Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > New and alternative a/v containers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th November 2023, 21:35   #25081  |  Link
mclingo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,354
cheers
__________________
LG OLED EF950-YAM RX-V685-RYZEN 3600 - 16GBRAM - WIN10 RX 5700 - https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions
mclingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 12:29   #25082  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
You can't get Atmos or DTS:X (or Auro-3D) without passthrough. The immersive layer is stripped out with LPCM.
It is correct, but I like do some comments (I talk about MPC-HC test):

1) We haven't a free Atmos (or DTS:X) decoder included in LAV Filters.
Maybe can be added the Cavernize free EAC3 Atmos decoder and, based in the speaker configuration (not only ...5.1, 7.1 but also 5.1.2, etc.), decoded to PCM with the correct channel mask.

2) But also with a wav with the correct channel mask preserved (solved now in LAV Filters) my Denon VCR 8 channels configured like FL FR FC LF SL SR TFL TFR can't play that wav correctly: the TFL TFR channels are played also in the SL SR speakers.

It is a problem of my Denon VCR or with the HDMI PCM protocol?

If I encode that wav to EAC3 (L R C LFE Ls Rs Vhl Vhr) and send it passthrough is played correctly (of course also the original Atmos)
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 12:58   #25083  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,359
Most HDMI devices ignore any custom channel masks. Unclear if this is the GPU drivers fault or the receiver device, or even some kind of HDMI limitation. But in my experience they only really support one configuration per channel count.
And I don't believe more then 8 channel are supported, which might be a GPU limitation, as HDMI 2 should support more, although its not clear to me if that support extends to uncompressed PCM.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 19th November 2023 at 13:00.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 14:56   #25084  |  Link
andybkma
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 212
W10, mpc-be 1.6.10 & PotPlayer 231102, LAV Filters .78 D3D11, MPC Video Renderer 0.6.9.2117

LAV Splitter, LAV HEVC Decoder & LAV Audio decoder all selected in MPC-BE & PotPlayer

Hi nev, I noticed tonight that when using LAV Filters for HEVC HDR video decoding with PotPlayer & MPC-BE with MPC Video Renderer and W10 OS HDR already turned on before an HDR video is played, that when starting that HDR video that my HDR-capable screen goes through a series of flashes. The flashing it seems is that something is causing the HDR to turn off (even though it was already on and supposed to stay on), then being turned on again after being turned off then finally the video plays as it should with HDR being turned on again. So basically W10 HDR is already on, start the HDR video, W10 HDR is automatically being turned off for some strange reason, then automatically being turned on again... a whole bunch of flashes.

So you're asking what does this have to do with LAV? Well, when I select the "internal" HEVC decoders in both MPC-BE and PotPlayer then all the above doesn't happen. It's only when I select LAV as the HEVC decoder with MPC Video Renderer then all the HDR screen off-on flashing happens. If I use madVR then the flashing doesn't happen either. It's the combination of LAV Video Decoder with MPC Video Renderer. Somehow it's when these two are being used together that the video players can't tell that W10 HDR is already turned on so it turns it off then on again automatically causing all the bizarre flashing...

Last edited by andybkma; 19th November 2023 at 15:00.
andybkma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 17:51   #25085  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,664
Change the "Auto Display HDR on/off" setting in MPCVR.
__________________
MPC-HC 2.3.0
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th November 2023, 23:20   #25086  |  Link
j7n
Registered User
 
j7n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 139
Why does the Normalize matrix checkbox has no effect (always quiet) if 32-bit floating point output is unchecked? I kept it off becaue my sound card doesn't accept it. The volume should already be adjusted before leaving the player.

DVD rate DTS also runs short because of a discrepancy between 1509 and 1536. And to seek it reads the entire stream now, which is really slow. "Black Edition" with clasic DTSAC3Source.ax still works as pre-1.7 Homecinema.

https://i.imgur.com/Oq9jD36.png
j7n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 00:58   #25087  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,359
Put your audio files into a container, raw is useless for anything but temporary storage during muxing. Its not a format I'm going to spend much effort on, especially for whats likely an upstream issue.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 20th November 2023 at 01:26.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 05:04   #25088  |  Link
j7n
Registered User
 
j7n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 139
It is fair to say that it's an upstream issue. I don't really know the etiquette for posting on Trac.
j7n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 09:37   #25089  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,359
Reproduce the issue with ffmpeg or ffprobe command-line tools, and post your findings with all the details. A sample file goes a long way too. Not much else to it.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 11:49   #25090  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Most HDMI devices ignore any custom channel masks. Unclear if this is the GPU drivers fault or the receiver device, or even some kind of HDMI limitation.
Thanks for the answer, even if we don't know the solution.
Of course if receivers, with 8 channels, can't support the most simple Atmos decode 3D (5.1.2) include the decoder in the software player is useless.
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2023, 18:01   #25091  |  Link
Sunspark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 494
Forgive my ignorance on the atmos subject, but one thing that has always puzzled me about it, when I used this netflix browser extension awhile ago https://github.com/lkmvip/netflix-4K-DDplus I was able to get playable audio that was labelled as atmos over 3.5mm. I don't understand this because I have seen it said many times that you need a physical receiver for this purpose. Does this mean the extension was software-decoding and transcoding it? Or is it just that Win10&Edge over a certain version is treated as a receiver due to DRM being present and so it worked?
Sunspark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 00:44   #25092  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,359
Labeled as Atmos where? In Netflix? Any Atmos audio has a base layer, on Blu-rays its TrueHD, on Netflix its DD+, and without bitstreaming that base layer just gets decoded, and the Atmos data ignored.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 03:43   #25093  |  Link
andybkma
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsid View Post
Change the "Auto Display HDR on/off" setting in MPCVR.
Thanks for your reply and yes changing that MPC VR selection to Not Used stops all the HDR on-off-on flashing but I am confused as to why with the "external" LAV Filter decoder & MPC VR and that option set to Always it is causing the HDR off-on flashing while it doesn't happen when selecting the internal decoder.

