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Old 3rd April 2016, 04:25   #1  |  Link
vrpatilisl
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Music recorded in digital format what use of vinyl LP?

Hi
I seen eningma cross of changes vinyl LP saying 24 bit audio ..but all enifgma music mostly computer generated then what is rationality in producing LP .vinyl store analogue audio..SACD seems good option.
Any comments
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Old 3rd April 2016, 11:07   #2  |  Link
Ghitulescu
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Simply, to get yet another $ off the modern snob or uneducated man.

Not to mention that the LPs are difficult to copy (digitized). And either the LP lover listens to a bullshit-grade Ion, Pyle or Crosley turntable (cheat #1) or he is forced to spend at least 800$ to get a decent TT to start with (cheat #2). Either way he would pay much more instead of nothing (I assume he has a CD player).
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Old 3rd April 2016, 13:32   #3  |  Link
hello_hello
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The renewed interest in vinyl is just a fad. It won't last. How could it once the world re-discovers the analogue warmth and natural sound that can only be reproduced by reel to reel tape and 40 year old tape hiss? http://www.analogarts.net/

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Old 4th April 2016, 19:09   #4  |  Link
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It is not much different for movies...
A lot of folks say that a "real" film (shot on analog film) with a noticeable amount of grain looks much more natural than a soap opera shot on video (which is often characterized as having a "plastic" look).

I am old enough to remember when the audio CD appeared. I still have the first Sony CD player in mint condition. And all of a sudden the shortcomings of vinyl were declared as virtues. Warm analog distortion, tube distortion, magnetic tape saturation, you name it. Look at the countless effects plugins for mastering which try to recreate this kind of analog distortion.

For every advance in technology you will see some kind of backlash where the good old times are glorified. Nothing can be done about it...


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Old 5th April 2016, 02:15   #5  |  Link
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There are a few dedicated (die-hard, whatever term you want to use) artists that will record, mix and master their entire album in an analog environment, mixing specifically to go to vinyl. They also release a CD (which, of course, still sounds exactly like the master they created), but they love claiming the vinyl is better. You can usually tell an album is made this way these days as it's much quieter than your average album volume level. Mixing for vinyl is done at lower volume due to limitations of the format. If they don't re-mix for the CD, you get a quiet CD, like any old CDs you have from the 80's/early 90s.

The funny thing is actual audio engineers prefer CD/digital over analog. When they have a digital recording, it's _exactly_ like it sounded to them in the mixing room... Analog messes that up, especially if they weren't mixing specifically for vinyl (records have limitations that digital does not that you have to account for when you mix. If you mix for vinyl _and_ for CD, they _will_ sound different. One isn't better than the other, one is just different than the other...)

There's a great article about the shortcomings of vinyl, and it's new resurgence, here:
http://www.laweekly.com/music/why-cd...-vinyl-5352162
I especially love the part about 'Music From Big Pink' where there's a note with the tape master from the record plant stating they had to remove some of low bass end of the music as the format can't handle it... The original audio engineer found that note years later after thinking that the record just didn't sound as good as what he mixed in the studio.

There's also technology advances to consider as well... Digital creation was likely not as accurate as it is now back when CDs came out, when all the 'I love vinyl more' stuff started...

Buy only an idiot would want a vinyl record of an album that was recorded and mixed digitally... That completely defeats the purpose of it (whether you believe it sounds better or not). Using the film analogy, that's like when they take a digitally shot film and make prints of it. It's still a 2k picture (usually), doesn't matter that it's on film.
(For me, the idea of watching a movie in a theater is seeing something I can't see at home... If you are just going to project a 2k image on the screen (hell, even 4k now), I can do that at home and won't have to listen to people talking, see them texting, hear them eating all around me... Most people can't play 35mm film in their homes, and I have yet to see a digital projection where I couldn't tell it was digital- usually black levels and such, or being able to actually see the pixels (animation usually). It's just a huge drop in quality of presentation over-all... I don't hate it really, it just makes me think of paying $20 to a friend to watch a movie at his house because he has a bigger screen...)
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Old 5th April 2016, 09:23   #6  |  Link
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This is a long standing fight in the analogue audio dedicated fora.

To me the vinyl resurgence is a hoax, designed to get more money from the pocket of the nave consumer.

Now, there are people, claiming to have golden ears (not the columnists at Stereophile and the like) that claim the CD sounds a bit harsh due to the brickwall filter needed to keep the bandwidth below the half of the sampling frequency. Strangely enough, such people never protested when the cassette (another "revival" ) barely reached 10000 kHz, id est half of what the CD can, and still consider FM to be of a good quality (although also brickwalled at 15kHz not 22, and compressed to death).

The point is that the trebles are a bit overemphased on a CD, because they can. A typical, commercial CD with pop/hip-hop and the like music does not follow the natural 1/f spectrum, wherein the brickwall at 22kHz won't even bee noticeable, but is 20-30dB more, causing the auditive discomfort after a while. It is not a digital problem, it is a mastering one. Jazz, electronic, classic, vocal music greatly benefit from the qualities of the CD.

Secondly, most duplicators use a digital delay in the driving part of the carving lathe (a sort of delay line for colour TVs or TBC) which has more or less the same parameters as a CD/DAT recorder. And they are also low passed. True analogue presses are rare if any left.

Thirdly, most music is still created digital today. Then the digital master (usually 96/24) is used to matrix the mother, via analogue paths (and LoRes AD-DA delay-line conversions), so the idiots will have their piece of cake, they think it's hand make but is actually automatically-done.

Surely, the CD is old by current standards, and DVD-A and BD-A are better alternatives. SACD is worse than both, and in some aspects than the CD (Sony, the inventor, had to admit it), so one can see what importance has the mastering (promoted formats usually use hand-picked sources, use a better mastering, than the "consumer class" formats).

PS: to reach the quality of a 30 DVD-player (not even a CD player, but a player not essentially designed to play CDs), one has to invest at least 800 into a turntable, the arm, cartridge and stylus not included.

PS: yes, the CD decline is not due to the vinyl, but due to the digital downloads (legal or illegal).
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Old 5th April 2016, 12:53   #7  |  Link
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Some people like the transfer function of vinyl. I tend to ignore them.
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Old 10th April 2016, 00:42   #8  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Surely, the CD is old by current standards, and DVD-A and BD-A are better alternatives. SACD is worse than both
It's not the first time I read this on doom9 but I'm skeptical because Dsd looks better than pcm (more simple, closer to the analog signal).
People who don't like it say it uses a "strong" noise shaping while it looks quite simple and inaudible.
I even saw a message claiming dsd was lossy. Funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghitulescu View Post
Sony, the inventor, had to admit it
Where did you see this ? Maybe a former employee of Sony told this, but I doubt Sony officially declared such a thing.
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