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Old 1st October 2008, 11:34   #1  |  Link
aand
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huffyuv --> x264 lossl. = broken?


This happens when I use a huffyuv avi and x264 lossless compression. If I use CRF there's no artefacts.
Job commandline:
Code:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\megui\tools\x264\x264.exe" --qp 0 --nf --subme 1 --partitions p8x8,b8x8,i4x4 --merange 12 --threads auto --thread-input --sar 1:1 --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "E:\EM 3 Derain GradFunk.mkv" "E:\EM 3 Derain GradFunk.avs"
I'm using Skystrife's build 994.
The script:
Code:
setmemorymax(400)
aviSource("D:\temp2.avi", audio=false).converttoyv12()
Derainbow()
GradFunkMirror(strength=3)
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Old 1st October 2008, 11:45   #2  |  Link
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Are you using CoreAVC to decode?

http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;...4100ca26a29d92:
Quote:
Replace High 4:4:4 profile lossless with High 4:4:4 Predictive.
This improves lossless compression by about 4-25% depending on source.
The benefit is generally higher for intra-only compression.
Also add support for 8x8dct and i8x8 blocks in lossless mode; this improves compression very slightly.
In some rare cases 8x8dct can hurt compression in lossless mode, but its usually helpful, albeit marginally.
Note that 8x8dct is only available with CABAC as it is never useful with CAVLC.
High 4:4:4 Predictive replaced the previous profile in a 2007 revision to the H.264 standard.
The only known compliant decoder for this profile is the latest version of CoreAVC.
As I write this, JM does not actually correctly decode this profile.
Hopefully this lack of support will soon change with this commit, as x264 will be (to my knowledge) the first compliant encoder.
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Old 1st October 2008, 12:52   #3  |  Link
aand
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Are you saying I should? (I didn't understand almost anything from the list)
I was using ffdshow.

OK, I've tried CoreAVC and it looks ok (the weird artefacts are gone) but I don't like the colours, everything is too dark.

I don't understand why ffdshow's libavcodec wouldn't work now. What's different? AVC lossless--->AVC lossless works OK.

Last edited by aand; 1st October 2008 at 13:03.
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Old 1st October 2008, 13:19   #4  |  Link
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aand
One lossless has been replaced with another. For now, only last version of CoreAVC supports it.
what is not clear?

Last edited by Keiyakusha; 1st October 2008 at 13:22.
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Old 1st October 2008, 14:01   #5  |  Link
nm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aand View Post
OK, I've tried CoreAVC and it looks ok (the weird artefacts are gone) but I don't like the colours, everything is too dark.
CoreAVC allows you to manually set PC/TV level conversions if necessary.
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Old 1st October 2008, 14:46   #6  |  Link
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FFMpeg is not yet compliant with this revision of the h.264 standard (the previous H4:4:4 has been deprecated, ie it doesn't exist anymore in the standard)
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Old 1st October 2008, 16:19   #7  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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And the first complaints appear!

/waits eagerly for ffmpeg to support Predictive Lossless
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Old 1st October 2008, 19:03   #8  |  Link
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So is Lossless 4:2:0 still around then? (i.e x264 -q0)
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Old 1st October 2008, 20:37   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inventive Software View Post
So is Lossless 4:2:0 still around then? (i.e x264 -q0)
x264 has never supported any colorspace other than 4:2:0, and probably won't for a long time.
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Old 1st October 2008, 23:05   #10  |  Link
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So, forgive the ignorance, but what's the difference between 4:2:0 and Predictive 4:4:4?
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Old 1st October 2008, 23:08   #11  |  Link
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x264 doesn't actually have lossless predictive 4:4:4 I believe, just 4:2:0. Only difference is we use 12 bits instead of 24. (YV12 vs YV24, in other words)
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Old 1st October 2008, 23:10   #12  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sagekilla View Post
x264 doesn't actually have lossless predictive 4:4:4 I believe, just 4:2:0. Only difference is we use 12 bits instead of 24. (YV12 vs YV24, in other words)
Um, then what's this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by x264 GIT changelog
Replace High 4:4:4 profile lossless with High 4:4:4 Predictive.

