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Old 2nd June 2003, 00:23   #1  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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Anamorphic encoding in matroska 720 x 432 with AAC 5.1

Hi,

i decided to upload a nice matroska test sample, trying to show the advantages of anamorphic encodings. Please, if you are not interested in this subject at all, dont download the file, i guess my provider will kill me if the bandwidth i expect will become reality ( the sample has about 10 MB ).

Here the Link ( use 'save target as' and "StarwarsAAC5_1anamorphicXviD.mkv" as file name, including the ", to get the correct extension ) and the details :

Video :

Res : 720 x 432 , anamorphic ;
Output res on playback : 720 x 304 ( 1:2.35 )
Codec : XviD 2 pass ( I like both, DivX5 and XviD )
Settings : Bitrate 1250 kbps, VHQ 4, 5 B-frames, packed bitstream, QPEL, h.263 quant
Framerate : 25 fps ( PAL source 720 x 576 )

Audio :

AAC 5.1, 220 kbps, 44.1 KHz, PsyTel aacenc 2.15

Note : sound quality sucks, there is still a bug in this old version of aaceenc.exe, but the new NeroDigital AAC pluginwas released today, and it should give nice results

Total :

2 x 700 MB ( No subs yet, i was too lazy to rip them ), but it wouldnt add much


How to make it :

1. Encode Movie in 2-pass using VirtualdubMod, into AVI or MKV ( doesnt matter ). The important thing here that is different from making a 'normal' rip, is that you dont use any resizing, you just crop the picture ( either in AVISynth/Gknot or in VdubMod directly ). Make sure that the final encoding resolution will follow the multiples of 8 rule. This may make it necessary to crop 2 - 3 lines into the picture on top and bottom ( worst case ), but with > 400 lines in total you wont notice that, i promise
2. Add the original AC3 to the streams list in VdubMod, mark the start and end frame and mux it into another MKV
3. Demux the AC3 from this new MKV
4. Feed the AC3 into BeSweet with the -6chwav switch, normal azid settings
5. Feed this WAV into aacenc.exe ( ver 2.15 ), with the follwing CLI : E:\FlaskDivX\AACencoder\aacenc.exe -br 220 -if E:\FlaskDivX\AACencoder\starwars.wav
6. Download latest mkvtoolnix from Mosu's site, search for the win32 binaries of it ( cmpiled with cygwin ): Direct link for 0.4.2 : http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkv...lnix-0.4.2.zip
7. Use the following CLI :
E:\FlaskDivX\mkvtoolnix\mkvmerge.exe -o testAR.mkv --aspect-ratio 2.35 testnosound.mkv starwars.aac
If you'r not a CLI expert ( like i am ), simply copy mkvtoolnix and the sound.aac and the video.mkv into the c:\ root directory ...

For playback :

1. Download the Core Media Player from Corecoded.com . This is not mandatory, as you may do the resizing in other players also manually. Then goto 'settings' 'audio settings' and disable the Equalizer ( tickbox )


2. get the latest alpha matroska CDL plugin and install it . Note this is highly experimental !!

3. Download and install the newest matroska DirectShow parser ( 0.4.2 ) from http://www.matroska.org/announce.html

4. get the binaries of CoreAAC, the 5.1 capable AAC DirectShow filter, from Rarewares, courtesy to rjamorim

5. If you dont have a 5.1 setup ( like me ), you will need the great channel downmixer filter from trombettworks, or you cant hear sound

Tell me what you think guys !! . I plan to upload another sample file soon, being the same file with exactly same settings, but resized to 720 x 304 and with MPEG quant, for comparison.

