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Old 29th October 2024, 10:33   #65401  |  Link
flossy_cake
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A repeat frame every 41 seconds due to playing 23.976 @ 24 is SUPER noticeable to me, very easy to spot on a double blind test. The layperson might not notice it though, but if you're into madvr you're probably not a layperson.
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Old 29th October 2024, 10:47   #65402  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Could you tell the diff between 23.976 and 24.0 in a blind test? .
^ this was meant to ask whether anyone could tell the diff between 23.976fps @ 23.976hz, vs 24.0fps @ 24.0hz

Cause I thought leeperry was using reclock to speed it up to 24.0 not to avoid a repeat frame every 41 seconds but for "real cinema experience"

The only tangible difference I could think of is a 2hr movie would have runtime of 7.2 seconds longer
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Old 29th October 2024, 18:16   #65403  |  Link
tp4tissue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
who wouldn't notice a 41 ms frame time skip...
You have to be in a fairly long medium-high speed paning shot.

If this occurs every ~40 seconds, which is most 23.976 into 24, almost guaranteed to miss the majority of these double frames or skips in real content.


If you have a panning test video, and you stare at it, and go, there's 1, there's 1 every 40 seconds, yea. it's possible to see it, but calling bullshit on people seeing it in real content.

And in the test video, it doesn't look like something broke, it just looks like a flicker, not even a stutter.
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Old 29th October 2024, 19:41   #65404  |  Link
huhn
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a 41 ms long flicker.

it's close to impossible to miss.
you just need something that move with a predictable speed even moving lips is enough.

and noticing it one time is more then enough to fix it and it will happen quite alot.
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Old 29th October 2024, 19:55   #65405  |  Link
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@tp4tissue , in a 2hr movie you will have 172 of these 41ms jerks. Yes, if the camera is not moving very much you probably won't notice it, but you have 172 chances at it happening, you WILL notice it many times during every movie. I've tried watching movies like this and it just keeps grabbing my attention every now and then. It's not like I have to consciously look for it, its just an obvious defect.
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Old 29th October 2024, 21:52   #65406  |  Link
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Calling double BS on both flossy and huhn XD

I can barely notice it deliberately looking for it.

Also huhn, moving lips, NO WAY, lips are quite small and the articulation distance is very narrow and fast, even without flicker, they look like they're flickering when people speak. Even with hair and head movements, if they're only moved slightly, no way you can see a dropped/repeated frame.

They don't look like jerks as flossy describe, if you see a jerk, something else is wrong in the playback chain.

/LIES
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Old 29th October 2024, 23:04   #65407  |  Link
huhn
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it is literal the same as a dropped frame from performance issue and yes you can see that the motion is instantly wrong.

it's utterly trivial.
it's like claiming people can't see a 41 ms spike in a video game 41 ms!
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Old 29th October 2024, 23:13   #65408  |  Link
flossy_cake
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Calling double BS on both flossy and huhn XD

I can barely notice it deliberately looking for it.

Also huhn, moving lips, NO WAY, lips are quite small and the articulation distance is very narrow and fast, even without flicker, they look like they're flickering when people speak. Even with hair and head movements, if they're only moved slightly, no way you can see a dropped/repeated frame.

They don't look like jerks as flossy describe, if you see a jerk, something else is wrong in the playback chain.

/LIES
Ok well enjoy your 172 stutters I'll be over here in smooth land :P

It's probably a moot point for you anyway as Vincent Teoh says the S95C can't do a perfectly smooth 24hz with 41ms between each frame. Because apparently to avoid 3:2 judder on the latest Samsungs when feeding it 1080p24 or 4k24 over HDMI, you have to turn on motion processing which causes occasional stutters where you get a 41ms stutter around certain scene change frames due to glitches in the motion processing. This is a total deal breaker for me as I spent many hours solving this exact same issue that occurs as a result of IVTCing my 30i DVDs to 24p due to cadence breaks around scenechanges which occur due to the scene splicing being done to the nearest field instead of waiting till the end of the current 3:2 cycle. My solution was to detect these duplicate frames in the final 24p output and do an 8-frame blend over it with neighbouring frames to hide the 41ms stutter (because 5 blended frames wasn't quite smooth enough for hiding the jerk in my view, and 10 frames was a bit too much of an extended blur - 8 was the sweet spot). But even this wasn't good enough because if you blend across the scene change frame, the scene change itself looks weird like a scene fade effect instead of a clean cut. My workaround was to buffer 8 frames in advance so that I could detect when I'm 8 frames before the next scene change and then blend 8 frames leading up to the scene change frame so the scene change frame is left alone as a clean transition. This is an optional feature in my avisynth filter (which can be used in realtime with MPC-HC) but it can also IVTC to 60p and not have to deal with the issue at all (but then you will have 3:2 judder of course, but it's the only way to preserve all field cadences like 1:1, 2:2, 3:2, 4:4, 5:5, 8:7 etc. all inside the same 60p container with correct frame times)


