madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by toki

I just ran a new test for 3dLut on this new panel and for whatever reason, yet again i still cannot get the 3dlut to pass. Always not ok and I don't understand why. I am on a I1 Display Pro and I still cannot get it to pass.

You've gotten it to pass on other panels but not this new one ?

What do you mean pass, the test pattern ?

Take a screen shot of EVERY TAB page on dispcal settings you're using including the verify tab. you've probably set it up wrong

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by chrisssj2

I don't want to make it a case study. I just want someone to tell me which settings are best to use for quality generally speaking.
But if you must know I have LGC7OLED tv.

If you read the link, you'd see that you're asking the wrong question .

[chrisssj2]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

If you read the link, you'd see that you're asking the wrong question .

Nope. Im asking a simple straight forwarded question. Instead I get a "go figure it out yourself answer".

I'll wait till someone is nice enough to give me the quick run down as to what the general best quality settings are with madvr with a high end GPU for HDR. Without having to spend 100 hours reading insanely long guides which I don't even understand half it anyway and compare screenshots in which i may not immediatly notice stuff.

[Warner306]

Originally Posted by chrisssj2

I don't want to make it a case study. I just want someone to tell me which settings are best to use for quality generally speaking.
But if you must know I have LGC7OLED tv.

passthrough HDR to display or tone map HDR using pixel shaders with output in HDR format checked. It says that in there.

Not many in this thread will refer to anything as the "best" setting. If that was the case, there would only be one option for everything.

[toki]

Originally Posted by chrisssj2

Nope. Im asking a simple straight forwarded question. Instead I get a "go figure it out yourself answer".

I'll wait till someone is nice enough to give me the quick run down as to what the general best quality settings are with madvr with a high end GPU for HDR. Without having to spend 100 hours reading insanely long guides which I don't even understand half it anyway and compare screenshots in which i may not immediatly notice stuff.

I know it seems like a "go figure it out yourself answer' but really there are so many factors that come into play when adjusting settings for yourself. This includes your panel, you computer, what's in it, what do you really want out of your picture and so on. This is coming from someone who has been fiddling a lot recently trying to find something I'm pleased with and still trying to find a sweet spot. Every panel is different. Your machine, cpu, gpu, all of that are all also going to play a huge factor. I know it isn't the answer you want, but it really is how it is at the end of the day.

[Warner306]

I didn't mean to scare chriss off with my comment. I think he had some confusion with the way I presented the various HDR options in that guide. I could probably make it somewhat more clear when I update the HDR info in the future. Maybe a better introduction would help. I think pixel shaders with HDR output should at least be tried. That description alone is somewhat unclear.

Oh, well. He'll figure it out. It's not that challenging.

[ttnuagmada]

So i have a weird one that started happening maybe a month ago. Basically when I open a video with a player that is using MadVR, there is a chance that my computer will hard-lock. I cannot for the life of me figure it out. I have tried with both Potplayer and MPC-HC.

I'm running a 3770K and a 980ti. I had the CPU overclocked, but returning to stock seemed to have no effect.


There have been 2 situations where I've noticed it.

1. I'm opening a video - I never see a picture before it locks, it's always before there is a picture. This is without going fullscreen.
2. Changing out a 3Dlut.

I'm pretty solidly convinced that it is not a hardware/stability issue. I can game all day long without issues. I have stress tested the CPU with IBT and the GPU with 3dmark stress test and have had absolutely no issues with that or doing anything else. The PC is watercooled and my temps are fine. There are no WHEA errors or any other kind of hints in the event log either.

I have tried all of the different decoders in LAV. I have tried it without LAV installed at all. I have tried several different Nvidia driver versions, using DDU with each install.

I'm convinced it has something to do with MadVR, because I have tried to replicate it using the default renderer and it doesn't happen. It also seems to be completely random. Sometimes I'll have opened several videos before it happens, and then go several more before it happens again. Sometimes it will happen 5 times in a row.

The thing that gets me though is that I had made no changes to anything from before it started to when it started. I was running the same GPU driver, hadn't changed any MadVR settings or any other filter settings. Maybe there was a Windows 10 update that did it? I've been on 1809 for several months.

any help would be appreciated.

edit: also, most of my video is played over a network, so to rule out anything network/harddisk related I tried it with local videos as well and it will still happen.

[tp4tissue]

are you using black bar detection, try turning it off. Something similar happens to mine on certain videos , with the black bar detection, madvr will freeze, the pc's doesn't hardlock . but I get a black window, no image.

[ttnuagmada]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

are you using black bar detection, try turning it off. Something similar happens to mine on certain videos , with the black bar detection, madvr will freeze, the pc's doesn't hardlock . but I get a black window, no image.

I have not tried messing with that. I'll definitely try it when i get home. thanks!