Last edited by ChristianHJW; 2nd June 2003 at 13:26.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 00:59   #2  |  Link
CaptainCarrot
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Sounds cool, i'll download it and have a look (tomorrow), but what you say about the aacaudio is something about which i just posted in the audio-forum: Do you really get improved quality at the same bitrate compared to AC3?
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Old 2nd June 2003, 01:03   #3  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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For a typical 2 CD rip i'd probably go for the original AC3, but this is a long movie and the AC3 bitrate is 448 kbps, so this will result in a 450 MB audio file ...

menno an Ivan from Nero are promising the new NeroDigital AAC encoder plugin will sound undistinguishable from the AC3 at > 240 kbps, and 160 kbps is possible with very good results ...
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Old 2nd June 2003, 02:22   #4  |  Link
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The great thing about anmorphic resizeing is not to resize from 720 x 432 to 720 x 304 but to resize to 1024 x 432. See this way you get a lot more resolution and just a little loss in quality.

doing it the other way (making the video smaller) is useless you wouldn't get any adventage of anamorphic.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 04:02   #5  |  Link
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Or not?
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Old 2nd June 2003, 05:02   #6  |  Link
31 Flavas
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That's how I do it RV9.

Encode 720x480 -> 888x480 for 1.85:1 content
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Old 2nd June 2003, 08:27   #7  |  Link
Teegedeck
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Quote:
Originally posted by 31 Flavas
That's how I do it RV9.

Encode 720x480 -> 888x480 for 1.85:1 content
I used to do something like that. But you do realize that this way (720x --> 888x) resizing really becomes an unnecessary filter in the chain?
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Last edited by Teegedeck; 2nd June 2003 at 08:47.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 08:42   #8  |  Link
Gaia
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Nice little clip but Core Media player crashes. Had to use Zoom Player to play this clip.

This doesn't belong to here but TCMP still crashes random a LOT under Win98, i think it's time to uninstall it.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 09:00   #9  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaia Nice little clip but Core Media player crashes. Had to use Zoom Player to play this clip.
This doesn't belong to here but TCMP still crashes random a LOT under Win98, i think it's time to uninstall it.
Gaia, if you remove the matroska CDL plugin from TCMP's plugin directory, will it crahs also ? Note that jcsston's CDL is highly experimental as i said, and everybody in the dev team is on 2k/XP, so it may well be that it doesnt work at all on Win98, due to the very same reasons as for our DShow parser, the missing unicode support in Win98.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 09:10   #10  |  Link
Gaia
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChristianHJW
Gaia, if you remove the matroska CDL plugin from TCMP's plugin directory, will it crahs also ? Note that jcsston's CDL is highly experimental as i said, and everybody in the dev team is on 2k/XP, so it may well be that it doesnt work at all on Win98, due to the very same reasons as for our DShow parser, the missing unicode support in Win98.
Actually i found reason for crash. Just had to disable somenthing. CDL seems to work under Win98 but you should really take care that your applications and filters works under all OS's. It seems everything CoreCodec team has released so far have had first major problems with Win98/ME. I even couldn't register first builds of COREaccDs. . Just tried latest and it worked really nicely. You get easily bad reputation for yourself because there are still lots of Win98/ME users. I use windows only for some gaming and encoding, Linux for everything else. That's the reason why i am not going to upgrade.

Anyway thanks for your great work

Last edited by Gaia; 2nd June 2003 at 09:29.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 09:38   #11  |  Link
robUx4
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Bah, we already have a bad reputation so we don't need to care anymore about that

It seems your problem are due to TCMP, not the CDL itself. Also I'm not aware of any problem with our DSF under W98 now (any different than on W2K/XP). It's just sad that W98 has no built-in support for Unicode.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 09:41   #12  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaia I use windows only for some gaming and encoding, Linux for everything else. That's the reason why i am not going to upgrade.
Latest mplayer from CVS, compiled with matroska support, will play the test samples nicely, and even with correct AR ... dont know if AAC 5.1 is also working already, but 2.0 AAC does for sure ( according to Mosu ) . On Mosu's site ( link above ) you will also find precompiled RPMs for some Linux distro's, including libmatroska compilation.

