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Old 17th January 2011, 10:34   #301  |  Link
nm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rica View Post
I've discovered FFVideo Source gives the right information and no need to crop

[...]
Code:
LoadPlugin("H264StereoSource.dll")
lv= FFVideoSource("C:\H264StereoSource_a2\left.m2ts")
rv = H264StereoSource("decoder.cfg",64172)
Interleave(lv, rv)
ConvertToYV12()
I think I told you to try that at least three times in this thread..?


Quote:
But i must say i never advise frame sequential; I really got tired while watching it.

Stick with Side By Side or Top Bottom method...
There's still something wrong with your encode or the player if there's that kind of a difference. More likely it's a placebo effect.

Could you upload sample clips of both encodes?
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Old 17th January 2011, 11:13   #302  |  Link
rica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nm View Post
More likely it's a placebo effect.

Could you upload sample clips of both encodes?
I hope it's a placebo effect.
I will upload the samples this evening.
Thanks.
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Old 17th January 2011, 23:00   #303  |  Link
rica
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Side by Side (left-right):

http://www.mediafire.com/?dq8vng4kzxf7nbe


Frame Sequential: (left first)

http://www.mediafire.com/?btleid020d6bfkt


Both files are re-encoded using ffVideoSource method:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...&postcount=300

_ _

Last edited by rica; 18th January 2011 at 00:40.
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Old 20th January 2011, 23:01   #304  |  Link
rica
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Guys,

I wonder if anybody have had a look at those uploaded re-encodes on above post?
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Old 21st January 2011, 00:37   #305  |  Link
nm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rica View Post
Guys,

I wonder if anybody have had a look at those uploaded re-encodes on above post?
I looked now, but I don't have stereo gear, so I simply interleaved the corresponding views from both files to check for any differences frame by frame.

left.avs
Code:
LoadPlugin("ffms2.dll")
a=FFVideoSource("fs.mp4").trim(612,0).selecteven()
b=FFVideoSource("ss.mp4").crop(0,0,1920,1080)
a=a.subtitle("FS", size=32, align=9)
b=b.subtitle("SS", size=32, align=9)
interleave(a,b)
right.avs
Code:
LoadPlugin("ffms2.dll")
a=FFVideoSource("fs.mp4").trim(612,0).selectodd()
b=FFVideoSource("ss.mp4").crop(1920,0,1920,1080)
a=a.subtitle("FS", size=32, align=9)
b=b.subtitle("SS", size=32, align=9)
interleave(a,b)
(Had to remux the streams to MP4 since I'm on Linux and FFMS2 doesn't support TS very well without Haali's splitter.)


Comparing the left view of the frame sequential video to the left view of the side-by-side video revealed only minor differences due to compression. Sharp edges and objects were visually identical in both. It's difficult to say which video is closer to the source without a reference.

Same deal with the right view.

However, there's a color difference between the views in both files. That might cause some discomfort, but the problem is the same in both files. I'd blame H264StereoSource for it.
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Old 21st January 2011, 21:46   #306  |  Link
rica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nm View Post
I looked now, but I don't have stereo gear, so I simply Comparing the left view of the frame sequential video to the left view of the side-by-side video revealed only minor differences due to compression. Sharp edges and objects were visually identical in both. It's difficult to say which video is closer to the source without a reference.

Same deal with the right view.

However, there's a color difference between the views in both files. That might cause some discomfort, but the problem is the same in both files. I'd blame H264StereoSource for it.
Thanks for the feedback.
Really it's hard to say the difference. (unless watching them in 3D mode.)

Last edited by rica; 22nd January 2011 at 01:23.
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Old 24th January 2011, 00:22   #307  |  Link
rica
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And with Adam's tool: (full rsolution too.)

Quote:
SetMemoryMax (64)
LoadPlugin("C:\DG\DGDecodeNV.dll")
LoadPlugin("H264StereoSource.dll")
lv = DGSource("C:\blabla\left.dgi")
rv= H264StereoSource("decoder.cfg",*****)
LeftRight3D(lv, rv)
ConvertToYV12()
Quote:
SetMemoryMax (64)
LoadPlugin("C:\DG\DGDecodeNV.dll")
LoadPlugin("H264StereoSource.dll")
lv = DGSource("C:\blabla\left.dgi")
rv= H264StereoSource("decoder.cfg",*****)
TopDown3D(lv, rv)
ConvertToYV12()
And:

Code:
C:\H264StereoSource_a2>x264 --fps 24000/1001 --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud -o leftright_adam.264 leftright_adam.avs
Code:
C:\H264StereoSource_a2>x264 --fps 24000/1001 --level 4.1 --sar 1:1 --aud -o topbottom.264 topbottom_adam.avs

_ _ _ _ _

Last edited by rica; 27th February 2011 at 19:28.
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Old 24th January 2011, 12:50   #308  |  Link
nm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rica View Post
Really it's hard to say the difference. (unless watching them in 3D mode.)
Then you have a playback problem. Maybe one of the views is delayed by 1 frame:

frame-sequential stream: L1 R1 L2 R2 L3 R3 ...

