EclCCE: Adds ECL support to CCE 2.66/2.67 trial - Page 4

RB · 9th March 2003, 19:09

Great, thanks. I fixed this bug on March 7th and uploaded the fixed version but didn't change the version info. Sorry for the confusion.

RB · 11th March 2003, 14:57

A new CCE SP 2.67.00.09 trial is out and here is EclCCE v1.2 supporting it. I also made an enhancement in that EclCCE can now be used also for earlier CCE versions (2.50, 2.62, 2.64) to add the command line support. See Readme for more information.

Enjoy!

Chatwalker · 12th March 2003, 10:05

@RB

You did a great job!!! Thank you for this fantastic tool.

Regards
Chatwalker

Chatwalker · 12th March 2003, 10:05

@RB

You did a great job!!! Thank you for this fantastic tool.

Regards
Chatwalker

rui · 12th March 2003, 10:15

RB, i also wish to thank you for your dedication

A BIG thanks, man.

RB · 25th March 2003, 12:54

New release v1.3 is out. It has a very nice new bitrate tweaking feature, letting you limit the bitrate at the end of the video from a certain point, so for example CCE no longer wastes precious bitrate on end credits. You can now also modify the VBR bias prior to the encode when no VAF file exists yet.

RB · 27th March 2003, 16:47

I've uploaded v1.3a. Fixed a minor issue. Here is the change log:

Code:

27/03/2003 v1.3a

          - Fixed: Bitrate tweaking feature didn't take effect when
            encoding was started by clicking the "Encode Now" button
            in Encode Settings dialog.

Matthew · 28th March 2003, 04:39

In regards to the bitrate tweaking feature, it seems to be good in theory but flawed in practice (through no fault of your own).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what happens is that the vaf is created with the bitrate allocation information according to the average bitrate you input. Then the bitrate tweaking feature creates an upper limit on the max bitrate value from the time you specify until the end.

The bitrate allocation for the non-credits part of the film is unchanged, so you simply end up with a smaller file and lower quality credits.

So in order to get a fullsized video stream you need to input an inflated average bitrate to begin with.

The formula for adjusted (i.e. inflated) average bitrate would be:

=space for video on disc - post-tweak credit size
----------------------------------------------------------------
space for video on disc - pre-tweak credit size

X

pre-adjusted average bitrate

Now there are 3 problems with this:
1.There is an assumption that the additional bitrate will be allocated to the 2 parts of the film (credits and non-credits) in the same proportion as the pre-adjusted bitrate. If it allocated more to the actual film part then the video stream will be oversized.
2. Post-tweak credit size calculation is imperfect. It equals the length of credits (which you know) multiplied by post-adjustment average bitrate for credits (which you don't know but with a low max bitrate of say 2000 kbps you can assume that the credits will be basically CBR 2000 kbps). So no biggie there if max bitrate is low.
3. The pre-tweak credit size is impossible to calculate without running an encode of the whole film. That's a bit of a problem.

Maybe I'm this is all wrong, but anyway the point I am trying to make is that unfortunately it's hard to make full use of the bitrate tweak.

RB · 28th March 2003, 09:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Matthew
In regards to the bitrate tweaking feature, it seems to be good in theory but flawed in practice (through no fault of your own).

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Very happy to do that

CCE is smarter than you think, you will not end up with a smaller file. First and foremost, when you adjust the bitrate of some area in the Advanced VBR Settings via the "Local Bitrate" settings, CCE will also make sure that the video still complies with the Global Bitrate settings. That is, it will automatically adjust the rest of the movie depending on the local bitrate lowering/raising. As a side note, keep this in mind when reading the "Getting the best out of CCE" guide ... anyone ever bothered going back all the way through the movie after tweaking away the gray areas to see how many new gray areas popped up?

Anyway, you can easily verify for your self. Encode a small test clip (like 30 seconds or so) at around 4000 kbps average, go into Advanced VBR settings and adjust the second half of the clip to have a max. bitrate of 1000 kbps. Watch the bitrate graph for the first half go up.

Matthew · 29th March 2003, 06:00

I actually did run a couple of tests before posting. Basically I just ran the output of a 7 min sample through bitrate viewer to see if the average bitrate of the file matched up to what it should. But it didn't.

I think the problem was the nature of the test I used...in particular marking the credits point too early in the file. Because when I just redid the test with a later credits point, the average bitrate was correct.

And having fiddled with the bitrate allocation settings before (just in testing, I've never actually used robshot - no need as I keep the bitrate high) I should have known better.

