Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > Avisynth Usage

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th March 2012, 13:50   #21  |  Link
-Vit-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainik_svp View Post
Forward (from frame 0 to frame 1) and backward (from 1 to 0) vectors are finding at the same time
Both those vectors are between the current frame and the next. But the forward vectors returned are from previous frame to current. How do you deal with that in the implementation?

Last edited by -Vit-; 30th March 2012 at 13:54.
-Vit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 14:03   #22  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,866
Chainik_svp will you be able to do some magic algorithm to correctly interpolate "moving legs"
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...06#post1566206
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 14:17   #23  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
Frame #N in MAnalyse(isb=false) clip contains forward vectors from N-1 to N.
Frame #N in MAnalyse(isb=true) clip contains backward vectors from N+1 to N.

Frame #N in SVAnalyse clip contains forward vectors from frame N to N+1 and backward vectors from N+1 to N.

-Vit-, what's your question?
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 15:46   #24  |  Link
-Vit-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 448
You answered my question .
That means SVAnalyse returns different forward vectors with settings vectors:1 and vectors:3.
I ask because it's important when converting SVAnalyse vectors to MVTools compatible ones. The forward vectors are "shifted" by 1 frame

Last edited by -Vit-; 30th March 2012 at 15:51.
-Vit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 16:07   #25  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
Quote:
That means SVAnalyse returns different forward vectors with settings vectors:1 and vectors:3.
Why? o_O With vectors=1 backward vectors will be undefined/zeroes, that's the only difference. At least I've wrote it to work in this way

BTW, smoothfps_params.debug.vectors=true will draw vectors almost like MShow.
If you set 3:1 interpolation then first interpolated frame will show forward vectors and second - backward ones.

-----
Oh, I see. You assume that the description of "vectors" param is right
It's a copy-paste mistake

Last edited by chainik_svp; 30th March 2012 at 16:09.
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 17:00   #26  |  Link
-Vit-
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainik_svp View Post
Oh, I see. You assume that the description of "vectors" param is right
Ah! Now you see why I asked about implementation, because I was wondering how you honored what the docs said - penalty.prev would be unpleasant to implement with the MVTools approach. The actual way you're doing things is much simpler.
-Vit- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 21:34   #27  |  Link
Zerofool
VR, 3D & HDR UHD fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainik_svp View Post
Zerofool
consider implementing support for YV24 colorspace in a future version

There's no real visual difference in real-time between YV12 and YUY2, but YUY2 processing is 30% slower.
That's the reason why SVPflow supports only YV12 now.
YV24 will be 2 times slower.
So why?
I totally agree, but that's for real-time processing of YV12 sources.
I used MVtools, and I plan to use SVPflow for a different thing - adding motion blur to video games footage (which is RGB), in slow, "offline" manner (so I wouldn't mind if it's slow). When converted to YV12, there's often a visual degradation of the image quality, especially at borders between objects with very different colors (for example, red car on green-ish background). With YV24, this problem is gone, the video looks visually lossless to the source.
When the motion blur is added, the problem with YV12 is less pronounced, but still bugs me, that's why I'd very much like it if SVPflow supported YV24 colorspace (of course, if it's not too much work to implement it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyth View Post
IMO it'd be like subpixel estimation, but with real data instead of interpolated.

Zerofool, you could do something like this. I'm sure there are some gotchas, like chroma placement.
Code:
w=width
h=heigth
resize (2 * w, 2 * h)
converttoYV12

#motion stuff

converttoYV24
resize(w, h)
Yeah, my footage has real data (it's RGB).
I've experimented with such approach, for higher precision, but using NNEDI3_rpow2, and I don't think the difference in quality is worth the big loss in speed.
But still, thanks for the suggestion.

Last edited by Zerofool; 30th March 2012 at 23:52.
Zerofool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 22:19   #28  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
-Vit-
All that "temporal" things should be great but they're almost impossible now because they harm multi-threading performance. (This may not be the case here but for consumer software it's very bad)
Every night I think about my own threading inside plugins

Avisynth has different main purpose - non-linear editing. If all we want is just frame-by-frame linear processing then MT caches and "distributor" are not helping
That's why SVP uses a custom Avisynth build that has:
- different distributor that manages threads pool a little more efficient
- tuned caches that hold only up to <some amount> of frames, where <some amount> depends on threads count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerofool
I plan to use SVPflow for a different thing - adding motion blur to video games footage
Then I think you should do more than posting if you want some features added just for your business o_O
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 22:34   #29  |  Link
Atak_Snajpera
RipBot264 author
 
Atak_Snajpera's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 7,866
in other words "donate or die"
Atak_Snajpera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 23:24   #30  |  Link
Zerofool
VR, 3D & HDR UHD fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainik_svp View Post
Then I think you should do more than posting if you want some features added just for your business o_O
Hey, don't get me wrong, that was just an idea. I guess some developers would be happy to know that some people are using their product in weird, non-standard way, to achieve different things. And expanding the capabilities of their product would only be seen as a positive thing.

