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Old 18th May 2008, 14:15   #81  |  Link
Manao
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It could also be lack of non SSE2 optimizations. Your CPU is becoming quite a relic now
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Old 18th May 2008, 14:22   #82  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
It could also be lack of non SSE2 optimizations. Your CPU is becoming quite a relic now
That would surprise me, given that the entire Athlon lineup still benefits from MMX code; it would seem silly to omit such functions.
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Old 18th May 2008, 15:18   #83  |  Link
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I'm using MPC (media player classic). The decoder is not updating the OSD (on-screen display).
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Old 18th May 2008, 15:30   #84  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
It could also be lack of non SSE2 optimizations. Your CPU is becoming quite a relic now
At least on their project site they claim:
Quote:
* Optimizations for MMX, SSE, SSE2
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Old 18th May 2008, 15:54   #85  |  Link
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i've downloaded the 1st beta and i've tried the codec on my samples.

My first request is to circumvent the nvidia YUV to RGB hardware conversion, which is buggy and reduces the overall contrast, and i don't know if it's possible to correct it by tweaking some hidden option, or if nvidia plans to correct it.
I'm circumventing this bug by forcing each codec to only output RGB (and/or make a software conversion).
So i'd like the remoulade codec to have this feature.

Then i found some bugs :
All my samples were made with x264, some were made with x264-vfw, others were made with Megui. Some with old versions of x264, some with recent ones.

I'm using iZ3D's mediaplayer classic modification, based on mpc 6.5.0.0 with a Stereoscopic 3D output feature, i also have 3dtv.at's stereoscopic player : an other media player with stereoscopic 3D output.
I also have MPC 6.4.9.0, it reacts exaclty like iz3d's mpc.
I also tested with Windows media player 10 (10.00.00.4058).

my system specs are :
Core2duo e4300 1.8GHz OC @ 2.4GHz (equivalent to e6600 with 1/2 cache), it can go much higher but i'm not a crazy OC guy.
2GB ram
Windows xp pro + SP2

Windows media player reads the firsts 5 seconds of all videos correctly, then the image gets cut in two. One half is renderd correctly (bottom left) and the other half is buggy (top right) : it doesn't display all images, only about 2 fps (see screenshot),
It does this with absolutely all my samples.


Under MPC it's much better, the videos are perfectly watchable but it's not perfect.
All my samples encoded with x264-vfw (either in x264-in-avi or put back in mkv files) have a common problem : the framerate is a little jerky. Playback doesn't look smooth.
although mpc's stats indicate the framerate is good, the sync offset averages 20ms, dev 30ms, and jitter 20ms.
I don't really know what exactly these stats mean, but i know that something's wrong when they're not 0.
Otherwise, all my megui encodes (either in mkv or mp4) work great in MPC. (not in WMP).

I have also tried my 2x720p (1280x1440) stereoscopic video, and it works great in iz3d's mpc mod, but not so well in 3dtv.at's stereoscopic player (cpu useage stuck at 100% + some stuttering) but so does coreAVC in this player, so i believe it's a player issue.

Haven't done performance tests, but cpu useage was very close to what i usually get with coreAVC. But when i look at my cpu useage, i almost never go higher than 50% : so i never saturate any of my 2 cores.

Last edited by BlackSharkfr; 18th May 2008 at 16:08.
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Old 18th May 2008, 16:05   #86  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
That would surprise me, given that the entire Athlon lineup still benefits from MMX code; it would seem silly to omit such functions.
yeah, coreavc prooves that high performance is possible with sse/mmx, so why focus on sse2 instead of the older functions?
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Old 18th May 2008, 16:13   #87  |  Link
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Quote:
yeah, coreavc prooves that high performance is possible with sse/mmx
But you'll get faster performances on recent CPUs with SSE2, and doing SSE2 and MMX forces you to code twice as much assembly as MMX or SSE2 only. They may not have coded all the functions in both MMX and SSE2.
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Old 18th May 2008, 16:58   #88  |  Link
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Manao is correct, not everything is implemented in MMX/SSE, we'll look into that. Can't promise full SSE optimizations in the immediate future, but we'll try to get rid of major bottlenecks.