Sometimes it's great to be wrong

RB · 31st March 2003, 08:57

Yeah, right, it can't raise the bitrate for the other part above the max. bitrate, so if you start lowering the bitrate too early you'll of course have a different average bitrate

wmansir · 6th April 2003, 10:17

First, thanks again for the tool. It works great as can be seen by the large amount of support it has gained. I wanted to suggest a feature. Would it be possible to set the CCE CPU priority in the eclcce.ini file? Previously I had my shortcut set CCE to 'low' on launch, but now that I use EclCCE I don't know if that is possible. I finally decided to post this after forgetting to manually set the priority for the tenth time.

RB · 7th April 2003, 14:34

If you start EclCCE with idle priority (e.g. "start /LOW eclcce.exe" from the command line), then CCE will run with that same priority. But I will make it an option in the INI and the GUI in the next version.

wmansir · 7th April 2003, 15:15

Thanks for the info.

For others, here is the shortcut I made, under XP,:

D:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /C "start /LOW D:\CCESP\EclCCE.exe"

You will probably have to change the paths, but it works fine.

Knight · 7th April 2003, 17:20

Hi,

I am using CCE 2.66.01.07 in conjuction with DVD2SVCD 1.1.3b2, Avisynth 2.08 and EclCCE 1.3a on XP Home.

I have set the encoder tab to eclcce.exe and opened the eclcce file once to create the inf file required.

But am still recieving this message.

Unable to find cce window. Error 126 the specified module could not be found

With CCE telling me that it can't Save ecl file.

Any Input would be appreciated.

RB · 7th April 2003, 17:25

Try running EclCCE directly by double clicking it in Explorer. Does it also give you that error message now?

Knight · 7th April 2003, 17:39

Cheers,

That works, thanks for the help & advice it is much appreciated.

RB · 7th April 2003, 21:21

OK, in DVD2SVCD, go to the Misc tab and make sure the "Process priority for all used programs" option is set to Normal or Idle. Try Normal first, if that doesn't fix it, try Idle.

Knight · 7th April 2003, 23:26

Normal works for me

Thanks for the help

MictXP · 8th April 2003, 23:48

I've tried to use EclCCe with CCE 2.66 and DVD2SVCD, but CCE never exits after it's done encoding. It encodes just fine, but even after I try to close it manually, it doesn't return to DVD2SVCD. Do you have any ideas? Thanks!

11th March 2003, 14:57	#62 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	A new CCE SP 2.67.00.09 trial is out and here is EclCCE v1.2 supporting it. I also made an enhancement in that EclCCE can now be used also for earlier CCE versions (2.50, 2.62, 2.64) to add the command line support. See Readme for more information. Enjoy! __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

12th March 2003, 10:15	#65 \| Link
rui Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portugal Posts: 730	RB, i also wish to thank you for your dedication A BIG thanks, man. __________________ Rui

25th March 2003, 12:54	#66 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	New release v1.3 is out. It has a very nice new bitrate tweaking feature, letting you limit the bitrate at the end of the video from a certain point, so for example CCE no longer wastes precious bitrate on end credits. You can now also modify the VBR bias prior to the encode when no VAF file exists yet. __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

27th March 2003, 16:47	#67 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	I've uploaded v1.3a. Fixed a minor issue. Here is the change log: Code: 27/03/2003 v1.3a - Fixed: Bitrate tweaking feature didn't take effect when encoding was started by clicking the "Encode Now" button in Encode Settings dialog. __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

31st March 2003, 08:57	#71 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	Yeah, right, it can't raise the bitrate for the other part above the max. bitrate, so if you start lowering the bitrate too early you'll of course have a different average bitrate __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

9th March 2003, 19:09	#61 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	Great, thanks. I fixed this bug on March 7th and uploaded the fixed version but didn't change the version info. Sorry for the confusion.