This improves lossless compression by about 4-25% depending on source.

The benefit is generally higher for intra-only compression.

Also add support for 8x8dct and i8x8 blocks in lossless mode; this improves compression very slightly.

In some rare cases 8x8dct can hurt compression in lossless mode, but its usually helpful, albeit marginally.

Note that 8x8dct is only available with CABAC as it is never useful with CAVLC.

High 4:4:4 Predictive replaced the previous profile in a 2007 revision to the H.264 standard.

The only known compliant decoder for this profile is the latest version of CoreAVC.

As I write this, JM does not actually correctly decode this profile.

Hopefully this lack of support will soon change with this commit, as x264 will be (to my knowledge) the first compliant encoder.
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Old 1st October 2008, 23:15   #13  |  Link
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Dark Shikari's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
x264 has never supported any colorspace other than 4:2:0, and probably won't for a long time.
I -believe- we don't actually use 4:4:4 precision but we do use predictive lossless.
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Old 1st October 2008, 23:18   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagekilla View Post
I -believe- we don't actually use 4:4:4 precision but we do use predictive lossless.
That's my interpretation as well...
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Old 2nd October 2008, 00:17   #15  |  Link
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High 4:4:4 is the name of the profile. It allows any colorspace from 4:0:0 to 4:4:4. x264 uses 4:2:0.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:14   #16  |  Link
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lol funny marketing gag you can advertise with High 4:4:4 but only support 4:2:0 hehe i guess it isn't really allowed in the commercial world though as it would be highly misleading, or is it ?
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:19   #17  |  Link
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Originally Posted by CruNcher View Post
lol funny marketing gag you can advertise with High 4:4:4 but only support 4:2:0 hehe i guess it isn't really allowed in the commercial world though as it would be highly misleading, or is it ?
What, am I supposed to name profiles that don't exist?

"High 4:4:4" was the old profile that allowed lossless.

No other profile allowed lossless.

"High 4:4:4 Predictive" is the new profile that allows lossless.

No other profile allows lossless.

Do you want me to lie or something, will that make you happy? "x264 supports High 4:2:0 Predictive Profile." There, I just lied, is that fine with you now?
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:29   #18  |  Link
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Clarity would be helpful, since specifically applying that change, with that commit comment, assumes complete 4:4:4 Lossless encoding support in x264, which is incorrect, since x264 only supports 4:2:0. An average joe who wants to encode losslessly with x264 would assume, with that change, he gets 4:4:4 support, which is incorrect; this is without knowing what the spec profile allows.

What chances are there of x264 supporting other different YUV colourspaces?
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:31   #19  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inventive Software View Post
Clarity would be helpful, since specifically applying that change, with that commit comment, assumes complete 4:4:4 Lossless encoding support in x264, which is incorrect, since x264 only supports 4:2:0. What chances are there of x264 supporting other different YUV colourspaces?
Maybe clarity would help, but just given the size of the commit its rather obvious it doesn't add 4:4:4 support

Alternate colorspace support would be nice, but would require all sorts of modifications across the code, mainly changing constant shifts to non-constant ones. It would be really really really annoying to do. I'd like it, though. Another problem, also, is that libavcodec doesn't support anything other than 4:2:0 either.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 02:36   #20  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Maybe clarity would help, but just given the size of the commit its rather obvious it doesn't add 4:4:4 support
I take things at face value (yeah, dumb, but it shows some shortcomings by other people). That commit made me think x264 had lossless 4:4:4 encoding, which from previous experience and reading would mean a very major rewrite of x264's internal workings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Alternate colorspace support would be nice, but would require all sorts of modifications across the code, mainly changing constant shifts to non-constant ones. It would be really really really annoying to do. I'd like it, though. Another problem, also, is that libavcodec doesn't support anything other than 4:2:0 either.
When one has new support, the other is usually quick to follow. I'd love to say "hey, why don't I work on that", but it would require about 2 or 3 years more understanding of not just x264 but also colourspaces in general, and efficient programming. All 3 take time.
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