BlackSharkfr: what video card are you using? is it an NVidia GeForce 8800 by any chance? We saw this behavior on one PC, and there does not seem to be anything that we do wrong. It looks like a bug in the video driver or the card itself. We don't have a workaround at the moment.

x264-vfw problem is a known issue, related to the way we set timestamps on the outgoing frames. A fix is forthcoming.

I'd like to thank everyone, we're getting a great feedback, hopefully our next beta will be much better!

Last edited by sparky; 18th May 2008 at 17:27.
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Old 18th May 2008, 17:13   #89  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky View Post
BlackSharkfr: what video card are you using? is it an NVidia GeForce 8800 by any chance? We saw this behavior on one PC, and there does not seem to be anything that we do wrong. It looks like a bug in the video driver or the card itself. We don't have a workaround at the moment.
My current graphics card is an 8800GTX, but the color contrast is not a graphics card issue, it's a general nvidia driver issue.
My previous graphics card was a 6600gt, and before that i had a 4200Ti/Le.
Whe i used some very old driver (84.something) with these cards everything was fine but with more recent drivers i get the color problem. So i know it's a driver issue.
There is nothing wrong with your codec, it's 100% nvidia's fault, they're perfectly aware of this issue but they've never corrected it.

The problem is that the only way i found to circumvent this issue, is to force players to use software yuv to rgb conversion when available, or to force all codecs to output RGB instead of YV12, when this option isn't available.

Which is why i'm asking for an option to ouput RGB.

Last edited by BlackSharkfr; 18th May 2008 at 17:20.
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Old 18th May 2008, 17:26   #90  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSharkfr View Post
My current graphics card is an 8800GTX, but it's not a graphics card issue, it's a general nvidia driver issue.
My previous graphics card was a 6600gt, and before that i had a 4200Ti/Le.
Whe i used some very old driver (84.something) with these cards everything was fine but with more recent drivers i get the color problem. So i know it's a driver issue.
There is nothing wrong with your codec, it's 100% nvidia's fault, they're perfectly aware of this issue but they've never corrected it.

The problem is that the only way i found to circumvent this issue, is to force players to use software yuv to rgb conversion when available, or to force all codecs to output RGB instead of YV12, when this option isn't available.

Which is why i'm asking for an option to ouput RGB.
I am referring to the weird staircasing effect in the top right corner.

We'll try to do something about the color problem. I suspect there may be a better way than to force rgb, but it will take time to investigate. Short term a "disable YUV" checkbox should do.
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Old 18th May 2008, 18:12   #91  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSharkfr
All my samples encoded with x264-vfw (either in x264-in-avi or put back in mkv files) have a common problem : the framerate is a little jerky. Playback doesn't look smooth.
I have reported a similar problem in my previous post. But those files were not encoded with VFW, but with Avidemux (which is using libx264 directly).
Also the problem with 100% reproducible independent of the AVI container. I tried MKV and MP4 as well, but no difference...
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Old 19th May 2008, 00:28   #92  |  Link
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OK, I think I've signed up to DivX labs. It's been a while since I visited, but I figure since I follow it, I should try it. My desktop's about the same spec as bond's P3 monster, but slightly slower (Celeron 800 MHz), so I'm looking for a decoder that's faster than ffdshow_tryouts and competitive to CoreAVC. Who do I send the PM to?
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Old 19th May 2008, 01:02   #93  |  Link
check
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSharkfr View Post
My first request is to circumvent the nvidia YUV to RGB hardware conversion, which is buggy and reduces the overall contrast, and i don't know if it's possible to correct it by tweaking some hidden option, or if nvidia plans to correct it.
There are colour control options to fix this in the driver control panel.

