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Old 30th April 2014, 17:32   #1  |  Link
Pringles
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MeGui settings to encode a video recorded with a camera (AVCHD)

Hi,

I recorded with a friend's camera (Panasonic Lumix hybrid or reflex) a video in 1080p. Now since this is not my camera, I don't know how the video settings got set up. And when playing back this video on my computer, the framerate feels odd, it feels like watching a movie on a TV with the 100Hz option enabled which is really unpleasant to my eyes: it gives the impression the video playback is going faster than normal except that it's not. Strangley I checked the produced video (MTS) with MediaInfo and the framerate is normal (25fps). I'm not sure what gives this effect.

Code:
General
ID                                       : 0 (0x0)
Complete name                            : D:\Temp\00043.MTS
Format                                   : BDAV
Format/Info                              : Blu-ray Video
File size                                : 649 MiB
Duration                                 : 5mn 18s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 17.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 18.0 Mbps

Video
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : High@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 2 frames
Format settings, GOP                     : M=3, N=12
Codec ID                                 : 27
Duration                                 : 5mn 18s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 16.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 17.1 Mbps
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Interlaced
Scan order                               : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.313
Stream size                              : 615 MiB (95%)
When I encode this video with MeGui (deinterlace Yadif(order=-1), undot), the produced video seems to play at the normal speed but it feels like frames are missing.

If you want to download these files : https://app.box.com/s/zsmqk3nw1qzdjxcmi3ko

Edit: I initially uploaded sample files on youtube so you can easily see but youtube somehow corrects this framerate problem on the original file.

How can I reencode this video at the normal playback but without missing frames? Maybe I'm asking something impossible and I'll have to stick with what MeGui produces but please educate me

Thanks!

Last edited by Pringles; 30th April 2014 at 17:36.
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Old 1st May 2014, 12:07   #2  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pringles View Post
...
When I encode this video with MeGui (deinterlace Yadif(order=-1), undot), the produced video seems to play at the normal speed but it feels like frames are missing.
Try with Yadif(mode=1), double framerate (50 fps), and see the missing (half-)frames.
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Old 1st May 2014, 14:26   #3  |  Link
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I tried with Yadif(mode=1, order=1) and it produced a video at 50fps. The result feels like the original, with this 100Hz feeling I would like to get rid of. Is there a way to achieve it?
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Old 1st May 2014, 14:50   #4  |  Link
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with this 100Hz feeling
For those of us without fancy TVs, can you please explain this "feeling" a little more for us?
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Old 1st May 2014, 20:34   #5  |  Link
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Well, this option is supposed to make camera movement less jerky. When this option is enabled, camera movements are not "natural", and actors/people are moving in a weird way, like in the sample I posted in my original post. You can see there's a difference between the original sample and the MeGui sample. I just checked on wikipedia and it's apparently called Motion interpolation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_interpolation
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Old 1st May 2014, 20:56   #6  |  Link
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I still have no idea what you are talking about, "moving in a weird way".

You start with 10 seconds of poor, shaky interlaced video and single-rate deinterlace it. What do you expect to get? Worse garbage, of course.

Do what tebasuna51 suggested: double-rate deinterlace it and be happy that you have at least preserved the original motion (= temporal information).

Last edited by Guest; 1st May 2014 at 21:02.
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Old 2nd May 2014, 09:51   #7  |  Link
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Is not Motion_interpolation, please read about interlacing here: http://www.100fps.com/
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Old 5th May 2014, 10:31   #8  |  Link
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neuron2, I'm deeply sorry for the "garbage" footage I made you watch, give me your address so I can send you some money in compensation.

Anyway, so there's no good way to translate/convert an interlaced 50fps video into progressive 25fps without having a jerky picture?

I don't understand why my camera recording at 25fps (progressive) produces better results in term of fluidity than the video from another camera recording at 50fps (interlaced) that got converted into 25fps (progressive) and feels more like 12fps.
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Old 5th May 2014, 21:43   #9  |  Link
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I'm no expert on the subject..... I don't own a video camera..... but my guess is much of it is due to motion blur, or lack thereof.

When you de-interlace to 50fps you're retaining the most fluidity of motion, and I much prefer it, but some people don't like it as it doesn't look like "film".
When you de-interlace to 25fps you're not retaining the original fluidity of motion and you probably don't have the same motion blur as "film", but you have a "film" frame rate, so the result can look "jittery". That's my theory anyway.....

Maybe you could try de-interlacing with QTGMC. Getting it working can be a learning curve in itself and it's very, very, very slow, and it de-interlaces to 50fps by default (it really does look better ), but you can de-interlace to 25fps and it also has settings to simulate motion blur, which might give you a 25fps version with less of a "jittery" look and more of a "film" look.

I don't know how familiar with Avisynth you are but to increase motion blur while de-interlacing to 25fps with QTGMC, you might do it like this:

QTGMC(Preset="fast", FPSDivisor=2, ShutterBlur=1, ShutterAngleSrc=30, ShutterAngleOut=240)

There's instructions in the QTGMC HTML help file.
http://avisynth.nl/index.php/QTGMC
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156028
Once you have QTGMC working it's not hard to add it to the script MeGUI creates. If it's too slow at 1080p, using a faster speed preset may help. The default is "slower".

From the help file:
"By default QTGMC outputs video at "double-rate", twice the frame rate of the source. This is because there are two separate images (fields) in every frame, which the deinterlacing process restores in full. By setting FPSDivisor to 2, every second frame is dropped and the output frame rate is the same as the source ("single-rate")
Single-rate output may look a little stuttery, depending on how the source was filmed/created. Adding motion blur to each frame can help with this, smoothing the feel of the slower rate playback. This is done by setting ShutterBlur to 1,2 or 3, then specifying the shutter angle that you wish the output to simulate. However, as there may be some motion blur already in the source you also need to specify/estimate the shutter angle used in the source. Shutter angles range from 0 to 360, with 0 being perfectly sharp and 360 being fully blurred from one frame to next (artificial output shutter angles > 360 are supported to a very limited degree). Motion-blur can also be applied to double-rate output, but the effect is less noticable."


Someone else which more knowledge on the topic might be able to offer some better advice. Or advice on whether the camera can produce more of a "film look" in the first place.

Last edited by hello_hello; 5th May 2014 at 22:11.
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Old 5th May 2014, 23:25   #10  |  Link
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neuron2, I'm deeply sorry for the "garbage" footage I made you watch, give me your address so I can send you some money in compensation.
Your negative sarcasm is noted. Don't shoot the messenger, friend, especially if you think you might need him again some day.

You're not going to make a shaky, handheld, interlaced video clip look like film. Film is shot with a tripod or dolley. And if you single-rate deinterlace to get close to film rate, then you lose spatial resolution.

Get a tripod and shoot at 24p/25p. But why do you want film-look for that content anyway?

Last edited by Guest; 5th May 2014 at 23:43.
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