instead of displaying frames L2 and R2 at the same time the player displays L3 and R2.
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Old 25th January 2011, 02:10   #309  |  Link
rica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nm View Post
Then you have a playback problem. Maybe one of the views is delayed by 1 frame:

frame-sequential stream: L1 R1 L2 R2 L3 R3 ...

instead of displaying frames L2 and R2 at the same time the player displays L3 and R2.
Not sure, maybe it's related with decoding to checkerboard issue. (by my DLP-Link PJ)
Finally i get tired while watching frame sequential encoded files while i'm comfortable with side by side or top bottom.
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Old 26th January 2011, 13:26   #310  |  Link
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The git tree at videolan has been updated with a patch that fixes the rate control and framerate issue with frame sequential.
Now waiting for the builds to test again.
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Old 26th January 2011, 16:09   #311  |  Link
BigPines
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If anyone has Frame Sequential working on the PS3, I would love to hear about it.

Mike
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Old 3rd February 2011, 13:12   #312  |  Link
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Alright I just did a new encoding test with the latest x264 version from x264.nl (rev1884) and my usual stereoscopic source and... the CRF quality difference is gone, both streams look almost identical so that is good, there is just one problem : I get no bitrate gain at all.
I used dfault options, just with frame-packing 5. Would there be any particular option I should enable that could trigger the huge bandwidth gains DarkShikari got in his test last month ?

There is still that little thing with the picture I can't really describe, some parts are just as sharp on both encodings but some very specific parts seem a little blurred, it's like the psy-opts would prioritize different parts of the picture in some very specific conditions.

Quote:
C:\Users\BlackShark>C:\Users\BlackShark\...\x264_1884.exe --crf 21 --frame-packing 5 --psnr --ssim -o 1884-crf21-frameseq
C:\Users\...\Video-frameseq.avs
avs [info]: 1920x1080p 0:0 @ 20000000/333333 fps (cfr)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 FastShuffle SSE4.2
x264 [info]: profile High, level 4.2
x264 [info]: frame I:62 Avg QP:18.60 size: 91066 PSNR Mean Y:47.72 U:54.71 V:55.53 Avg:48.94 Global:47.10
x264 [info]: frame P:4380 Avg QP:22.30 size: 36151 PSNR Mean Y:45.47 U:53.94 V:54.93 Avg:46.77 Global:44.74
x264 [info]: frame B:2950 Avg QP:24.34 size: 25199 PSNR Mean Y:47.94 U:58.00 V:58.97 Avg:49.20 Global:43.66
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 30.8% 47.6% 1.1% 20.5%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 22.1% 63.1% 14.7%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 4.2% 9.1% 0.9% P16..4: 40.9% 11.6% 5.7% 0.0% 0.0% skip:27.6%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 3.1% 3.5% 0.3% B16..8: 32.9% 7.6% 1.3% direct: 9.3% skip:42.1% L0:47.4% L1:49.4% BI: 3.2%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:60.8% inter:73.6%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 41.3% 40.8% 6.5% inter: 28.2% 20.0% 0.3%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 34% 34% 8% 25%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 10% 24% 30% 4% 6% 4% 11% 3% 8%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 13% 33% 18% 4% 7% 5% 10% 3% 6%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 61% 24% 11% 4%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:19.5% UV:7.8%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 63.6% 13.4% 16.8% 5.6% 0.6%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 75.1% 24.5% 0.4%
x264 [info]: ref B L1: 97.6% 2.4%
x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9771880 (16.418db)
x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:46.472 U:55.568 V:56.544 Avg:47.758 Global:44.289 kb/s:15475.64

encoded 7392 frames, 9.00 fps, 15475.64 kb/s

C:\Users\BlackShark>C:\Users\BlackShark\...\x264_1884.exe --crf 21 --frame-packing 3 --psnr --ssim -o 1884-crf21-SBSfull C:\Users\BlackShark\...\Video-SBSFull.avs
avs [info]: 3840x1080p 0:0 @ 10000000/333333 fps (cfr)
x264 [info]: using cpu capabilities: MMX2 SSE2Fast SSSE3 FastShuffle SSE4.2
x264 [info]: profile High, level 5.0
x264 [info]: frame I:28 Avg QP:18.26 size:194588 PSNR Mean Y:48.91 U:56.39 V:57.15 Avg:50.12 Global:47.25
x264 [info]: frame P:2307 Avg QP:22.49 size: 84652 PSNR Mean Y:45.08 U:53.36 V:54.38 Avg:46.37 Global:44.59
x264 [info]: frame B:1361 Avg QP:24.47 size: 24946 PSNR Mean Y:49.00 U:59.16 V:60.16 Avg:50.25 Global:44.35
x264 [info]: consecutive B-frames: 41.2% 25.8% 9.7% 23.3%
x264 [info]: mb I I16..4: 21.2% 63.4% 15.4%
x264 [info]: mb P I16..4: 6.2% 14.9% 1.5% P16..4: 39.2% 12.4% 5.1% 0.0% 0.0% skip:20.7%
x264 [info]: mb B I16..4: 0.4% 0.7% 0.1% B16..8: 33.3% 3.6% 0.7% direct: 1.9% skip:59.4% L0:41.5% L1:52.8% BI: 5.7%
x264 [info]: 8x8 transform intra:65.4% inter:76.8%
x264 [info]: coded y,uvDC,uvAC intra: 46.9% 41.5% 6.8% inter: 22.1% 19.2% 0.3%
x264 [info]: i16 v,h,dc,p: 30% 35% 7% 28%
x264 [info]: i8 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 10% 25% 27% 5% 6% 4% 11% 3% 8%
x264 [info]: i4 v,h,dc,ddl,ddr,vr,hd,vl,hu: 12% 35% 17% 4% 7% 5% 11% 3% 6%
x264 [info]: i8c dc,h,v,p: 60% 25% 12% 4%
x264 [info]: Weighted P-Frames: Y:17.1% UV:10.0%
x264 [info]: ref P L0: 67.9% 17.8% 10.3% 3.7% 0.2%
x264 [info]: ref B L0: 91.0% 8.1% 0.9%
x264 [info]: ref B L1: 95.7% 4.3%
x264 [info]: SSIM Mean Y:0.9781515 (16.606db)
x264 [info]: PSNR Mean Y:46.552 U:55.522 V:56.529 Avg:47.830 Global:44.517 kb/s:15239.71

