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Old 4th November 2016, 18:14   #261  |  Link
Asmodian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
a screen should be better:
https://abload.de/img/imageshiftqcs9f.jpg

and yes hard coded bars are not detected.

"cleanup image boarders by..." and "if there are big black bars:" works with DXVA native too. i even forgot they exist.

maybe something like: most black bar detection features doesn't work with DXVA native(DXVA copy back is recommended) in a proper english is a enough or it is getting complicated in the end.
Ah, right, it only applies to the black bars applied by madVR. That gets complicated. Cleanup seems worthing mentioning too.. hmm..
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Old 20th November 2016, 01:02   #262  |  Link
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Updated for madVR v0.91.0. Next Generation Upscaling (NGU)!
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Old 15th December 2016, 05:45   #263  |  Link
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Updated for madVR v0.91.4. Big changes to the image doubling settings, new "let madVR decide" settings which I do recommend and use myself.

edit: I forgot to upload my new settings.bin, now corrected.
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Old 18th December 2016, 15:25   #264  |  Link
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BTW, what happens if you use such a settings.bin? Usually the preferences are stored in the registry, do they get overwritten?
Or works it like this: If settings.bin present, load settings stored there, if not found, use registry values?
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Old 18th December 2016, 15:31   #265  |  Link
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IIRC: both have a value to store how recent they are. The most recent one overwrites the other (or create the other if does not exist).
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Old 18th December 2016, 20:32   #266  |  Link
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Yes, for this reason resetting madVR to defaults before copying in a settings.bin is recommended.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 03:36   #267  |  Link
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What's the difference between Chroma and Image upscaling (madVR v0.91.4)

As explained "Image Upscaling" is how madVR scales to the target resolution if it is larger than the source. So my question is, what's the point of "Chroma Upscaling"? It's explained as, how madVR doubles the chroma resolution in both dimensions. There's no need for it if "Image Upscaling" does the same. So does it serve an alternate purpose, it'd be greatly appreciated if someone would explain.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 04:14   #268  |  Link
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Chroma is stored at half the resolution of luma in consumer formats (called 4:2:0 sampling, found on DVD, blurry, streaming, etc.) so you first need to scale the chroma to match the luma before the conversion to RGB. You often want to use a different method for this compared to scaling both the chroma and luma together, as is done by image upscaling.

Referring to the image in the third post might help you understand the steps needed.
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Old 2nd January 2017, 06:49   #269  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Chroma is stored at half the resolution of luma in consumer formats (called 4:2:0 sampling, found on DVD, blurry, streaming, etc.) so you first need to scale the chroma to match the luma before the conversion to RGB. You often want to use a different method for this compared to scaling both the chroma and luma together, as is done by image upscaling.

Referring to the image in the third post might help you understand the steps needed.
I see, that's very interesting, I didn't know that. Thank you very much for the info.
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Old 3rd January 2017, 08:30   #270  |  Link
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New flowchart, people were often confused by the old one so maybe this one will be better understood. I think I was trying to pack too much into it, now it is really only an example using NGU for image upscaling.

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Old 5th January 2017, 00:36   #271  |  Link
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I seemed to have forgot to ask about this before, but I'd like to know the proper procedure for the "Scaling Algorithms." I use NGU and I was wondering if I should max out the "Chroma Upscaling" all the way before touching the "Image Upscaling" or should I move them together. Basically what I'm asking, is if the "Chroma Upscaling" more important to image quality than "Image Upscaling."

So I have a couple examples and I'd like to know which is optimal:

"Chroma Upscaling" = "NGU - very high"
"Image Upscaling" = "NGU - Algorithm Quality -> low"

"Chroma Upscaling" = "NGU - medium"
"Image Upscaling" = "NGU - Algorithm Quality -> high"

Which option is the better option of the two?
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Old 5th January 2017, 01:19   #272  |  Link
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chroma is very unimportant.

you should always judge the picture quality by your self.
increasing the scaling algorithm until the GPU is at his max is not a proper way to get a good result.

NGU for example is not good for all types of sources.
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Old 5th January 2017, 03:19   #273  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
chroma is very unimportant.

you should always judge the picture quality by your self.
increasing the scaling algorithm until the GPU is at his max is not a proper way to get a good result.

NGU for example is not good for all types of sources.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that luma is much more important than chroma, however I just thought that since we had to upscale chroma to RGB first that it might hold some importance. Also, I'm probably not maxing out my GPU in the sense that you are thinking. I press "CTRL + J" to get the OSD and I look at the frame time to make sure I'm a couple of milliseconds lower.

