Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > General > Audio encoding

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 30th May 2022, 17:43   #121  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
I have found a (I think) rare 6.1 audio DTS from Ghost in the shell 2.0 BD.

mediainfo:
Code:
General
Complete name                  : F:\In\1_26 Ghost in the shell 2.0 (Dynit)\[jpn]6116.dts
Format                         : DTS ES XXCH XLL
Format/Info                    : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                : DTS-HD Master Audio
File size                      : 1.26 GiB
Overall bit rate mode          : Variable / Constant / Constant

Audio
Format                         : DTS ES XXCH XLL
Format/Info                    : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                : DTS-HD Master Audio
Bit rate mode                  : Variable / Constant / Constant
Bit rate                       : Unknown / 1 509 kb/s / 1 509 kb/s
Channel(s)                     : 7 channels / 7 channels / 6 channels
Channel layout                 : C L R Ls Rs LFE Cb / C L R Ls Rs Cb LFE / C L R Ls Rs LFE
Sampling rate                  : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                     : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                      : 16 bits
Compression mode               : Lossless / Lossy / Lossy
eac3to:
Code:
DTS Master Audio, 6.1 channels, 16 bits, 48kHz
(core: DTS-ES, 6.1 channels, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
Can you suggest me the correct decoding channel parameters for it, in ffmpeg format?
Have you extracted the lossy DTS-ES core from the lossless DTS-HD MA audio stream?
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2022, 17:56   #122  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
Have you extracted the lossy DTS-ES core from the lossless DTS-HD MA audio stream?
Nope, just demuxed the 2 streams from m2ts.

I think eac3to went nuts.

I forgot to say: I need the wave remapping (if any) to have the correct 6.1 (or whatever) DD+ TotalCode Studio (or Audition) encoding.

ffprobe gives me:
Code:
  Stream #0:0: Audio: dts (DTS-HD MA), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), s32p (24 bit)

  Stream #0:0: Audio: dts (DTS-HD MA), 48000 Hz, 6.1, s16p
__________________
@turment on Telegram

Last edited by tormento; 30th May 2022 at 18:07.
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2022, 19:48   #123  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,516
You don't need nothing to remap for the first one 5.1

The second one (16 bits) is decoded to 6.1 (FL FR FC LFE BC SL SR) and if you want to encode to EAC3 6.1 (L,R,C,LFE,Ls,Rs,Cs) you must remap the BC in wav to the last position:

ffmpeg -i "[jpn]6116.dts" -filter_complex "pan=6.1|c0=c0|c1=c1|c2=c2|c3=c3|c4=c5|c5=c6|c6=c4" -acodec pcm_s16le "6.1_Channels_R.w64"

for Audition or, for TotalCode Studio with
-rf64 auto -acodec pcm_s16le "6.1_Channels_R.wav"
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2022, 20:07   #124  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
for Audition or, for TotalCode Studio with
-rf64 auto -acodec pcm_s16le "6.1_Channels_R.wav"
Thanks a lot.

I was literally waiting for your help
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 1st June 2022, 12:56   #125  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by tormento View Post
DTS Master Audio, 5.1 channels, 24 bits, 48kHz
(core: DTS-ES, 5.1 channels, 1509kbps, 48kHz)
Seems the first one [ita] can be (DTS-ES) a matrixed 6.1, there are only 5.1 physical channels but maybe you can enable the EX flag when encode the 5.1 (without remap).

In Audition: BitStream Information -> Dolby Digital Surround EX mode -> Enabled
Maybe TotalCode Studio can set that flag also, I don't remember.
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th June 2022, 19:34   #126  |  Link
pcroland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hungary
Posts: 103
I created a wrapper for DEE's DD, DDP and TrueHD encoder: Doom9, GitHub
pcroland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th June 2022, 10:35   #127  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcroland View Post
I created a wrapper for DEE's DD, DDP and TrueHD encoder
That is awesome.

I have tried and it works flawlessly.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2022, 09:13   #128  |  Link
tormento
Acid fr0g
 
tormento's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,243
@tebasuna51

I was thinking about using Dolby Reference Player to properly decode audio. Did you ever used it? I think it should be launched from CLI for the decoding part.
__________________
@turment on Telegram
tormento is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th June 2022, 09:31   #129  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,516
I will test it but I don't have much time now.
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2022, 14:11   #130  |  Link
Enverex
Registered User
 
Enverex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: UK
Posts: 4
My god, I can finally post.

Anyway, I got the Plex DDP encoder working standalone and creating 7.1 content. Everything works great and correct, except for ONE issue. It appears to be adding forced processing to the audio in some way - it sounds like dialogue enhancement or something. Every time there's audio in the center channel (typically dialogue) it abruptly ducks the volume of the surround speakers and unducks it the moment the center channel goes quiet again.

No dynamic compression, enhancement, etc is enabled on the listening end, so this effect seems like it's getting hard baked into the audio and is ruining what would otherwise be perfect 7.1 encodes.

Anyone know why this may be happening and how to stop EAE from doing it?
Enverex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2022, 09:10   #131  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enverex View Post
... it sounds like dialogue enhancement or something. Every time there's audio in the center channel (typically dialogue) it abruptly ducks the volume of the surround speakers and unducks it the moment the center channel goes quiet again.
It is well know than Plex encoder add Dynamic Range Compression to the eac3 tracks, and I don't know how avoid that.