And then with madVR and using the "external" LAV Filter the flashing also doesn't happen (while it happens with MPC VR) so wouldn't this show an underlying problem (conflict) between MPC VR and "external" LAV?

Thanks :-)

Last edited by andybkma; 21st November 2023 at 03:46.
andybkma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 05:41   #25094  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Thanks for the answer, even if we don't know the solution.
Of course if receivers, with 8 channels, can't support the most simple Atmos decode 3D (5.1.2) include the decoder in the software player is useless.
still should be useful for HRTF. but that so niche i wouldn't hold my breath.

atmos is usually also calibrated so sending the output without the calibration is not really worth it.
multi soundcard with room correction would make use of decoded atmos but even HRTF will be common compared to a setup like this.
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 16:27   #25095  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 541
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspark View Post
Forgive my ignorance on the atmos subject, but one thing that has always puzzled me about it, when I used this netflix browser extension awhile ago https://github.com/lkmvip/netflix-4K-DDplus I was able to get playable audio that was labelled as atmos over 3.5mm. I don't understand this because I have seen it said many times that you need a physical receiver for this purpose. Does this mean the extension was software-decoding and transcoding it? Or is it just that Win10&Edge over a certain version is treated as a receiver due to DRM being present and so it worked?
Atmos for Headphones can be bought in Dolby Access. It decodes Atmos into binaural stereo stream.
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 17:42   #25096  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by andybkma View Post
Thanks for your reply and yes changing that MPC VR selection to Not Used stops all the HDR on-off-on flashing but I am confused as to why with the "external" LAV Filter decoder & MPC VR and that option set to Always it is causing the HDR off-on flashing while it doesn't happen when selecting the internal decoder.

And then with madVR and using the "external" LAV Filter the flashing also doesn't happen (while it happens with MPC VR) so wouldn't this show an underlying problem (conflict) between MPC VR and "external" LAV?
Madvr never turns off Windows HDR.

My guess is that the HDR metadata is missing on the initial connection between LAV and MPCVR, making the renderer think that it is getting SDR. Then the metadata comes along later with the video frames.
You need to provide a sample file to reproduce.
__________________
MPC-HC 2.3.0
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2023, 21:18   #25097  |  Link
j7n
Registered User
 
j7n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 139
Is there a DirectShow video player than can hook into Dolby Headphone DLL like Foobar can to create a binaural mix out of 5.1? I think Atmos is mostly hype unless you make a studio with 11 speakers. With all the hate Dolby gets, they did good providing a perfect 5.1 in their E-AC-3.

Last edited by j7n; 21st November 2023 at 21:21.
j7n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2023, 10:40   #25098  |  Link
huhn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,998
even ffdshow has multiply ways to do 5.1 using hrtf.
there is alot hrtf stuff for up to 8 channels.
i also had have a asus essence stx (not in a pc anymore) which could do that to every source. the dolby solution was quite buggy and liked to clip so you had to make sure that the sound card never got 100 % volume.

there was a software with a lot of hrtf option from razer and so on dolby headphone was also part of it but i can not find it. in the end you don't hook in it you just throw x channels at it and it does the rest no need for directshow.

ffmpeg has this pretty sure it had 2 hrtf version at one time but not like i follow this. https://ffmpeg.org/ffmpeg-all.html#headphone

3D audio is not hype at all and pretty old games do it for a very long time. a game with hrtf and without is day night difference in audio positioning.

in the end atmos is just a "container"/format or what ever the term is with meta data and price tag the quality depends on the people mastering it. so why do they get hate? did i miss something?
huhn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th November 2023, 03:48   #25099  |  Link
j7n
Registered User
 
j7n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 139
Mostly because of licensing fees Dolby charges to both produce and use the format, and expensive consumer products with dubious claims (soundbars). You can find rants about Atmos online. Surround and binaural can be done with existing free formats. I do recognize the value of HRTF hence my query.

Most simple crossfeeds color the sound. Dolby solution seems comparatively neutral to me, and uses near zero CPU in Foobar because it is so old. It does bloat the bass like you played a woofer in a bathroom and muffles the top end a little. Other products often feel like a brick wall filter. The clipping was an issue with the connection. It is 24-bit and can be fed audio at any level, unless the dev refuses to create a volume slider (cough). There is no reason to tie it to Asus or Razer if it is just a software dsp.

I have since found ToneBoosters IsoneSurround, which is sounds different but also good. Wider and with less rolling off of the highs. Being a VST, it can be patched into existing software with ASIO sends to Reaper.

I will stop with the off-topic.

Last edited by j7n; 24th November 2023 at 03:54.
j7n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2023, 17:08   #25100  |  Link
Damien147
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 380
To those with AMD GPU who watch 4k movies and use D3D11 for decoding.I get an amd driver crash sometimes while watching a 4k movie and I need system restart.Are things stable for you while you watch a 4k movie?
Damien147 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
decoders, directshow, filters, splitter

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.