encoded 3696 frames, 4.38 fps, 15239.71 kb/s

Last edited by BlackSharkfr; 3rd February 2011 at 13:28.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 19:36   #313  |  Link
MDF
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I had a similar experience, mine depended on the source I'd used for encoding:

On separate YUV raws (left and right) I'd obtained very little gain, either on bitrate and PSNR (almost close to zero, even negative in some cases), especially 1080p on sequences, for 720p I did still obtained a decent 30~35%.
But when I used a .wmv sequence (downloaded from 3dtv.at :P) the gains were up to 50%, which was still 1080p sequence, but different from the YUV ones.

I still don't know if this depends on the nature of the sequence per see, or the fact that the video was previously encoded which makes the encoding more efficient?!?!

Last edited by MDF; 3rd February 2011 at 20:05.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 22:42   #314  |  Link
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My hunch:

1. B-frames help more on SBS than frame-packing.
2. Frame-packing helps significantly on sources where inter prediction works well.

If inter prediction works very well -- as in a video with little or no grain -- even the effect of 1) isn't nearly enough to compensate for the fact that frame-packing works so well. My original test video was an artificial Call of Duty clip, which of course had zero grain and predicted perfectly.

However, if your video has lots of grain, SBS may be similar, or even slightly better.
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Old 3rd February 2011, 23:32   #315  |  Link
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My test video is also artificial : I used the game Trackmania to render a replay sequence, there is no grain in the video, just landscape, cars and motion blur.
The problem in my case is that I see almost no gains at all, both SBS and Frame sequential are extremely close to each other, and more importantly : there is almost no gain even over separate left and right streams.

I tried re-encoding the encoded files, to see if the blurring caused by compression triggers anything : I got very small results (8% : about 20MB less out of a 230MB original encode) when doing two successive encodes with the same process (two frame sequential in a row or two side by side in a row). But then the visual quality also suffers a little, so I'm not even sure if these benefits aren't caused just by the more blurry source than any actual optimisation.
More interesting : if I create a frame sequential encode from the side by side compressed file, I get a negative effect, the final video is bigger than the source (not by much, though). This would confirm the artefacts introduced by frame sequential are different from the ones of side by side.

I also just tried to resize to 720p, it's still a draw. The file size dropped by half though (it's logic, 720p is half the amount of pixels of 1080p).

Last edited by BlackSharkfr; 3rd February 2011 at 23:34.
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Old 6th March 2011, 07:23   #316  |  Link
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Hi! Stereocopic Player 1.66 is compatible with x264 1913 --frame-packing 5, isn't it?
I have some unsync when play.
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Old 8th March 2011, 19:26   #317  |  Link
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Stereoscopic player is compatible with frame alternate, but I don't think it can auto-detect when frame-packing 5 is used or self self resynchronize if a bug caused unsync.
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Old 9th March 2011, 09:19   #318  |  Link
invincible
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When I encode 3D : x264 --setting --output test.mkv test.avs. I open mkv file with Stereoscopic player, It plays OK. But when I mux the mkv file with mkvmerge and open it, it has some unsync frame when play. I used x264 r1913. I think ffdshow or mkvmerge or Stereoscopic player is not compatible with r1913. Everything is OK with r1884. The video source I encode is interleave 2 files with --frame-packing 5 technology (24/1.001 fps for each file)

Last edited by invincible; 9th March 2011 at 09:23.
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Old 11th March 2011, 01:00   #319  |  Link
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I think this is mkvmerge. Try to mux with GraphStudio so as to compare.
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Old 11th March 2011, 22:20   #320  |  Link
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I'm relaying a message, a few people at AVSforums still can't get their 3D frame sequential files play on their PS3s.
Has there been any improvement on the frame packing SEI message at every frame to match Sony's implementation ?
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