Quote:
Anyway thanks for your great work
Well, the only problem we have with Win9x/ME is that all our code is made to support unicode filenames already ( Asian/Arabian people do love us for that ), and that 9x/ME doesnt support unicode natively ....
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Old 2nd June 2003, 09:49   #13  |  Link
Gaia
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Quote:
Latest mplayer from CVS, compiled with matroska support, will play the test samples nicely, and even with correct AR ... dont know if AAC 5.1 is also working already, but 2.0 AAC does for sure ( according to Mosu ) . On Mosu's site ( link above ) you will also find precompiled RPMs for some Linux distro's, including libmatroska compilation.
I am aware of that. It's just that i don't have TV near my Linux box so i mainly use my windows system for movies. Mplayer is best Linux player and matroska support works, tried it yesterday.

Last edited by Gaia; 2nd June 2003 at 09:51.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 10:02   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChristianHJW
For a typical 2 CD rip i'd probably go for the original AC3, but this is a long movie and the AC3 bitrate is 448 kbps, so this will result in a 450 MB audio file ...

menno an Ivan from Nero are promising the new NeroDigital AAC encoder plugin will sound undistinguishable from the AC3 at > 240 kbps, and 160 kbps is possible with very good results ...
Then why not try MPC standard in future... ( because currently mkv doesn't support MPC....... )

And i am still waiting for Sv8......... having dreaming about it for 2 years.....
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Old 2nd June 2003, 10:13   #15  |  Link
robUx4
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We will, with no doubt, be the first container to support MPC as I'm helping Frank Klemm on it, he is somehow part of Matroska (a major contributor to the format) and will rely on matroska for everything non codec related.

But everything starting from SV8 is begin rewritten from scratch with a lot of C++. Don't expect anything before a few months.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 10:14   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
The great thing about anmorphic resizeing is not to resize from 720 x 432 to 720 x 304 but to resize to 1024 x 432. See this way you get a lot more resolution and just a little loss in quality.
This is really kind of funny, you're all talking about resolutions even though it's all about aspect ratios.
Christion didn't resize to 720x304, he just cropped the black bars and set the aspect ration. The final res depends on the screen resolution when you watch it, so that'd be 1024x432, or 1520x641 in my case. All the resizing is done during playback.

Quote:
That's how I do it RV9.
Same thing with RV9, using a higher output res than the original input res is a workaround to set the aspectration there. If you tell producer to resize from 720x432 to 1024x432 it won't resize but encode the video at 720x432 and set the aspect ratio. During playback the player will then resize the video to the screen res with correct AR.

Quote:
I used to do something like that. But you do realize that this way (720x --> 888x) resizing really becomes an unnecessary filter in the chain?
As I said, there's no resizing during encoding with both methods, it's all done at playback time.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 12:40   #17  |  Link
Wilbert
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About some links in the first post:

1) mkvtoolnix-0.4.1.zip is not available, when clicking on that link. I found one here: http://www.bunkus.org/videotools/mkvtoolnix/win32/.

2) Download and install the newest matroska DirectShow parser ( 0.4.2 ) from http://www.matroska.org/anounce.html. Better change that into .../announce.html.

Last edited by Wilbert; 2nd June 2003 at 12:45.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 12:49   #18  |  Link
ChristianHJW
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wilbert About some links in the first post:
.. thanks, fixed !
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Old 2nd June 2003, 16:49   #19  |  Link
31 Flavas
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Quote:
Originally posted by Teegedeck

I used to do something like that. But you do realize that this way (720x --> 888x) resizing really becomes an unnecessary filter in the chain?
How so? RV9 encoder will encode the clip at 720x480, but tell RealPlayer to playback at 888x480.
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Old 2nd June 2003, 16:59   #20  |  Link
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Important info:
Get the latest coreaac filter version here (compiled by john33)! the one on rarewares is already out-of-date

btw: couldnt be the function of Trombettworks' ChannelDownmixer included in CoreAAC to make it automatically work on non 5.1 setups? would make it perfect...
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