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Old 30th October 2020, 07:39   #2321  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
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Aw geez Intel! Yeah, I was pretty shocked to see this in the first place. Too bad it was a typo
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Old 30th October 2020, 21:20   #2322  |  Link
benwaggoner
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As Ice Lake is now shipping and we're getting some results from it, I've started a new Sticky to cover hardware AV1 decoding. As usage ramps up, having a single AV1 thread won't be practical before long.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=182011
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Old 30th October 2020, 21:37   #2323  |  Link
soresu
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They use a customized RDNA 2 GPU, which has been announced as having AV1 decode support.
This slide would seem to refute that assumption:



The GPU shader/CU microarchitecture and the VCN encoder/decoder architecture are not fused to each other from what I can gather about it, especially as it has been said that the design of at least one console SoC was already set in stone 2 years ago when AV1 had only just become standardised.

Having said that both consoles do have an 8 core CPU that could easily handle 4K24p for 8 bit content using dav1d.

Sadly davi1d still has not so much as a lick of 10/12/16 bit SIMD assembly for AVX2 or SSSE3.

My Zen1 based R7 1700 can barely manage some 10 bit 4K24p clips without skipping frames, but the Zen2 based CPU in the new consoles should fair a bit better, though I doubt it could even come close to managing 4K60p unless either Sony or Microsoft has made their own decoder with optimised 10 bit SIMD assembly (which itself is not a great stretch of imagination considering their massive resources).

Last edited by soresu; 30th October 2020 at 21:41.
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Old 30th October 2020, 22:23   #2324  |  Link
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My understanding is that none of the new gen GPUs have HW AV1 encoding. Given its complexity, it may be pretty hard to get meaningful compression efficiency gains out of the mm^2 a GPU vendor is willing to devote to encode. The quality@perf math can be very different for a GPU.
AMD's acquisition of Xilinx could make that an interesting possibility for the future on the AMD side at least.
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Old 1st November 2020, 03:40   #2325  |  Link
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AV1 isn't mentioned in that announcement at all?
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Old 1st November 2020, 13:43   #2326  |  Link
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My understanding is that none of the new gen GPUs have HW AV1 encoding. Given its complexity, it may be pretty hard to get meaningful compression efficiency gains out of the mm^2 a GPU vendor is willing to devote to encode. The quality@perf math can be very different for a GPU.

I have to add that according to Notebookcheck Alder Lake will support AV1 accelerated encode and as we know it's still based on Xe LP. On a further note in the Intel graphics driver since a month there is a file called "Intel Hybrid AV1 Encoder MFT".


Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
As Ice Lake is now shipping and we're getting some results from it, I've started a new Sticky to cover hardware AV1 decoding. As usage ramps up, having a single AV1 thread won't be practical before long.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=182011
You made a mistake there. Icelake doesn't support AV1, it's Tigerlake.

Last edited by Yups; 1st November 2020 at 18:21.
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Old 10th November 2020, 00:28   #2327  |  Link
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Amlogic S905X4 Android TV & RDK developer kit ships with ATSC, DVB, or ISDB tuners
Video Decoding

AV1 MP-10 L5.1 up to 4Kx2K @ 60fps

https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/11...r-isdb-tuners/
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Old 17th November 2020, 09:24   #2328  |  Link
LigH
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New uploads: (MSYS2; MinGW32 / MinGW64: GCC 10.2.0)

AOM v2.0.0-1023-gd198b8e9f

rav1e 0.4.0-alpha (9569901a / 2020-11-16)

dav1d 0.7.1 (ffd052b / 2020-11-16)

avif 0.8.3-bf58fe7
dav1d [dec]:0.7.1, aom [enc/dec]:2.0.0-1020-geda52bb92, rav1e [enc]:0.4.0-alpha (p20201110-4-g9569901a)
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Old 17th November 2020, 22:26   #2329  |  Link
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Anyone get a Xbox Series X|S or PS5 and had a chance to try to play back any AV1 content yet?

I would try it in a .mp4 container as it is less likely Sony/Microsoft added demuxing for others.
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Old 17th November 2020, 23:11   #2330  |  Link
LigH
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I may ask among the Twitch gamers I know (but doubt they know the AV1 video codec at all)...
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Old 25th November 2020, 23:16   #2331  |  Link
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Anyone get a Xbox Series X|S or PS5 and had a chance to try to play back any AV1 content yet?

I would try it in a .mp4 container as it is less likely Sony/Microsoft added demuxing for others.
It seems I was wrong and there indeed is an AV1 decoder for all XB1+ models in the works, mostly using the GPU for maximum CPU offload (you know, cos Jaguar is so great and all).

Link here to the repo on googlesource.

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Old 25th November 2020, 23:19   #2332  |  Link
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The Xbox decoder seems rooted to UWP and HLSL, but I imagine it could probably be reworked to use GLSL and a more cross platform software architecture than UWP.
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Old 25th November 2020, 23:39   #2333  |  Link
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Ah, someone on the AV1 discord got the me the Xbox decoder PDF through the git clone SW - good thing as I'm useless with that stuff.

