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Old 28th February 2019, 11:14   #55021  |  Link
Manni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
DXVA2 native can reduce picture quality on some GPU/Driver (mainly Nvidia, IIRC).

DXVA2 copy-back, D3D11 copy-back, D3D11 native and software decoding have perfect picture quality. But D3D11 native doesn't support deinterlacing nor black bar detection. If you don't need those you can use D3D11 native.

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=54943
UHD BD Menus in jRiver also need copyback (they don't work with native).

So it's not just for black bar detection that we need copyback.

Also D3D11 native is the fastest mode to measure files with madMeasureHDR for many.

So there might be some frequent switching involved between native and copyback, at least if you use measurements files...
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Old 28th February 2019, 11:27   #55022  |  Link
mkohman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
DXVA2 native can reduce picture quality on some GPU/Driver (mainly Nvidia, IIRC).

DXVA2 copy-back, D3D11 copy-back, D3D11 native and software decoding have perfect picture quality. But D3D11 native doesn't support deinterlacing nor black bar detection. If you don't need those you can use D3D11 native.

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=54943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
UHD BD Menus in jRiver also need copyback (they don't work with native).

So it's not just for black bar detection that we need copyback.

Also D3D11 native is the fastest mode to measure files with madMeasureHDR for many.

So there might be some frequent switching involved between native and copyback, at least if you use measurements files...
Thank you so much guys.. So what I take from this is to use D3D11 copyback as I use masking within my jvc on my scope screen.. What I was wondering is are they're any difference in quality between D3D11 native and copyback or are they the same in terms of quality? Thank you.

By the way I have a RX 580 and currently use ngu anti alias (medium) on my 4K titles. I was looking to change to the vega 64 card but madshi recommend the rtx 2060 or 2070 any thoughts on this as I thought the vega was a stronger card? Or shall I just stick with my RX 580 for now and see what the future holds. Tbh I am not sure about nvidia drivers and all the bugs they've had. AMD card's have aways worked a treat for me..

Last edited by mkohman; 28th February 2019 at 11:29.
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Old 28th February 2019, 14:23   #55023  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
What I was wondering is are they're any difference in quality between D3D11 native and copyback or are they the same in terms of quality?
Same quality. All decoders except sometimes DXVA2 native have the same quality.
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Old 28th February 2019, 14:27   #55024  |  Link
grendelrt
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Just to say that I've reported another bug to JVC, as some of you are asking me via PMs about using 12bits with the JVCs.

When in 12bits, with any driver version, if you set the nVidia CP to RGB Full the JVC will report RGB 12bits input in its info screen, but internally it switches to YCC422, which is of course very bad for chroma as it happens entirely behind madVR's back.

You can see this if you set the levels to standard in the JVCs, as you have to set them to 0-255 in MadVR given that there are no levels in YCC, which is an incorrect setting. However, if you set both levels and colorspace to auto in the JVC and have madVR set to 0-255 anyway, then you won't see any problem as everything will happen behind your back (and madVR's back). madVR sends RGB 0-255 12bits, the GPU is set to 0-255 12bits, the JVC displays an RGB 12bits input, but in fact the GPU is forced to send YCC 422 by the JVC.

You can see this if you set colorspace to RGB (what it should be according to the GPU settings): you get the wrong colors. The only way to get correct colors in 12bits is to set the JVC to 422 or auto. This has been reported to JVC so hopefully will be fixed by f/w in the new models.

To avoid this happening behind madVR's back, you either have to select YCC444 in the nVidia CP (not recommended) or select RGB 8bits. Given the issues in 12bits with calibration and refresh rates, I still recommend to select 8bits both in the nVidia CP and in madVR properties. There is no banding even with 10bits content with this setting as madVR's dithering is excellent (ordered or above). There might be a very slightly higher noise level near black, but that's invisible from a sitting position (even at 1 screen width). Even 7bits does very well. You have to go down to 6bits to start seeing more noise, and even then banding is minimal. That's testing with pixel shader tonemapping. I haven't tested with HDR passthrough.

Unfortunately selecting 8bits isn't an option with the older models (at least it was the case for my rs500) due to the magenta bug, in all refresh rates in 4K with recent drivers, and at 4K60 in 385.28. The only way to get rid of the magenta is to not send HDR metadata, both in SDR and HDR, and even that doesn't work for everyone.
Thanks Mani for the post. I will move to RGB 8bit in both Nvidia and the native display bitdepth setting for the time being. For your last sentence though, why would you be sending HDR metadata (I am assuming you are using tonemapping in Madvr and sending the mapped data to the JVC and would not need it?).

Last edited by grendelrt; 28th February 2019 at 14:32.
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Old 28th February 2019, 14:35   #55025  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by grendelrt View Post
Thanks Mani for the post. I will move to RGB 8bit in both Nvidia and the native display bitdepth setting for the time being. For your last sentence though, why would you be sending HDR metadata (I am assuming you are using tonemapping on the JVC and would not need it?).
I need to send metadata even in SDR passthrough when I want to force the BT2020 colorspace. I also use the BT2020 flag in the calibration tab to switch calibration automatically with the HD Fury Maestro between my rec-709 and my DCI-P3 calibration. That's using pixel shader tonemapping.
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Old 28th February 2019, 18:18   #55026  |  Link
griffind
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Welp I spoke too soon, I'm still getting 4.9% or so of clock deviation on every file I play, 1080p or 4k. I did a clean install of NVidia 416.95 drivers and my refresh rate is still reporting as 62.95254Hz for my Sony projector.

