Avisynth legends like Didee and Dogway making a comeback, so who knows...

Regardless, he will forever be considered a legend on Doom9 for everything he has done (and not only around here but pretty much everywhere on the web).

I know money isn't everything and I am not a millionaire that could bootstrap the whole thing. But I could easily see myself donating a thousand dollar just to see this dream come true. I am sure if we get enough company and people together the sum of money could be something.

I really want another encoder that takes the no nonsense approach. As a matter of fact I wish they could be back to work on x264 in a way that breaks H.264 limitation but in a completely patent free way.

[filler56789]

Originally Posted by FranceBB

<!-- snip -->

Well, you really should not expect Dark Shikari to return if you insist on being a proud transphobe...

I know this is "off-topic", but so are your misplaced ""thoughts"" or ""opinions"".

[/END_OF_DISCUSSION]

[FranceBB]

Originally Posted by ksec

I know money isn't everything and I am not a millionaire that could bootstrap the whole thing. But I could easily see myself donating a thousand dollar just to see this dream come true. I am sure if we get enough company and people together the sum of money could be something.

Speaking of money, I'm a technical guy, not a financial guy, so I don't know what the agreement between Comcast / Sky and Multicoreware is, but all I know is that we're sponsoring the development and I'm very proud that the company I work for is using some of the revenues to finance open source projects.

[kurkosdr]

Originally Posted by filler56789

<!-- snip -->

I know this is "off-topic", but so are your misplaced ""thoughts"" or ""opinions"".

[/END_OF_DISCUSSION]

And what you don't understand is that you can't drop in the middle of a conversation, accuse someone else of being <whatever>, provide zero context, and then unilaterally end the discussion, not without coming off as a complete and utter moron.

And yes, I know my post is also insulting, but since this is apparently allowed, I might as well join the fun.