Link here.
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Old 2nd December 2020, 17:02   #2334  |  Link
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Qualcomm announced their new snapdragon 888 today, it is the new name for the snapdragon 875. Unfortunately it doesn't support hardware decoding of AV1
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16271...88-deep-dive/4
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releas...obile-platform

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Old 3rd December 2020, 02:00   #2335  |  Link
benwaggoner
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Qualcomm announced their new snapdragon 888 today, it is the new name for the snapdragon 875. Unfortunately it doesn't support hardware decoding of AV1
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16271...88-deep-dive/4
https://www.qualcomm.com/news/releas...obile-platform
This was a surprise to me, as I had thought Google was requiring HW AV1 decode in this time frame.

Given Qualcomm's market share, this is really going to limit the utility of AV1 in mobile until 2022 at the earliest. Especially for premium content with HW DRM requirements.

And it was really at the low bitrates used in mobile where AV1's potential efficiency improvements were the most promising and relevant.

For 2021, I have a hard time seeing all that much value in doing AV1 other than for targeting Firefox or Chrome, which artificially block the use of HEVC HW decoders available to the underlying system. The Chromium/WebKit derived Edge and Safari can play HEVC content just fine. Switching from H.264 to AV1 clearly can offer big efficiency/quality improvements. But is adding a whole new codec any easier than asking users to use the default browser or a native Windows/Mac app? It's not like H.264 can be deprecated yet.

For everywhere but browsers, HEVC support is pretty universal, and I've yet to see compelling demonstrations of big-enough to bother improvements going from HEVC-to-AV1. HEVC can look pretty darn good given as much encoding time as AV1.

Film grain removal/parameterization/synthesis is a very promising feature for some classes of content, but there isn't production-grade robust tooling available to even really estimate the value of it, let alone use it by default in high-volume content publishing.

If AV1 misses 2021, 2022+ is quite likely will have competition from VVC and EVC.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 08:55   #2336  |  Link
birdie
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This was a surprise to me, as I had thought Google was requiring HW AV1 decode in this time frame.
888 will able to decode 4K 8bit 30fps AV1 in software just fine though battery life will be hugely affected.

Qualcomm often adds new codecs in their lower tier SoCs, so I guess 7XX/6XX/5XX/4XX/whatever SoC which they will release next year will support HW AV1 decoding.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 10:26   #2337  |  Link
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Qualcomm often adds new codecs in their lower tier SoCs, so I guess 7XX/6XX/5XX/4XX/whatever SoC which they will release next year will support HW AV1 decoding.
They might never support av1, they might be trying to force EVC to get some marketshare.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:31   #2338  |  Link
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Echoing what both Ben and I have said several times on this forum - hardware DRM requires hardware decode, and is mandatory for premium content. That's a big deal.
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Old 3rd December 2020, 11:38   #2339  |  Link
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I think you're onto to something. Because dragging its feet like they clearly did this time. Not only they are creating an opportunity to position EVC against AV1. But also as a "reasonable alternative" to VVC when time comes.

Let's see if Google will play hardball with them. What I'm about to post is from last April.

https://www.axios.com/scoop-google-r...9cf68908c.html

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Old 3rd December 2020, 12:01   #2340  |  Link
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For 2021, I have a hard time seeing all that much value in doing AV1 other than for targeting Firefox or Chrome, which artificially block the use of HEVC HW decoders available to the underlying system. The Chromium/WebKit derived Edge and Safari can play HEVC content just fine. Switching from H.264 to AV1 clearly can offer big efficiency/quality improvements. But is adding a whole new codec any easier than asking users to use the default browser or a native Windows/Mac app? It's not like H.264 can be deprecated yet.

For everywhere but browsers, HEVC support is pretty universal, and I've yet to see compelling demonstrations of big-enough to bother improvements going from HEVC-to-AV1. HEVC can look pretty darn good given as much encoding time as AV1.

If AV1 misses 2021, 2022+ is quite likely will have competition from VVC and EVC.
A lack of prevalent VP9 HW support didn't stop Google from pushing it for Youtube, and I doubt it will be any different for AV1.

Especially when there is already far better SW decoding for AV1 than VP9 had at the equivalent time from release, coupled with far more performant mobile CPU cores to decode it with - Apple aside the best ARM core at the time was A57 at around 2 Ghz, now we have X1 at around 2.84 Ghz which has to be more than 3x faster at least.

I imagine that Qualcomm didn't want to support VP9 either to begin with, but it eventually ended up in there as will AV1 in good time - whether that actually happens before AV2 is released is a different story.

It's also worth noting that for all Qualcomm's market dominance elsewhere, China and India's market will probably be populated with many handsets that use Mediatek SoC's that do support AV1 - and their combined populations/potential market are not something to sniff at for sure.
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