Here are some tests from another forum (CCCP's):
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkers
On a q6600 with Null renderer:

720x432 High Profile (music video):
DivX beta1: User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 6s, fps: 2177.0, dfps: 1049.4
Core 1.6: User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 6s, fps: 2312.3, dfps: 932.2

800x600 High Profile (video game cap):
DivX: User: 11s, kernel: 0s, total: 12s, real: 41s, fps: 1416.6, dfps: 411.6
Core: User: 12s, kernel: 0s, total: 13s, real: 43s, fps: 1319.5, dfps: 397.2

1920x1080 BD (spirits within first 512mb):
Divx: User: 9s, kernel: 0s, total: 10s, real: 32s, fps: 318.3, dfps: 97.7
Core: User: 6s, kernel: 0s, total: 6s, real: 33s, fps: 499.6, dfps: 94.4
And one more too: 1280x544 High Profile (720p movie from a 1080i broadcast):
User: 102s, kernel: 1s, total: 104s, real: 534s, fps: 1545.4, dfps: 302.3 CoreAVC
User: 146s, kernel: 2s, total: 148s, real: 520s, fps: 1086.7, dfps: 310.9 DivX

Seems that divx is generally faster here. I disabled the logo, and 'low latency' (the latter just on wild speculation it would slow performance in this style of testing). DivX still seems to crash on a reasonable percentage of streams though.

Last edited by check; 19th May 2008 at 01:32.
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Old 19th May 2008, 03:58   #94  |  Link
cyberbeing
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My initial results were very similar to the_corona's where Divx H264 was slower then CoreAVC in every test (Like him, I also have a AMD X2 clocked at 2.64Ghz but I have the 2x1MB L2 Cache model): http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...7&postcount=56
I also noticed on average that Divx H264 uses about 5% more CPU then CoreAVC. For example, if CoreAVC was using 20-30% CPU, Divx H264 was usually using 25-35% CPU when both are using YUY2 and Haali Renderer.

Code:
All tests done on WinXP Pro SP3 32bit with a Socket 939 AMD X2 4800+ @2.64Ghz, DDR440 2-3-3-6, and 7800GTX 512
________________________________________________________________________
Blu-ray 1920x1080 High 4.1 (CABAC/4 Ref) 25.3Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 4s, real: 22s, fps: 226.6, dfps: 40.3

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 19s, fps: 404.4, dfps: 47.8

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 16s, fps: 485.3, dfps: 54.3
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
1920x800 High 5.1 (CABAC/5 Ref) 16.6Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 27s, fps: 273.5, dfps: 38.6

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 17s, fps: 485.4, dfps: 62.5

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 15s, fps: 656.5, dfps: 67.8
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
1920x800 High 5.1 (CABAC/11 Ref) 11.1Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 5s, kernel: 0s, total: 5s, real: 35s, fps: 289.5, dfps: 42.1

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 22s, fps: 451.3, dfps: 68.2

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 19s, fps: 632.4, dfps: 76.1
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
1280x536 High 5.1 (CABAC/6 Ref) 8Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 25s, fps: 651.0, dfps: 77.9

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 16s, fps: 1056.5, dfps: 125.4

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 15s, fps: 1741.8, dfps: 131.0
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
1280x532 High 5.1 (CABAC/10 Ref) 3.2Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 5s, kernel: 0s, total: 5s, real: 42s, fps: 703.3, dfps: 95.7

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 25s, fps: 1251.1, dfps: 156.6

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 24s, fps: 1320.9, dfps: 163.7
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
1280x720 High 5.1 (CABAC/16 Ref) 4.1Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 5s, kernel: 0s, total: 5s, real: 28s, fps: 405.2, dfps: 82.7

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 16s, fps: 1001.0, dfps: 148.0

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 2s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 14s, fps: 1041.9, dfps: 164.5
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
640x480 High 5.1 (CABAC/16 Ref) 1Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 3s, kernel: 0s, total: 3s, real: 16s, fps: 1150.4, dfps: 260.1

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 8s, fps: 2131.3, dfps: 495.4

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 7s, fps: 2864.0, dfps: 547.7
________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________________
720x480 High 5.1 (CABAC/10 Ref) 0.8Mbps

FFDshow Rev. 1960
User: 17s, kernel: 0s, total: 18s, real: 78s, fps: 1079.5, dfps: 250.1

Divx H264 Beta 1
User: 9s, kernel: 0s, total: 9s, real: 38s, fps: 2035.6, dfps: 510.3

CoreAVC 1.7 Pro
User: 7s, kernel: 0s, total: 7s, real: 33s, fps: 2579.9, dfps: 589.1
________________________________________________________________________
From these tests Divx H264 Beta 1 is on average 10% slower in dfps then CoreAVC 1.7 Pro on my system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitAl56K View Post
the_corona: Yesterday I had to repack our binary. I am wondering if it has affected performance. Stay tuned - I will check it out this morning.
Considering I joined the beta after you repacked it, did your testing find out if that was causing a performance hit or not?