It's not business as in Business, I don't get money for that, it's just for personal amateur-grade videos - some of my favorite moments from classic (mostly 5+ years old, rarely newer) games. And hopefully, YV24 support would be useful for other users/gamers as well.

Anyways, good luck to the project.
Zerofool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th March 2012, 23:39   #31  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
in other words "donate or die"
Why so serious?
Just remember that the one and only goal is to maximize quality and speed for real-time playback. "Removing legs" is OK within this task but adding YV24 is NOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerofool
I don't get money for that
Me too
"Just an idea" - ok, we'll append it to the looooong TODO list.

Last edited by chainik_svp; 30th March 2012 at 23:54.
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2012, 01:09   #32  |  Link
gyth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerofool View Post
I've experimented with such approach, for higher precision, but using NNEDI3_rpow2, and I don't think the difference in quality is worth the big loss in speed.
If you want precision, use point resize. (but be on the lookout for chroma shift)

Another possibility is to calculate using YV12 and then apply the motion vectors to the rgb (a separate "YV8" clip for each color).
And with pixel art, using pel=1 should be faster and help keep things pixelated.
gyth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2012, 23:41   #33  |  Link
Zerofool
VR, 3D & HDR UHD fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainik_svp View Post
ok, we'll append it to the looooong TODO list.
OK, great. Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyth View Post
If you want precision, use point resize. (but be on the lookout for chroma shift)

Another possibility is to calculate using YV12 and then apply the motion vectors to the rgb (a separate "YV8" clip for each color).
And with pixel art, using pel=1 should be faster and help keep things pixelated.
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a try. Is it OK to ask you for help on how to do that, in a PM, because I don't want to spam this thread?
Zerofool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2012, 06:54   #34  |  Link
Andrey /MAG/
SVP developer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Russia
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atak_Snajpera View Post
...some magic algorithm to correctly interpolate "moving legs"
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...06#post1566206
You can try to change some settings in SVAnalyse params:
1. block.w and block.h. The lower value the more precise vector field. Set them to 8.
2. main.search.distance. Use usual positive values or big negative ones. Set it to -10.
3. main.penalty.lambda and main.penalty.plevel.
The more lambda give more coherent movements, but more doubled contours. You need smaller values.
The more plevel give grown of coherence level by level from coarse to finest.
Try this:
main.penalty.lambda=3.0
main.penalty.plevel=1.0

And to change SVSmoothFps params:
4. algo. Set it to 2. Only one source frame will be used. So no double contour.

Fast result animation:
Andrey /MAG/ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2012, 11:14   #35  |  Link
Terka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: cz
Posts: 704
chainik_svp:
thank you!
When aproximately do you think the svtools will be ready for usage?
What advantage do you expect over the mvtools?
Would it be possible to use already calculated vectors for x264 encoding (why should x264 search for vectors, when avisynth already did this)

Last edited by Terka; 2nd April 2012 at 11:17.
Terka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2012, 11:48   #36  |  Link
Didée
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 5,391
No. "Vectors ideal for encoding" and "vectors visually reflecting object motion" are two very different ballgames. Also consider the much more complicated situation in x264 - multiple references, multiple adaptive partition sizes, I/P/B-Frames, etc.

In a word, Avisynth's motion vectors are pretty much useless for x264. If at all, they could be used for something like "initial predictors" ... but that levels of ME is pretty fast in x264 anyway. Most probably things would get worse instead of better. In both speed and quality.
__________________
- We´re at the beginning of the end of mankind´s childhood -

My little flickr gallery. (Yes indeed, I do have hobbies other than digital video!)
Didée is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2012, 14:07   #37  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terka View Post
When aproximately do you think the svtools will be ready for usage?
What do you mean? It's ready and is used in released software called "SVP".
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd April 2012, 15:31   #38  |  Link
Terka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: cz
Posts: 704
SVPflow only, mvtools has mvdegrain etc.
Terka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2012, 13:41   #39  |  Link
chainik_svp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Saint-Petersburg
Posts: 239
SVPflow 1.0.2
Quote:
= support for multiply SVSmoothFps instances needed for proper 3D handling
+ SVConvert function for integration with MVTools-based scripts
+ GPU selection for rendering
= updated SAD/SATD x264 code
How SVConvert should work:
Code:
super_params="{pel:1}"
analyse_params="{}"

super = SVSuper(super_params)
vectors = SVAnalyse(super, analyse_params)

forward_mv = SVConvert(vectors, false)
backward_mv = SVConvert(vectors, true)

super_mv = MSuper(pel=1, hpad=0, vpad=0) #padding should be zero here!
MFlowFps(super_mv, backward_mv, forward_mv, num=60, den=1)
chainik_svp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th April 2012, 13:46   #40  |  Link
Nevilne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 134
Awesome stuff, thank you.
Nevilne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
frame doubling, frame rate conversion, mvtools, opencl

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.