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Old 9th April 2022, 14:43   #62941  |  Link
x7007
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I understand the issue of 10bit windowed mode.

If you have different Prender queue settings for


something bugged with this thing.. I have more than a system to handle what I watch 1080p and sometimes it just goes loco and doesn't fill.



This setting doesn't work, only when it's selected I can see something change


Last edited by x7007; 9th April 2022 at 14:47.
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Old 9th April 2022, 23:27   #62942  |  Link
Sunspark
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flossy_cake: I raised this recently in a player thread. Some series that are encoded at 1920x800 are being played back at an aspect ratio that is slightly off, where circles look wider than tall, etc. and manually changing the aspect ratio makes it a little better. The response was that this is an issue with whoever did the encoding. So, I agree with that. It's not a madvr renderer issue, but either the decoder, the encoder or the player.

I've already deleted them so I can't test this second, but why don't you try testing with a different decoder/renderer/player chain on those files of yours with the Microsoft Film&TV/Movies&TV app? Also VLC which is another independent playback chain. If the issue is still there with both, then you have your answer that it's the encoder.
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Old 11th April 2022, 18:15   #62943  |  Link
kasper93
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Is there comprehensive chroma upscaling comparison somewhere? I kind of remember strengths and weaknesses of current options, but would be nice to have reference in one place.

Last edited by kasper93; 11th April 2022 at 18:28.
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Old 11th April 2022, 20:00   #62944  |  Link
Sunspark
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Is there comprehensive chroma upscaling comparison somewhere? I kind of remember strengths and weaknesses of current options, but would be nice to have reference in one place.
I was reading about this recently and playing around. I am able to see differences between them, but an important consideration for those on on older systems and most laptops with igpus is that the higher settings are not worth using because if it makes your fans spin up creating a loud whine, then it's not worth using. Bicubic 60 AR is basically the sweet spot setting for that category of machines. The noise and power tradeoffs of the better algorithms aren't worth it on my older machine, so I just use DXVA2 scaling. That said, people seemed to like NGU AA Medium for scaling in recent years and I agree it looks decent.
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Old 12th April 2022, 08:10   #62945  |  Link
ryrynz
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Yeah NGU AA, NGU standard or NGU sharp are your best options, the quality options barely affect the output so I wouldn't recommend Very high quality and probably not high quality either for most setups.
Surprisingly NGU Sharp is the most accurate but if you find things a bit too punchy use one of the other two.
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Old 13th April 2022, 16:47   #62946  |  Link
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Originally Posted by flossy_cake View Post
Is it not possible to tag a file/folder with a custom aspect ratio?
Do you have a lot of files like that? If it's an MKV and it's not hundreds of files, I just modify the MKV headers (I use MKVToolNix) to set the DAR to the correct one. Fixing the file itself is easier.
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Old 13th April 2022, 18:00   #62947  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
something bugged with this thing.. I have more than a system to handle what I watch 1080p and sometimes it just goes loco and doesn't fill.
Have your tried frames presented in advance to 1, 2, or max 3?
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Old 14th April 2022, 07:44   #62948  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by kasper93 View Post
Is there comprehensive chroma upscaling comparison somewhere? I kind of remember strengths and weaknesses of current options, but would be nice to have reference in one place.
here have fun
if AR was available it was used:
NN: https://abload.de/img/nntiksf.png
bilinear: https://abload.de/img/bilinearmaj1e.png
bicubic: https://abload.de/img/bicubicijj8s.png
biliteral sharp: https://abload.de/img/biliteralsharpfrj7e.png
biliteral soft: https://abload.de/img/biliteralsoftuijwi.png
jinc: https://abload.de/img/jinct0kri.png
lanczos 3: https://abload.de/img/lanczos9eknq.png
NGU AA: https://abload.de/img/nguaaq6kw4.png
NGU sharp: https://abload.de/img/ngusharp1ij39.png
reconstruct sharp: https://abload.de/img/reconstructsharpemkd8.png
reconstruct soft: https://abload.de/img/reconstructsofth6kvo.png
super xbr 100: https://abload.de/img/superxbrr5k0i.png
superres 4bilinear: https://abload.de/img/superresbilinear4tqjic.png

my comments: super xbr looks like it is just the same as NGU AA in this test while been far cheaper.
NGU sharp looks quite aliased and also fuzzily the lines are not strength and when compared to reconstruct sharp it shows how to get the image that sharp without that issue. the source is quite aliased for chroma so that maybe the reason why both are quite aliased but "correct" in this case.
superres bilinear 4 is failing in this test it adds an dot over the first a there is some hints of chroma there but only it amp it to eleven.

reconstruct sharp is the winner for me in this test. if you can't stand the aliasing the biliteral results are also very promising on this single test.
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Old 14th April 2022, 17:51   #62949  |  Link
scollaco
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Wow! Reconstruction sharp looks really good in this example. What would you be your general suggestion to use for all media for chroma scaling? I have the card that can handle extreme settings, But, extreme doesn't mean it's the best really. So what would you change?

I watch mostly 1080p and 4K/4K HDR content.

Currently I was using -
NGU Sharp (very high quality) for Chroma.
SIMM for downscaling
NGU Sharp for upscaling. (Very high for luma doubling, let madVR decide for the rest)
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Old 14th April 2022, 23:53   #62950  |  Link
mark0077
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
I understand the issue of 10bit windowed mode.

If you have different Prender queue settings for


something bugged with this thing.. I have more than a system to handle what I watch 1080p and sometimes it just goes loco and doesn't fill.