Quote:
No dynamic compression, enhancement, etc is enabled on the listening end,
By default the decoders must obey the DRC info and the players must disable explicitly the DRC to avoid that effect.
What is the player used?
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2022, 12:32   #132  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
It is well know than Plex encoder add Dynamic Range Compression to the eac3 tracks, and I don't know how avoid that.


By default the decoders must obey the DRC info and the players must disable explicitly the DRC to avoid that effect.
What is the player used?
The way it is done in ffmpeg decoder itself is -drc_scale 0. You do not need to avoid that in encoding. See https://patchwork.ffmpeg.org/project...mbs@rcombs.me/


Ffmpeg's encoder has never supported generating it.
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2022, 19:03   #133  |  Link
pcroland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hungary
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
It is well know than Plex encoder add Dynamic Range Compression to the eac3 tracks, and I don't know how avoid that.


By default the decoders must obey the DRC info and the players must disable explicitly the DRC to avoid that effect.
What is the player used?
With DEE you can only choose from these DRC settings:
['film_light', 'film_standard', 'music_light', 'music_standard', 'speech']
You can't disable it in any way.

When it comes to dialnorm, you can set it between -31 and -1dB, and 0 will automatically calculate it (and you can't skip measrement even if you set it manually). You can also set a metering_mode and a speech_threshold for it, but they produce bit identical files no matter what you set these.
pcroland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 00:01   #134  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcroland View Post
With DEE you can only choose from these DRC settings:
['film_light', 'film_standard', 'music_light', 'music_standard', 'speech']
You can't disable it in any way.

When it comes to dialnorm, you can set it between -31 and -1dB, and 0 will automatically calculate it (and you can't skip measrement even if you set it manually). You can also set a metering_mode and a speech_threshold for it, but they produce bit identical files no matter what you set these.
'You can't disable it in any way."

The whole point of DRC (not really dialnorm, that is separate) is that you can remove the compression if you do not care about your neighbours.
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 06:46   #135  |  Link
pcroland
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hungary
Posts: 103
I know you can disable it in other encoders but not with DEE for some reason.
pcroland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 10:52   #136  |  Link
tebasuna51
Moderator
 
tebasuna51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Spain
Posts: 6,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcroland View Post
I know you can disable it in other encoders but not with DEE for some reason.
If DEE can't use the None preset at least use always the Music Light preset.
Code:
DRC six presets available to choose from, including None.

                    Music Light        Music Standard        Film Light        Film Standard          Speech
                 dB range   (ratio)  dB range   (ratio)  dB range   (ratio)  dB range   (ratio)  dB range   (ratio)
                 ---------- -------  ---------- -------  ---------- -------  ---------- -------  ---------- -------
Max Boost (fix):  < -65     (12 dB)  < -55      (12 dB)  < -53      ( 6 dB)  < -43      ( 6 dB)  < -50      (15 dB)
Boost Range:     -65 to -41 (2:1)    -55 to -31 (2:1)    -53 to -41 (2:1)    -43 to -31 (2:1)    -50 to -31 (2:1)
Null Band Width: -41 to -21 (1:1)    -31 to -26 (1:1)    -41 to -21 (1:1)    -31 to -26 (1:1)    -31 to -26 (1:1)
Early Cut Range:  nothing            -26 to -16 (2:1)    -21 to -11 (2:1)    -26 to -16 (2:1)    -26 to -16 (2:1)
Cut Range:       -21 to +9  (2:1)    -16 to +4  (20:1)   -11 to +4  (20:1)   -16 to +4  (20:1)   -16 to +4  (20:1)
Not problem with Max Boost below -65 dB, the big Null Band.
And without the ratio 20:1, the culprit of abrupt volume changes.
Attached Images
 
__________________
BeHappy, AviSynth audio transcoder.

Last edited by tebasuna51; 5th August 2022 at 11:00.
tebasuna51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 17:08   #137  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcroland View Post
I know you can disable it in other encoders but not with DEE for some reason.
I was talking about decoder. You can disable it in a decoder. DRC is required to get good quality in AN ENCODER. FFmpeg not having it may be one of key reasons it perfoms bad for eac3.
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 17:14   #138  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 435
If you encode flac to eac3 to get decoder close to flac you need to turn off DRC in the decoder. See this audacity patch, that uses ffmpeg and requires drc_scale 0. Last comment is mine: https://github.com/audacity/audacity/issues/631
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 18:13   #139  |  Link
Balling
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51 View Post
Only lossless encodes (TrueHD, DTS-MA, FLAC,...) have a bitdepth

Lossy encodes don't have bitdepth. Decoders work internally in float format, eac3to can output until 64 bits float, but it is enough 24 bits int (human ear can difference only to 20 bits).


TrueHD is always 24 bit, it does not have a bitdepth by your definition. Flac can be even 8 bit.
Balling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th August 2022, 20:20   #140  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
Life's clearer in 4K UHD
 
SeeMoreDigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Notts, UK
Posts: 12,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balling View Post
TrueHD is always 24 bit, it does not have a bitdepth by your definition.
A fair amount has been padded from 16 to 24-bit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balling View Post
Flac can be even 8 bit.
Maybe, but only if the source was 8-bit.... But who would do that? Certainly no commercial provider!
__________________
| I've been testing hardware media playback devices and software A/V encoders and decoders since 2001 | My Network Layout & A/V Gear |
SeeMoreDigital is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
eac3

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.