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Old 24th June 2022, 19:53   #24821  |  Link
Msarc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
Different things. If the renderer has support for stuff like dithering, levels, etc. those are passed through and it is the renderer on the other end that sets the settings.

Those settings won't change anything with those two renderers. If you need to change dithering, levels, etc. in MadVR or MPCVR you have to do it on that side.
Got it, thank you.
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Old 18th July 2022, 13:56   #24822  |  Link
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I have tried to decode a HEVC 4:4:4 file and, according to this, my card (1660 Super) should support it.

Anyway, trying to decode with Lav Filters, both in MPC-BE, as addin, and in MPC-HC, as integrated filter, makes them use avcodec software decoding.

The media file has this video properties:

Video
ID : 1
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Format Range@L5@High
Codec ID : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration : 1 h 49 min
Bit rate : 10.3 Mb/s
Width : 2 592 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.40:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Chroma subsampling : 4:4:4
Bit depth : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.153
Stream size : 7.84 GiB (79%)
Writing library : x265 2.9+8-27d8424c799d:[Windows][MSVC 1900][64 bit] 10bit
Encoding settings : cpuid=1111039 / frame-threads=4 / numa-pools=16 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=3 / input-res=2592x1080 / interlace=0 / total-frames=0 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=4 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / open-gop / min-keyint=23 / keyint=250 / gop-lookahead=0 / bframes=4 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=25 / lookahead-slices=4 / scenecut=40 / radl=0 / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / rect / no-amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=1 / tu-intra-depth=1 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=3 / limit-refs=3 / limit-modes / me=3 / subme=3 / merange=57 / temporal-mvp / weightp / no-weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=0:0 / sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=4 / no-early-skip / rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / no-b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=1.00 / no-rd-refine / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=6 / crqpoffs=6 / rc=crf / crf=14.5 / qcomp=0.60 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / vbv-maxrate=32000 / vbv-bufsize=15360 / vbv-init=0.9 / crf-max=0.0 / crf-min=0.0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=1 / aq-strength=1.00 / cutree / zone-count=0 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=31 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=0 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=1 / transfer=2 / colormatrix=2 / chromaloc=0 / display-window=0 / max-cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / no-hdr / no-hdr-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / no-idr-recovery-sei / analysis-reuse-level=5 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-mv-type=0 / copy-pic=1 / max-ausize-factor=1.0 / no-dynamic-refine / no-single-sei
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709


Am I doing something wrong?
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Old 18th July 2022, 14:17   #24823  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
I have tried to decode a HEVC 4:4:4 file and, according to this, my card (1660 Super) should support it.

Anyway, trying to decode with Lav Filters, both in MPC-BE, as addin, and in MPC-HC, as integrated filter, makes them use avcodec software decoding.
It's support only in NVDEC, you can try it in internal MPC-BE video decoder.
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Old 18th July 2022, 14:29   #24824  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
It's support only in NVDEC, you can try it in internal MPC-BE video decoder.
Would be hard to add it in LAV?
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Old 18th July 2022, 17:29   #24825  |  Link
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nevcairiel said a while back he had plans to update the internal NVIDIA decoder to use the newer version of their API, but no ETA obviously, and it wasn't clear if this would include support for formats that are decoded only through it and not through DXVA.
(Edit: Intel also supports formats that can be decoded only trough QuickSync and not through DXVA)
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Old 18th July 2022, 17:29   #24826  |  Link
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there is a * to it but the information for that is currently missing.
the information should show that this is for lossless only.
so it is not useful for general usage.
and it should not work with your file.
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Old 19th July 2022, 10:15   #24827  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the information should show that this is for lossless only
Isn't that just for the encoding part only?
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Last edited by tormento; 19th July 2022 at 16:21.
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Old 19th July 2022, 10:36   #24828  |  Link
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the encoding page is crystal clear.
and the encoding page doesn't use a *.

i could be utterly wrong like always.
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Old 19th July 2022, 10:55   #24829  |  Link
nevcairiel
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NVIDIA supports encoding 4:4:4 in normal as well as lossless, but decoding only 4:4:4 lossless.

I don't plan to support this in the current version of CUVID.
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Old 19th July 2022, 17:04   #24830  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
NVIDIA supports encoding 4:4:4 in normal as well as lossless, but decoding only 4:4:4 lossless.


Mmmm... that is not lossless.
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Old 19th July 2022, 17:33   #24831  |  Link
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good. the information was still present back in the days.
they may just forget to remove the *.

nice very niche upgrade.
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Old 19th July 2022, 17:34   #24832  |  Link
nevcairiel
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You can send it all sorts of bitstreams, and sometimes it might even work, but there is no guarantee that every 4:4:4 bitstream will work, hence we call it not supported.
HW decoders don't usually do a lot of checks. It relies on the software using them to do those checks.