[Charky]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

No one should watch movies without 3DLut.

Well, again, that's just your opinion

Above a certain price tag, most recent displays have at least one mode that's accurate.

Or, should I say, "accurate enough", cause of course you'll answer me "it's not accurate enough for me, I need a dE of 0,1 on all the color spectrum !".

Again, that's OK, it's just not everybody's needs. Some of us are not color maniacs and are perfectly fine with the stock colors of their "Cinema" mode of whatever is called the best mode on their TVs or projectors.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Figured out the cause of banding my end.

Stock install of either the latest Geforce or Modified Quadro driver = no banding at Full-Full-Full. However, if I use madLevelsTweaker or NV_RGBFullRangeToggle to force PC Levels, I get heavy banding with exactly the same settings/chain - not sure what has changed with the latest driver, as I haven't seen this issue in previous ones.

Odd.

Just sharing in case anyone else comes across the same issue.

[ashlar42]

Originally Posted by Charky

Well, again, that's just your opinion

Above a certain price tag, most recent displays have at least one mode that's accurate.

Or, should I say, "accurate enough", cause of course you'll answer me "it's not accurate enough for me, I need a dE of 0,1 on all the color spectrum !".

Again, that's OK, it's just not everybody's needs. Some of us are not color maniacs and are perfectly fine with the stock colors of their "Cinema" mode of whatever is called the best mode on their TVs or projectors.

I think I see it the way you see it.
I totally understand the purist's way of looking at things and I personally am more on that side of the fence than the one of "regular" people.

On the other hand, this being the official madVR discussion, I think more care should be taken in providing a more complete answer to people asking the GPU needed to use madVR. It's one thing to say "if you go with 2080Ti you're going to get this and that, which will provide unrivaled quality", a whole different beast stating "you *need* a 2080Ti to use madVR properly".

Just my two cents.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by Charky

Well, again, that's just your opinion

Above a certain price tag, most recent displays have at least one mode that's accurate.

Or, should I say, "accurate enough", cause of course you'll answer me "it's not accurate enough for me, I need a dE of 0,1 on all the color spectrum !".

Again, that's OK, it's just not everybody's needs. Some of us are not color maniacs and are perfectly fine with the stock colors of their "Cinema" mode of whatever is called the best mode on their TVs or projectors.

BEFORE Madvr graced us with 3Dlut support, the only way to get calibrated was to buy $500 lut-boxes. These doohikies weren't even that reliable outside of their designated applications and hookups. +$230 for the colorimeter, We were looking at $730. It costs even more in europe which don't enjoy 'Murica pricing, they'd be looking at ~$8-900

When the Madvr color enlightenment happened, The price to get accurate Colors dropped to simply the cost of the colorimeter, gaming changing.

__
Your argument is the same as saying a Blind person doesn't need eyes. A blind person can live well in modernity, but he'd still be much better off With-Eyes had we the technology to do such a thing.

That's exactly how computers are without a colorimeter, BLIND.

Calibration is NOT all about Delta E. It's about color Balance and Intent. A critical part of movie making labor is color-grading. This is something you already Paid For when you acquire any digital-media. The director and color artist sit in a dim gray room, forgoing vitamin D critical to their health, to bring us fantastic media.

The color subtleties and director's intent are thoroughly Obliterated without Color calibration. This is as true of $300 tvs as $2000 tvs.

The reason we can't get a good out of the box performance is PRECISELY because of general consumer ignorance. Never having SEEN an image remotely close to reference, a crass consumer can only decide based on very basic properties, them being, brighter, more saturated, sharper, and bluer. In catering to this crowd, tv-makers have no option but to release terribly inaccurate sets.

From the director's point of view, there is no right/wrong color, he's the producer.

From the consumer's point of view, there IS a right color, the color the producer chose. In this case, on the viewer end, it either Is that color or it Isn't, Neither you nor your PC will ever know right from wrong without a 3Dlut. To choose Uncalibrated is to choose ignorance.

Good-Taste, comes at a cost, and has to itself be trained. There is of course Freedom in choosing a more blue image, but Not before establishing Reference.

[DragonQ]

Any ideas yet how the GTX 1650 compares to the GTX 1050 Ti in madVR performance? Seems to be a poor replacement for gaming. Still waiting on that GT 1030 replacement with 3+ GiB of VRAM but hey ho.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

Calibration is NOT all about Delta E.

Its also about the White Point and Gamma curve.

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

From the consumer's point of view, there IS a right color, the color the producer chose

And a good TV is perfectly capable of producing that color without an external 3DLUT. Heck a good modern TV will have color adjustments built in (up to 20 point corrections, which are plenty) so if you have a colorimeter (which you need for a 3DLUT creation anyway), you can already tweak the TV to get to very good levels without needing any modifications on the playback side. And many premium TVs come calibrated out of the box to Delta E < 3 or such, which is already pretty decent.