Last edited by cyberbeing; 19th May 2008 at 22:19.
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Old 19th May 2008, 04:11   #95  |  Link
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It seems DivX H264 delivers around 15% more fps than ffdshow. Over here with a 720p source I got 10% more when renderer is VMR and 120% more when VMR9 - that is interesting to me because I use subtitles (VMR9).

DivX and CoreAVC similar, specially on VRM9.

Turning Deband ON in ffdshow (what is a must for me because the x264 issue with blocks on dark areas) drops it's speed by 40%. With DivX H264 there is no impact turning deblock on/off, but also the image does not change - I see the blocks. The same with CoreAVC (a little bit more blocks than DivX).


ffdshow:
110 fps (VMR) (CPU @ 80%)
100 fps (VMR9) (CPU @ 80%)

DivX H264
120 fps (VMR) (CPU @ 90%)
118 fps (VMR9) (CPU @ 65%) (Obs: deblock on/off, latency on/off)

CoreAVC
120 fps (VMR) (CPU @ 65%)
119 fps (VMR9) (CPU @ 70%)

CPU 6600@2.40GHz (dual-core) - 1GB RAM DDR2 400MHz - GeForce GTS 8600

Last edited by MarcioAB; 19th May 2008 at 13:28. Reason: included graphics card info
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Old 19th May 2008, 05:34   #96  |  Link
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I don't have CoreAVC installed right now, but here's ffdshow vs DivX h.264

Alvin.And.The.Chipmunks.720p:

DivX h.264
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 13s, fps: 812.8, dfps: 99.9

ffdshow
User: 30s, kernel: 0s, total: 30s, real: 30s, fps: 45.5, dfps: 45.4
Unhitched.S01E02.720p:

DivX h.264
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 10s, fps: 708.4, dfps: 133.5

ffdshow
User: 26s, kernel: 0s, total: 26s, real: 26s, fps: 55.7, dfps: 55.5

The.Office.US.S04E09.720p:

DivX h.264
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 1s, real: 12s, fps: 770.1, dfps: 120.5

ffdshow
User: 27s, kernel: 0s, total: 27s, real: 27s, fps: 53.8, dfps: 53.7

Superbad.720p:

DivX h.264
User: 1s, kernel: 0s, total: 2s, real: 13s, fps: 758.6, dfps: 116.9

ffdshow
User: 25s, kernel: 0s, total: 25s, real: 25s, fps: 59.7, dfps: 59.3
Tests using build 1723.

Last edited by KEROLiUKAS; 21st May 2008 at 02:54.
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Old 19th May 2008, 05:44   #97  |  Link
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KEROLIUKAS : you forgot to disable the postprocessing in ffdshow ? Or do you have a quad core ?
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Old 19th May 2008, 06:55   #98  |  Link
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thirding the question about linux- I would LOVE a fast linux h264 decoder that doesn't require hacked together code
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Old 19th May 2008, 08:11   #99  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inventive Software View Post
OK, I think I've signed up to DivX labs. It's been a while since I visited, but I figure since I follow it, I should try it. My desktop's about the same spec as bond's P3 monster, but slightly slower (Celeron 800 MHz), so I'm looking for a decoder that's faster than ffdshow_tryouts and competitive to CoreAVC. Who do I send the PM to?
DigitAl56k or SeaBass or myself. What account name did you use?
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Old 19th May 2008, 14:09   #100  |  Link
KEROLiUKAS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
KEROLIUKAS : you forgot to disable the postprocessing in ffdshow ? Or do you have a quad core ?

Ahhh, probably, i knew it couldn't be this good. I was running default settings on both.

AMD 4200+ x2 AM2


I'll update my results later without post proccesing, and hopefully some CoreAVC results.

Last edited by KEROLiUKAS; 19th May 2008 at 14:11. Reason: added last line
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