Its not the first time this concept comes up. "It works for this one video I have" is not proof that it works for _every_ video using that encoding. Thats the tricky part about decoders, you have to support every single codec feature. An encoder has it easier - it gets to pick which features it implements.

Unless support is clearly documented, and with which hardware supports what as well, its just not worth the hassle for edge cases. Guaranteed correct decoding is more important then maybe faster decoding.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th July 2022 at 17:43.
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Old 19th July 2022, 17:49   #24833  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
You can send it all sorts of bitstreams, and sometimes it might even work, but there is no guarantee that every 4:4:4 bitstream will work, hence we call it not supported.
Perhaps long time ago. Nowadays it's supported and working.

https://docs.nvidia.com/video-techno...pi-prog-guide/
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Last edited by tormento; 19th July 2022 at 17:52.
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Old 19th July 2022, 22:29   #24834  |  Link
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That link doesn't mention 4:4:4 HEVC at all. In fact it only lists main/main10/main12 support for HEVC in the feature matrix, which is limited to 4:2:0. So not sure what you were trying to show there.
If anything the support for HEVC 4:4:4 is very badly documented, and the only documentation I actually know of mention it special cases it to be lossless only. Hence I likely wouldn't care to offer it, even after the CUVID/NVDEC support was re-written. Badly documented niche features is how you get annoying bugs.

Besides all that, high-bandwidth copy-back decoding is also quickly bottlenecking on memory bandwidth, and finding a renderer willing to add support for native delivery of 4:4:4 formats is quite likely going to be rather challenging.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th July 2022 at 22:32.
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Old 20th July 2022, 00:12   #24835  |  Link
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I for one would appreciate HEVC 10-BIT 4:4:4 hw decoding via NVDEC but I'm also happy to admit that it is a niche case that would be a nice to have rather that a must.

FWIW - I capture in AVC 4:2:2 10-Bit UHD Log (Sony FX6) and typically render out (Davinci Resolve) in HEVC UHD HDR 4:2:0 and it normally looks great. I have had some issues with poor chroma upscaling on high contrast edges with this format with some rendering combinations using nvidia HW accelerated rendering (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/ind...topic=120102.0).

My edge case is that I'd prefer to just render out a 4:4:4 version that I could use both for playback (but would need HW accelerated decoding) and keep as the "master" (as the 4:2:0 version is throwing away chroma detail from the original footage). Davinci Resolve supports both decoding and encoding of HW Acceleration of HEVC 4:4:4 using NVDEC, and for those interested here is a zip file (400MB) of a short sunrise clip rendered out in both UHD HDR 4:4:4 and 4:2:0. https://behome.dyndns.info/index.php/s/7BgTfkYSmYrrzsS
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Old 20th July 2022, 05:40   #24836  |  Link
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NVDEC normal support HEVC 4:4:4 8/10/12bit.
If need - MPC VR support "needed" 4:4:4 format for "direct" copy from decoder.
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Old 20th July 2022, 08:23   #24837  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
That link doesn't mention 4:4:4 HEVC
Have yourself a "4:4:4" CTRL-F search.
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Old 20th July 2022, 08:25   #24838  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
NVDEC normal support HEVC 4:4:4 8/10/12bit.
I was planning to use HEVC lossless 4:4:4 as intermediate file for the most complex encodes, where my PC would struggle to do them in a single passage.

A fast preview player would be nice.

Anyway, with a lot of probability DGDecNV is about having 4:4:4 support. I will play the avs file.
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Old 20th July 2022, 11:28   #24839  |  Link
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Have yourself a "4:4:4" CTRL-F search.
I don't think you really get it at all.

Its not about there being random mentions of 4:4:4 (without context, without further information which profiles are supported, for which codecs, etc), but the absolute lack of clear information what is actually supported. The feature matrix does not mention 4:4:4 at all, in fact it lists a bunch of profiles that are all 4:2:0. Some other feature pages list 4:4:4, some qualify that to lossless, some don't elaborate at all. Its a messy situation, and one I do not want anything to do with.
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Old 24th July 2022, 12:04   #24840  |  Link
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Hi!

I got 2 (very stupid?) questions: even when bitstreaming a multichannel track to an AVR receiver connected by HDMI, the OUT LAV Audio Decoder Pin Info shows a S/Pdif stereo connection; it's a normal behavior?

Second question: some of my Matroska files are opened by the internal MPC Matroska Source and Audio Decoder of MPC-BE instead of LAV Splitter Source and Audio Decoder (with what seems to be an audio filter for each language, instead of LAV Splitter Source + LAV Video Decoder + LAV Audio Decoder as usual): the only difference I noted is that this files are marked as AVC High Profile Level 4.1; this is the filter chain:

MPC-BE 1.6.3.0
Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- Audio Switcher
- LAV Video Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC Matroska Source
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