12th March 2003, 10:05	#63 \| Link
Chatwalker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bremen,Germany Posts: 35	@RB You did a great job!!! Thank you for this fantastic tool. Regards Chatwalker

12th March 2003, 10:05	#64 \| Link
Chatwalker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Bremen,Germany Posts: 35	@RB You did a great job!!! Thank you for this fantastic tool. Regards Chatwalker

28th March 2003, 04:39	#68 \| Link
Matthew jdgljlfljg Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tony Abbott's electorate Posts: 1,393	In regards to the bitrate tweaking feature, it seems to be good in theory but flawed in practice (through no fault of your own). Correct me if I'm wrong, but what happens is that the vaf is created with the bitrate allocation information according to the average bitrate you input. Then the bitrate tweaking feature creates an upper limit on the max bitrate value from the time you specify until the end. The bitrate allocation for the non-credits part of the film is unchanged, so you simply end up with a smaller file and lower quality credits. So in order to get a fullsized video stream you need to input an inflated average bitrate to begin with. The formula for adjusted (i.e. inflated) average bitrate would be: =space for video on disc - post-tweak credit size ---------------------------------------------------------------- space for video on disc - pre-tweak credit size X pre-adjusted average bitrate Now there are 3 problems with this: 1.There is an assumption that the additional bitrate will be allocated to the 2 parts of the film (credits and non-credits) in the same proportion as the pre-adjusted bitrate. If it allocated more to the actual film part then the video stream will be oversized. 2. Post-tweak credit size calculation is imperfect. It equals the length of credits (which you know) multiplied by post-adjustment average bitrate for credits (which you don't know but with a low max bitrate of say 2000 kbps you can assume that the credits will be basically CBR 2000 kbps). So no biggie there if max bitrate is low. 3. The pre-tweak credit size is impossible to calculate without running an encode of the whole film. That's a bit of a problem. Maybe I'm this is all wrong, but anyway the point I am trying to make is that unfortunately it's hard to make full use of the bitrate tweak.

29th March 2003, 06:00	#70 \| Link
Matthew jdgljlfljg Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tony Abbott's electorate Posts: 1,393	I actually did run a couple of tests before posting. Basically I just ran the output of a 7 min sample through bitrate viewer to see if the average bitrate of the file matched up to what it should. But it didn't. I think the problem was the nature of the test I used...in particular marking the credits point too early in the file. Because when I just redid the test with a later credits point, the average bitrate was correct. And having fiddled with the bitrate allocation settings before (just in testing, I've never actually used robshot - no need as I keep the bitrate high) I should have known better. Sometimes it's great to be wrong

6th April 2003, 10:17	#72 \| Link
wmansir Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: USA Posts: 1,919	First, thanks again for the tool. It works great as can be seen by the large amount of support it has gained. I wanted to suggest a feature. Would it be possible to set the CCE CPU priority in the eclcce.ini file? Previously I had my shortcut set CCE to 'low' on launch, but now that I use EclCCE I don't know if that is possible. I finally decided to post this after forgetting to manually set the priority for the tenth time.

7th April 2003, 14:34	#73 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	If you start EclCCE with idle priority (e.g. "start /LOW eclcce.exe" from the command line), then CCE will run with that same priority. But I will make it an option in the INI and the GUI in the next version. __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

7th April 2003, 15:15	#74 \| Link
wmansir Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: USA Posts: 1,919	Thanks for the info. For others, here is the shortcut I made, under XP,: D:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /C "start /LOW D:\CCESP\EclCCE.exe" You will probably have to change the paths, but it works fine.

7th April 2003, 17:20	#75 \| Link
Knight Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5	Ecl File Hi, I am using CCE 2.66.01.07 in conjuction with DVD2SVCD 1.1.3b2, Avisynth 2.08 and EclCCE 1.3a on XP Home. I have set the encoder tab to eclcce.exe and opened the eclcce file once to create the inf file required. But am still recieving this message. Unable to find cce window. Error 126 the specified module could not be found With CCE telling me that it can't Save ecl file. Any Input would be appreciated.

7th April 2003, 17:25	#76 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	Try running EclCCE directly by double clicking it in Explorer. Does it also give you that error message now? __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

7th April 2003, 17:39	#77 \| Link
Knight Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5	Cheers, That works, thanks for the help & advice it is much appreciated. Last edited by Knight; 7th April 2003 at 18:51.

7th April 2003, 21:21	#78 \| Link
RB Retired Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,349	OK, in DVD2SVCD, go to the Misc tab and make sure the "Process priority for all used programs" option is set to Normal or Idle. Try Normal first, if that doesn't fix it, try Idle. __________________ EclCCE CCE SP Plugin \| SceneImport Scenarist Plugin

7th April 2003, 23:26	#79 \| Link
Knight Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 5	Normal works for me Thanks for the help

8th April 2003, 23:48	#80 \| Link
MictXP Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 24	Never exits I've tried to use EclCCe with CCE 2.66 and DVD2SVCD, but CCE never exits after it's done encoding. It encodes just fine, but even after I try to close it manually, it doesn't return to DVD2SVCD. Do you have any ideas? Thanks!