I primarily watch animated content, such as anime, and NGU in my testing is perfectly fine with it. However, the reason I asked about what was better between my options, which you didn't answer btw :P, was because in my testing I noticed little to no difference between "Chroma Upscaling - low" and "Chroma Upscaling - very high" even when looking an inch away from my monitor and was just wondering theoretically if it mattered more.

After some current testing I think you're right in saying that chroma is less important. I kept the "Chroma Upscaling" at "very high" and just modified the "Image Upscaling" algorithms option. I noticed more of a difference between the options than when I was modifying the "Chroma Upscaling."

So in conclusion, I'm pretty sure that the second set of settings that I proposed in my original question would be the better choice. Producing more noticeable practical results. If anyone else wants to add anything, if I might be missing something, then go right ahead.
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Old 5th January 2017, 05:39   #274  |  Link
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You are correct, go with your second option. Chroma Upscaling is more important than the chroma algorithm quality in image upscaling but it is still not something to spend too much GPU power on.

I like NGU med or high for chroma upscaling but only if the luma quality in image upscaling is already on very high.

NGU is great for HD anime but it is too sharp for SD anime, IMO, it shows all the artifacts and oddities too well. NNEDI3 does better with SD anime.
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Old 8th January 2017, 01:46   #275  |  Link
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Added some comments on the "trade quality for performance options".
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Old 9th January 2017, 03:28   #276  |  Link
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Updated for madVR v0.91.5.

NGU can do x4 in one step now (when chroma quality = "normal"). It isn't as sharp and exaggerates artifacts much less than two x2 steps.

No other changes.
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Old 31st January 2017, 01:32   #277  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
New flowchart, people were often confused by the old one so maybe this one will be better understood. I think I was trying to pack too much into it, now it is really only an example using NGU for image upscaling.

Old:


New:
According to this, chroma is downscaled after conversion to RGB. If that is true, why doesn't the madVR OSD report this?



Shouldn't it be Bicubic60 AR < SSIM1D100 AR?

I admit, I don't know this at this stage as a user.
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Old 31st January 2017, 02:14   #278  |  Link
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chroma and luma are totally different things.
and chroma is not downscaled only luma at one point to match the chroma/target resolution.
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Old 31st January 2017, 02:19   #279  |  Link
Asmodian
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According to this, chroma is downscaled after conversion to RGB. If that is true, why doesn't the madVR OSD report this?



Shouldn't it be Bicubic60 AR < SSIM1D100 AR?

I admit, I don't know this at this stage as a user.
Actually it can work both ways, depending on the trade quality for performance option "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance". My chart shows as it would work with this disabled. It does default to enabled.

The OSD doesn't actually ever show downscaling for chroma. Using rendering times and a heavy chroma doubler it is easy to see chroma doubling or not when toggling the trade quality for performance option but the OSD chroma line doesn't change. If both luma and chroma are set to the same doubler the OSD matches my chart and you can see chroma doubling activate and deactivate when toggling "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance"; the OSD line changes from "image" to "luma" when enabled but it still doesn't indicate what happened to the chroma (upscaled, downscaled, or how).

"scale chroma separately, if it saves performance" Disabled:

"scale chroma separately, if it saves performance" Enabled:


I wanted to show chroma doubling enabled to indicate where the performance hit comes from and this is more representative of how it works when doubling without downscaling a lot afterwards. It is hard to come up with a good chart that explains enough without being hard to understand.
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Old 31st January 2017, 05:16   #280  |  Link
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Great post. This was really helpful as was your guide you posted on wiki.jriver.com which led me to this forum. There were a couple questions/corrections/guide mistakes I wanted to communicate with you:

Smooth Motion -

I believe you might have made a mistake/typo in your description about smooth motion in this line:

Quote:
"Note that smooth motion has less blurring when displaying 23.976 fps at 60 Hz than 23.976 fps at 23.970 Hz so this option..."
I think you meant 29 fps at 60 Hz (or something to that effect).

A suggestion I had (because this really helped me when I read this in you guide) is related to:

enable automatic full screen exclusive mode -

In your guide you suggest turning this off which is actually very helpful as it allowed me to use the full media bar in full screen when hover over it with a mouse. It also removes any delay between switching between full and windowed. Perhaps you might want to mention that to some effect in your guide under the description of that mode.

Finally I had a question and was hoping you could explain what exactly "activate 200% super sampling" in image upscaling does? I have a decent rig (Nvidea GTX 960 GPU, i5 6600k OC @ 4.6Ghz, 16GB of RAM OC @ 3000MHz on a MSI Z170 M5 Motherboard) and yet saw a severe drop in performance when enabling that feature with no quality improvement. It was actually one of the rare times any setting change effected my video playback performance.
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