The only ignorance here is assuming that you know the only solution to a long solved problem.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

And a good TV is perfectly capable of producing that color without an external 3DLUT. Heck a good modern TV will have color adjustments built in (up to 20 point corrections, which are plenty) so if you have a colorimeter (which you need for a 3DLUT creation anyway), you can already tweak the TV to get to very good levels without needing any modifications on the playback side. And many premium TVs come calibrated out of the box to Delta E < 3 or such, which is already pretty decent.

The only ignorance here is assuming that you know the only solution to a long solved problem.

You're talking about acceptable range. And I concur, there is a range.

But the goal is to narrow it given the consumer's available resources.

It isn't that Tvs can't produce a certain color, they simply don't produce right colors by choice of the maker, influenced by the ignorance of the consumer.

What has not been solved is End to End, and the only way to solve it is Consumer measurement.

For example, just in this thread, we have red hue green hue oddities with simple driver differences. What assurance do we have that a bluray player or some other electronic isn't rendering / outputting something equally anomalous. How would the user know without measuring ?

That 20 point gamma adjustment, do it by eye ? This is the solution?

Yes we have a better picture today than yesteryears, but that last stretch towards the viewer has always been the missing component.

Factory calibration is good but drifted after 1000 hours, and worthless after 5000 hours. That could be between 1-2 years.

Factory settings are also with respect to their patch/tone generator, NOT consumer output hardware.

For example, dell released a prosumer wide gamut monitor in 2009 u2410. their factory calibrated srgb mode was for 5800k. You couldn't adjust this in the regular menu/ custom mode etc. So for a long time, people couldn't get accurate Srgb. When they calibrated it would clamp the contrast ratio to 500:1, while the panel itself was capable of ~770:1. It wasn't until much later when people had access to the service menu, that this could be rectified.

Calibration and RE-Calibration are critical.

[tp4tissue]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Any ideas yet how the GTX 1650 compares to the GTX 1050 Ti in madVR performance? Seems to be a poor replacement for gaming. Still waiting on that GT 1030 replacement with 3+ GiB of VRAM but hey ho.

It has less cuda cores than a 1060, and 1060 is already kind of not enough for 4K HDR.

I'd still recommend the 1070 (used), for now.

If you're not worried about the current driver hassle, 2060/70/80 are all there to future proof, as Madshi has dropped hints that there may be something useful in that new architecture, this is not for certain though, just hints.

You don't want 1050ti unless you're Certain that you won't be needing 4KHDR

[el Filou]

Originally Posted by DragonQ

Any ideas yet how the GTX 1650 compares to the GTX 1050 Ti in madVR performance?

Should only be around 15% faster. Maybe 20% if it can clock a bit higher.

[huhn]

it should be more in the region of 30-50% more.
it's not build with the inferior samsung process so it should clock ~100 mhz higher.

just the paper number make the card ~37 % faster and turing has added some juicy goods which may or may never play a role.

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

It isn't that Tvs can't produce a certain color, they simply don't produce right colors by choice of the maker, influenced by the ignorance of the consumer.

Thats why they have several presets. Some cater to people that like warmer image, some like colder, and some like it accurate. Its easy enough to read various TV reviews, measuring pre/post calibrated color is something many better reviews do these days (with post-calibration being done using TV integrated calibration solutions, so that already gives you some information how good those work as well)

Originally Posted by tp4tissue

What has not been solved is End to End, and the only way to solve it is Consumer measurement.

For example, just in this thread, we have red hue green hue oddities with simple driver differences. What assurance do we have that a bluray player or some other electronic isn't rendering / outputting something equally anomalous. How would the user know without measuring ?

That 20 point gamma adjustment, do it by eye ? This is the solution?

Yes we have a better picture today than yesteryears, but that last stretch towards the viewer has always been the missing component.

Factory calibration is good but drifted after 1000 hours, and worthless after 5000 hours. That could be between 1-2 years.

[...]

Calibration and RE-Calibration are critical.

I never said you should not measure. You can measure and then calibrate the colors in the TVs controls as much as it lets you. In fact, even if you use a 3DLUT, you should do that, since it can often correct in directions that a 3DLUT simply cannot go (ie. if the gamut is too narrow, a 3DLUT cannot expand it, it can only ever narrow it further, while TV controls can potentially expand it).

With a good TV with good calibration controls, this can get you to levels close to perfect, beyond visible differences. This is how TV calibration has worked for years, without any fancy external boxes. Some people even pay professionals for a one-time calibration (which is often cheaper then buying a colorimeter if you only do it once, nevermind needing to know wtf you are doing).