One-inch Type C videotape characteristics and simulating them - Page 2

AVCHDfreak · 9th November 2014, 00:35

Would it be cheaper to dub from Type C to 3/4" for archiving? I thought this practice was supposed to be avoided, even though you're not getting better quality out of dubbing Type C to Type C, it reduces relative quality loss.

I have attached a capture of one frame (tapeERROR_.jpg) where there was complete dropout, it lasted for 3 fields, something tells me that this is a permanent one made during on-field recording (the tbc seems to have a line repeater and small dropouts occurred every 2 seconds), it looks a little like u-matic dropout, would you be able to tell? Also, is it likely that abrupt panning can affect operation of the recorder in the camera?

EDIT: Another attached image (line21.jpg) shows the top portion of the shot with presumably Line 21 visible even with overscan.

raffriff42 · 9th November 2014, 16:16

Not for archiving, but 1) field camera (ENG) footage, 2) dubs for screening purposes, 3) off-line edit source tapes, 4) on-air failover, 5) low budget TV station, ...

AVCHDfreak · 10th November 2014, 00:05

If that's the case, that would make sense because when the TV stations release their programs on DVD, they tend to have a lower quality even compared to its live tv broadcast equivalent, it seems like the masters for on-air broadcast aren't used to source from when releasing programs on DVD.

Has any of the higher-end VTRs with built-in TBC manage to maintain a good picture without the need for an external one?

raffriff42 · 10th November 2014, 03:56

To the best of my knowledge, a TBC was absolutely required for decent playback. The TBC was normally supplied by the VTR manufacturer. So there might have been 2 boxes, but they were a matched pair. Some later machines had both in the same box, but early TBCs were too big & bulky for that.

Here's a cool video where a guy has resurrected a pair of late-90's Sony VTRs, an edit controller and a switcher, and is demonstrating automatic assembly of an edit decision list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEq2hQOVyng

You can see some artifacts in the monitors as the machines seek around. These artifacts are much worse than you would ever see during normal playback. Note that you see bands when seeking, as you do with a VCR, but the bands are mostly repeated video lines, not snow, and the image is steady overall.

This guy also has similar videos featuring 3/4" and Betacam machines; you might want to compare the artifacts in each.

If you want a video to have a Type C "look" you should probably include some of these seeking artifacts.

AVCHDfreak · 10th November 2014, 23:53

Thanks for the tips raffriff42, much appreciated, by the way were you able to get around to writing the script for the "cloned lines" effect over at my "U-matic dropout effect" thread? If not, that's ok, I think I can just use your script (that generates random glitches) to generate the mask, offset it a bit and overlay it.

U-matic Lo-Band had inferior reproduction of reds, was this ever improved much upon the Hi-Band and SP counterparts?

raffriff42 · 11th November 2014, 00:29

Nope, haven't done anything else with it.

9th November 2014, 00:35	#21 \| Link
AVCHDfreak Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 30	Would it be cheaper to dub from Type C to 3/4" for archiving? I thought this practice was supposed to be avoided, even though you're not getting better quality out of dubbing Type C to Type C, it reduces relative quality loss. I have attached a capture of one frame (tapeERROR_.jpg) where there was complete dropout, it lasted for 3 fields, something tells me that this is a permanent one made during on-field recording (the tbc seems to have a line repeater and small dropouts occurred every 2 seconds), it looks a little like u-matic dropout, would you be able to tell? Also, is it likely that abrupt panning can affect operation of the recorder in the camera? EDIT: Another attached image (line21.jpg) shows the top portion of the shot with presumably Line 21 visible even with overscan. Attached Images Last edited by AVCHDfreak; 9th November 2014 at 11:44.

10th November 2014, 03:56	#24 \| Link
raffriff42 Retried Guesser Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,373	To the best of my knowledge, a TBC was absolutely required for decent playback. The TBC was normally supplied by the VTR manufacturer. So there might have been 2 boxes, but they were a matched pair. Some later machines had both in the same box, but early TBCs were too big & bulky for that. Here's a cool video where a guy has resurrected a pair of late-90's Sony VTRs, an edit controller and a switcher, and is demonstrating automatic assembly of an edit decision list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEq2hQOVyng You can see some artifacts in the monitors as the machines seek around. These artifacts are much worse than you would ever see during normal playback. Note that you see bands when seeking, as you do with a VCR, but the bands are mostly repeated video lines, not snow, and the image is steady overall. This guy also has similar videos featuring 3/4" and Betacam machines; you might want to compare the artifacts in each. If you want a video to have a Type C "look" you should probably include some of these seeking artifacts. Last edited by raffriff42; 18th March 2017 at 00:00. Reason: (fixed image link)

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9th November 2014, 16:16	#22 \| Link
raffriff42 Retried Guesser Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,373	Not for archiving, but 1) field camera (ENG) footage, 2) dubs for screening purposes, 3) off-line edit source tapes, 4) on-air failover, 5) low budget TV station, ...

10th November 2014, 00:05	#23 \| Link
AVCHDfreak Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 30	If that's the case, that would make sense because when the TV stations release their programs on DVD, they tend to have a lower quality even compared to its live tv broadcast equivalent, it seems like the masters for on-air broadcast aren't used to source from when releasing programs on DVD. Has any of the higher-end VTRs with built-in TBC manage to maintain a good picture without the need for an external one?

10th November 2014, 23:53	#25 \| Link
AVCHDfreak Registered User Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 30	Thanks for the tips raffriff42, much appreciated, by the way were you able to get around to writing the script for the "cloned lines" effect over at my "U-matic dropout effect" thread? If not, that's ok, I think I can just use your script (that generates random glitches) to generate the mask, offset it a bit and overlay it. U-matic Lo-Band had inferior reproduction of reds, was this ever improved much upon the Hi-Band and SP counterparts?

11th November 2014, 00:29	#26 \| Link
raffriff42 Retried Guesser Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,373	Nope, haven't done anything else with it.