Authoring subtitles in Blu-ray sup format

[an3k]

Hello,

I'm looking for a authoring software that let me create subtitles in the Blu-ray sup format. I know about Subtitle Edit but sadly this tool isn't sophisticated enough for what I need to do for this project. Don't get me wrong, I love that tool but afaik it cannot do what I have to do.

TL;DR: I need to place all subtitles at a given position (very easy) but also a few subtitles somewhere else in the 1080p frame (still easy but manual labor) but some of these have to be shown together with a second subtitle (and that's the tricky part).

My whole workflow would be to use Subtitle Edit to OCR the sub/idx source to get the plain text and export as Blu-ray sup to get a basic placement for 99% of all subtitles. Then I'd edit individual subtitles with BDsup2sub so I can shift a single subtitle around. So far so good but I know that neither BDsup2sub nor BDsup2sub++ can handle two concurrent subtitles very well.

Thanks a lot in advance. Love this forum and the community!

[an3k]

I tried TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6. It works so far but creates full frame subtitles and I'm afraid these will cause some troubles since I've never seen those before and it doesn't allow me to specify if a subtitle is forced or not. Also, it doesn't allow me to export the subtitle as Blu-ray sup or at least XML/PNG so I have to create a BDMV just so I can demux the subtitle.

I also checked Scenarist BD but they can't even list the features of their software on the website and there's no trial so I have no clue what's up with that.

[von Suppé]

Please correct me if I don't interpret your intentions correctly, but I don't know if
BD specs would allow for PGS streams containing subtitle-images with overlapping display times.

[an3k]

Originally Posted by von Suppé

BD specs would allow for PGS streams containing subtitle-images with overlapping display times.

I don't know about that but usually software will create three subtitle images for two overlapping subtitles.

Subtitle 1: Hello (00:00:00 - 00:02:00)
Subtitle 2: World (00:01:00 - 00:03:00)

First image shows just "Hello", second image shows "Hello" and "World", third image shows just "World". You end up with three entries.
00:00:00 - 00:01:00 - hello.png
00:01:00 - 00:02:00 - helloworld.png
00:02:00 - 00:03:00 - world.png

Subtitle Edit knows how to handle such cases as well as TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6. BDsup2sub is known to have problems with such subtitles.

I mean, the whole idea behind BDN format is really simple: an image is placed in a X/Y grid. Image normally contains text but could contain anything. XML specifies when and where the image should be.

[an3k]

After I had to fiddle with audio streams again I noticed how smooth and easy processing subtitles actually is.

Subtitles
1) OCR of sub/idx with Subtitle Edit
2) Import as srt in TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6
3) Fixing timings / sync / overlaps / placement in TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6
4) Creating a BDMV out of the Project (I just need the subtitles but exporting them is only possible as .xsubtitle or .srt)
5) Extracting the Blu-ray PGS streams as .sup using tsMuxerGUI

Audio
6) eac3to DVD .ac3 to .wav
7) Fucking around in laggy Audacity so DVD Audio fits the Blu-ray video
8) Saving as .wav
9) eac3to .wav to .wav (because the .wav Audacity creates has no Channel Layout)
10) eac3to .wav to .ac3

Video
11) x264

I found EZTitles 6 ... maybe that software can do what I want without enforcing me to create a whole BDMV ... but the licensing fee is hardcore.

[von Suppé]

Did you try the "Import SUP for edit" feature in Subtitle Edit? It's not text-based, but works with the images within a SUP file.
You can edit start & end-times, X & Y coordinates (dragging supported), and flag/unflag forced. Also the list-view and video preview come in handy.

[an3k]

Yeah, I've tested it. It's handy and the Forced flagging is a feature TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6 doesn't have, but sadly it doesn't "split" two subtitles that are merged into a single image so that I can move only one of them and not both together.

Today I also received my Trial for EZTitles 6. Compared to other software it's really expensive (2800 € for the Ultimate edition which is the only one that can create BDN/XML) and way too complex and also too complicated.
Simply moving subtitles around is not possible but you can move them in rows and lines ... one by one. It may be a configuration issue but a live preview (video + audio + subtitle) is somehow not possible. You can play a video file with audio but somehow the subtitle doesn't update.

I have to admit that TMPGEnc Authoring Works 6 is extremely good since it's really easy to get to know it (you can just start using it) and to use the subtitle editor itself. It shows everything you need and nothing you don't need. I guess I'll get a full license and write the japanese a friendly email with three "nice to haves" (no full frame images, Forced toggle, directly export as BND/XML or Blu-ray sup).

I could post screenshots if anyone is interested.

[wswartzendruber]

I have been doing some work with PGS bitstreams. PGS is the formal name for Blu-ray subtitles.

PGS has this concept called an epoch. An epoch consists graphics being placed on the display, (possibly) updated, and then removed. While an epoch can (seemingly) have any number of graphics on the screen at a time, I have found (thus far) that only one epoch can be in effect at a given time. Doing multiple objects with their own timings would have to (seemingly) be emulated across multiple epochs.

There are lots of "seemingly" true facts stated here because PGS is horribly documented. The official patent for it is not always adhered to by commercially distributed bitstreams (an object in an epoch cannot have its size change, yet this routinely happens in practice).