My hardware setup is PC>Denon 6300H>Projector so I can't really change that, also nuking Windows and shotgunning the whole install is not an option really either.

Surely there is a more surgical approach I can take to chasing down this issue????

Windows 10 x64
1070ti 416.95
Kodi 17 DSPlayer
MadVR 0.92.17
LAV 0.70.2.81-git
Passthru audio
No reclock

Last edited by griffind; 28th February 2019 at 18:23.
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Old 28th February 2019, 18:42   #55027  |  Link
maxkill
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Just wanted to write this to thank Madshi for all the work. I finally found the optimal settings for 4k and started using a 3dlut file which I ramdomly found in a guide which works fantastically well for shadows.
It really looks amazing and I am very thankful for this renderer, it's superbly done.
Idling about 65% with a 2070 rtx.

What I love is the sharpness it's really astounding how crisp the quality is, the smoothness of light and shadows.
I have yet to fix full rgb since my reciever don't support it, but still looks incredible. Thanks man it's now very pleasing to watch 4k!

Last edited by maxkill; 28th February 2019 at 18:52.
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Old 28th February 2019, 19:04   #55028  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
This is so exciting!
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Old 28th February 2019, 19:30   #55029  |  Link
madshi
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Old 28th February 2019, 19:43   #55030  |  Link
huhn
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maybe you should add a reason why a HTPC user should care?
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Old 28th February 2019, 19:47   #55031  |  Link
madshi
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Probably an HTPC user wouldn't care, unless the "any source" bit interests you. Anyway, just wanted to give you guys here the heads up on what I've been up to lately.
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Old 28th February 2019, 19:56   #55032  |  Link
griffind
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Probably an HTPC user wouldn't care, unless the "any source" bit interests you. Anyway, just wanted to give you guys here the heads up on what I've been up to lately.
"Any Source" <--- this is the magic unicorn sparkles, send content from anything and get MadVR tone mapping WITHOUT needing a HTPC, yes please with a cherry on top!!!
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Old 28th February 2019, 20:04   #55033  |  Link
sneaker_ger
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Originally Posted by griffind View Post
"Any Source"
My guess is "Any Source" is gonna be "Any HDMI Source". So it's gonna be a small box you put between your TV and an HDMI source and it's gonna tonemap.

OR

Re-encoding software that applies madvr's tonemapping and outputs to a file instead of the screen.
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Old 28th February 2019, 20:05   #55034  |  Link
cokeefe
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I know it's very early, but can anyone comment on 2160p upscaling performance with the new GTX 1660 Ti, using 720p and 1080p sources?

Suspect NGU is out of the question - is this card capable of 60FPS smoothmotion Lanczos/Jinc/XBR etc?

Building a second HTPC and don't want to break the bank with a 1080/2080 card. Thanks!

Last edited by cokeefe; 28th February 2019 at 20:07.
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Old 28th February 2019, 20:59   #55035  |  Link
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Removed some posts about a wild mischaracterization of the newsletter signup and the optional user survey that follows.
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Old 28th February 2019, 21:02   #55036  |  Link
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Thanks for the heads up, madshi. The prospect of being able to apply madvr tone mapping to any source is rather exciting!
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Old 28th February 2019, 21:18   #55037  |  Link
madshi
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Thank you, foxyshadis!
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Old 28th February 2019, 21:18   #55038  |  Link
jmone
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Nice - my guess is it is madVR in a standalone dongle/box/hw Thingie!
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Old 28th February 2019, 21:28   #55039  |  Link
foxyshadis
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If someone would like to offer a constructive idea for improvement, instead of accusing one of the most respected developers this forum's ever had of being a spammer and scammer (of what?), let's have it. Accusations, insults, and trolling are not welcome here (nor is trolling back, for some of you).

So let's take a moment to breathe, assume good faith, and approach this in a calmer manner.

Madshi, maybe redirecting to a page that says "Thank you for signing up for the newsletter; click here to take an optional short user survey so I can better understand how you use the software."
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Old 28th February 2019, 21:43   #55040  |  Link
70MM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Just to say that I've reported another bug to JVC, as some of you are asking me via PMs about using 12bits with the JVCs.

You can see this if you set colorspace to RGB (what it should be according to the GPU settings): you get the wrong colors. The only way to get correct colors in 12bits is to set the JVC to 422 or auto. This has been reported to JVC so hopefully will be fixed by f/w in the new models.

.
Manni can you help me please as Im no expert on this...
Ive had the NX9 for about 3 weeks, I set the 1080Ti card to RGB 0-255 12bits and madvr to the same. I noticed weeks ago that my NX9 wouldnt display when I set it to RGB, however it only worked if I left it on Auto. I thought it was odd as in the past I had my X9900 set to RGB and everything was fine, I believe if all in the chain is set to RGB, the proj should be in RGB, is that correct?

I have a feeling now that since Im using 12bit and auto on the NX9 that Im now doing a conversion to 422 which I believe isnt good....

Am I ok with how I have the card/madvr/NX9 setup at the moment or should I be changing everything to 8bit until JVC fix this?

Thank you manni...

Last edited by 70MM; 28th February 2019 at 21:46.
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