This setting doesn't work, only when it's selected I can see something change

I always have to tweak g-sync and any frame rate limiting / background frame rate limiting options in my NVidia control panel, otherwise I get similar strange issues which initially look like a performance problem. Worth checking in case you have any settings like that set in your graphics cards control panel. If it turns out to be the case, you can do a per application configuration for mpc-hc and make sure it doesn't use g-sync / frame rate limiting etc.
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Old 15th April 2022, 03:49   #62951  |  Link
ryrynz
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Originally Posted by scollaco View Post
Wow! Reconstruction sharp looks really good in this example.
It looks sharp, way too sharp.. You can have your aliasing.. Yuck.
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Old 15th April 2022, 06:15   #62952  |  Link
huhn
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the source is aliased you can see the rasterization in motion.

what so ever while i think reconstruct recreates this image most faithfully i'm pretty sure i would not use it.

super xnr or biliteral are the scaler i would choice to avoid the aliasing.

the longer you look at NGU aa and sharp the more you see it failing really painful in this example.

the more i look at it even forget super xbr biliteral is doing real great here.

edit: here is the y channel biliteral seem to really match it: https://abload.de/img/ywukzn.png
should have look at it before.

Last edited by huhn; 15th April 2022 at 06:19.
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Old 15th April 2022, 10:40   #62953  |  Link
mclingo
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Hi, has anyone else tried a Nvidia shield pro yet with AI upscaling, i'm seeing some rather great results so far, I bought one to use as a secondary player for the bedroom. Its 720p and 1080p upscaling to 4k is far superior to MADVR imho, it struggles a little with 480p DVD rips though if they are really low res but I still prefer the results to MADVR.

I'd probably switch to this on my main player but I prefer using my HTPC, would love to see something like this come to windows.
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Old 15th April 2022, 11:03   #62954  |  Link
huhn
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the shield scaler is a scaler that applies line sharpening so sharper parts of an image that are already sharp. if you like that try adaptive sharpen. to be fair it looks hilarious in motion at best. while they use the word AI it has nothing todo with AI it's just neural networks just as nnedi3 or older/newer scaler.

the shield is also known to be unable to reproduce color correctly how they messed that up is beyond me but they did.
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Old 15th April 2022, 14:50   #62955  |  Link
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So no recommendations then for general 1080p, 4K/4Khdr sources for chroma, luma and upscaling?
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Old 15th April 2022, 15:59   #62956  |  Link
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Recommendation? Yes. You will have to put in the work and try the different options to find what looks best to you in your viewing environment and equipment. Personal taste counts here just as much as technical ability of the algorithms. What I might recommend would be wildly different to what others may recommend and depending on your equipment and viewing area may not even be good for you. There's no shortcut to this process. Personally I like the NGU algorithms with my 3080. I like AA for chroma and sharp for upscaling. That's just my personal taste, however. You'll have to try out different options and see what you like.
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Old 15th April 2022, 17:33   #62957  |  Link
scollaco
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Recommendation? Yes. You will have to put in the work and try the different options to find what looks best to you in your viewing environment and equipment. Personal taste counts here just as much as technical ability of the algorithms. What I might recommend would be wildly different to what others may recommend and depending on your equipment and viewing area may not even be good for you. There's no shortcut to this process. Personally I like the NGU algorithms with my 3080. I like AA for chroma and sharp for upscaling. That's just my personal taste, however. You'll have to try out different options and see what you like.
Yes, I have done the work and spent countless hours fine tuning it to my tastes. I guess, I was curious what some recommendations are from others and to see if it lines up with mine.

I ended up with NGU sharp for Chroma and also NGU Sharp for upscaling. I sometimes use NGU AA for chroma but not sure what I like better. I personally prefer sharp images.
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Old 15th April 2022, 17:40   #62958  |  Link
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That's why it's so subjective and why there's no "best" recommendations. Some people find sharp off-putting. Some people put their TV in vivid mode for that "HDR effect". LMAO People's tastes vary wildly. I like AA for chroma and sharp for upscaling but there was plenty of discussion around that a while back. Some people don't use NGU for choma at all as they feel it's a waste of resources to provide little to no gain. To each their own. There's just too many settings and variables to account for everyone's unique setup. Lord knows madshi has tried. He'd LOVE to simplify the interface and have far fewer options but there is really no consensus. Hell even on the latest HDR test builds trying to solve the luminance algorithm there's no consensus. They'll be doing a blind taste test soon to see what people prefer. I have no doubt at all that there won't be a single unified answer on that one.
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Old 15th April 2022, 17:49   #62959  |  Link
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That's why it's so subjective and why there's no "best" recommendations. Some people find sharp off-putting. Some people put their TV in vivid mode for that "HDR effect". LMAO People's tastes vary wildly. I like AA for chroma and sharp for upscaling but there was plenty of discussion around that a while back. Some people don't use NGU for choma at all as they feel it's a waste of resources to provide little to no gain. To each their own. There's just too many settings and variables to account for everyone's unique setup. Lord knows madshi has tried. He'd LOVE to simplify the interface and have far fewer options but there is really no consensus. Hell even on the latest HDR test builds trying to solve the luminance algorithm there's no consensus. They'll be doing a blind taste test soon to see what people prefer. I have no doubt at all that there won't be a single unified answer on that one.
Yes, everything you say makes sense. I was following all the betas for HDR until even 158, 158b and even 159. Ended up going back to v113 as I couldn't tell a difference in my setup. Maybe I'll go back and check it again once things iron out.
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Old 15th April 2022, 19:12   #62960  |  Link
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I'm not sure it'll ever "iron out". And yes I do know what you mean by that. It's just that the betas at this point are really meant for a very specific group of people who know the bargain being made. The betas help improve the envy while the advanced users can take advantage of the functionality that's being tested. A lot of the testers went back to 113, as well. Once luminance is dealt with I suspect saturation is going to be back on the table and that's going to be ugly...again. Content makes that a very challenging topic and there's no one size fits all answer to that one. But it's all fun.
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