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Old 30th October 2024, 00:03   #65409  |  Link
huhn
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120hz is fine at least on the software version i'm at. so it actually can do it properly just need a source that can send it.
it's just stupid error they made.

madVR with nvidia card will create so many hidden drop frames with default setting you have far bigger problems.

and people instantly notice that and they didn't even have an OSD that told them.
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Old 30th October 2024, 00:42   #65410  |  Link
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120hz
Are you at 120.0 or 119.88? Is this a "TV resolution" or "PC resolution" in GPU control panel? (PC resolution may not be acceptable for me as it can disable too many picture settings)
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Old 30th October 2024, 01:20   #65411  |  Link
huhn
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both.

all UHD 120 are PC listed it's not a default HDMI spec thing.

i'm not going into the picture settings.
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Old 30th October 2024, 01:55   #65412  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
both.

all UHD 120 are PC listed it's not a default HDMI spec thing.

i'm not going into the picture settings.
What about game consoles outputting 120hz - do those use PC timings and lose most picture settings as well?

Is it possible to do 119.88hz with all picture settings available on the S95C? If yes, then S95C is a contender for me again. If not, then it's a dealbreaker. None of the reviews mention this. You guys are my only hope at knowing this.
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Old 30th October 2024, 05:03   #65413  |  Link
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No idea, but according to this review it says the display supports all forms of VRR so probably does do 119.88, but no idea on the picture settings.

You won't be using it as a monitor though, I see here it has the subpixels in a triangular configuration.
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Old 30th October 2024, 09:44   #65414  |  Link
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You won't be using it as a monitor though, I see here it has the subpixels in a triangular configuration.
I will actually be using it as a monitor, just at a viewing distance of about 3.5m with Windows DPI scaling to enlarge everything to about 200-250% which I'm guessing should make it acceptable?
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Old 30th October 2024, 11:29   #65415  |  Link
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I cant deal with any frame skips in movies at all, I am super sensitive to them, sure some of them get missed when nothing is moving on screen but one over 41 secs is unwatchable to me, this is why I've now scrapped my wireless headphones and gone back to my trusty wired HD600's which I also forgot how good they sounded with Dialogue.

I guess some people are just less sensitive to this, I still get the odd frame skip when i'm watching some movies and i've never got to the bottom of this, i've literrally spent days trying to track it down, I usually give up for a while then then try again, I lost an entire weekend last week trying to stop getting 3-4 skips while rewatching the hobbit in 3d, I went right back through some old drivers and back to the last working MADVR before we got decent tone mapping, it looked dull and awful in HDR so this was also a none starter.

There was a time when I was using windows 10 when I had a perfect system, I stupidly upgraded to win11 as I wanted android support which turned out to be a massive waste of time, I could go back but my HTPC is a gaming / movie / photo server / Plex server /, it takes make about 5 days to reimage its a massive ballache.

I think my intermiitent 4-5 skips per movie are likely win11 / crap AMD drivers so they are undefeatable at this point. (it is only MADVR though, I dont get these skips using MPC or other renderers)
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Old 30th October 2024, 11:54   #65416  |  Link
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try this: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...postcount=3293
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Old 30th October 2024, 16:03   #65417  |  Link
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cheers, will have a go, I spotted that the other day too but forgot about it, cheers
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Old 30th October 2024, 16:54   #65418  |  Link
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
I will actually be using it as a monitor, just at a viewing distance of about 3.5m with Windows DPI scaling to enlarge everything to about 200-250% which I'm guessing should make it acceptable?
Make sure to turn ClearType off, subpixel rendering is bad when you don't have a normal subpixel structure (BGR or RGB in a horizontal line).
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Old 30th October 2024, 20:14   #65419  |  Link
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If you turn cleartype off, it will not perform antialiasing. The edges will become harsh looking on dense text. I'm using cleartype on qdoled gen 2, looks fine.

You don't want to get the s95c unless you're sure you get the refreshed connector box with new motherboard.
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Old 31st October 2024, 02:30   #65420  |  Link
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It's fine to turn cleartype off and still have antialiasing.. you will just use greyscale antialiasing instead if you want to use AA at all. Greyscale is the default on most devices now for a variety of reasons.

On my regular RGB stripe display I have AA completely off in Windows, and on my SD which is Linux I use greyscale AA, however I turned AA off in the browser.

With the S95C's pixel structure, a white line is going to have the top fringe all green, and the bottom fringe is going to be purple.. because that top subpixel row is only green subpixels and the bottom is only red and blue subpixels.. but these are edge cases..

Definitely have cleartype off though.

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