Free Pies

[Kedirekin]

Can we copy DDogg's post about free pies from the DVD2SVCD forum here, and make it a mandatory read?

These constant requests for new features and "bug fixes" to DVDShrink are really getting irritating. Come on people; DVDShrink is totally awesome and totally free. Do you want DVDShrink to leave like Jackie did (the author of DVD2AVI).

[Richk50]

"These constant requests for new features and "bug fixes" to DVDShrink are really getting irritating. Come on people; DVDShrink is totally awesome and totally free. Do you want DVDShrink to leave like Jackie did (the author of DVD2AVI)."

I'm sure DVDSHrink wants feedback, that's why he released beta's.
I agree some people just go too far, with their nagging and criticisms.

[Kedirekin]

Agreed.

I just want people to realize that suggesting 'just one more' new feature or "bug fix" is ultimately self-defeating if it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. All things in moderation is a very good motto.

For anyone who's curious about what I'm talking about:
open message about free pies

[snidely]

I just want people to realize that suggesting 'just one more' new feature or "bug fix" is ultimately self-defeating if it's the straw that breaks the camel's back. All things in moderation is a very good motto.

I also agree and am extremely grateful for Mr. Shrink's excellent efforts. I started a "bug reports only" thread for beta 3, and now I am kind of sorry that I did. If Mr. Shrink wants to hear about bug reports, then I am sure that he will ask for them - same with feature requests.

But following the "free pie" analogy, what is the right thing to do? If someone brings a bunch of pies and starts handing them out to everyone, but there is an "off taste" in the pie, should we all just keep quiet and pretend that the pie is delicious, or do we make an honest attempt to tactfully inform the baker that he might not want to put catsup in a blueberry pie.

Sometimes the end user is also between a rock and a hard place, as the free program, if it is full of bugs, really doesn't serve any useful purpose. For example, I use DVDShrink 2.3 regularly and I absolutely love the program. But I am very reluctant to use any of the 3.0 betas due to the various bugs that have been reported, as well as some that I have personally experienced. So what do I do, just keep quiet and use version 2.3 (which is the road I have chosen for now) or speak up and inform Mr. Shrink of the bugs (which makes me appear as if I do not appreciate his efforts). And then again, if I don't report the bugs, Mr. Shrink may just go along unknowingly thinking that his program is just fine just the way it is (like the baker who puts catsup in a blueberry pie). What is the proper solution to this dilemma?

Now feature requests are a whole 'nuther can of worms, and I personally think that people should not ask for features unless Mr. Shrink specifically asks first. So basically, I do not put bug reports and feature requests in the same category. (Hmmm...I just read back my entire post and noticed how my beliefs changed as I went along. That's to show you how undecided and confused I am on this issue.)

[mrbass]

Kedirekin is right. Don't slow down offering bug reports at all. But do consider how one goes about 'demanding' features. The two features which are becoming annoying and keep rehashing themselves over and over are A) replacing titles with a still picture like in Nero Recode and B) layer-break removal.

If/when dvdshrink implements those features then by all means bug report on them but I'm sure he's read them a million times.

[maa]

Don't flame me for this - its just a thought to consider and not intended to be pointing at anyone.

I'm sure DVD Shrink is amused by the protective comments here but there is nothing to even hint that he is annoyed.
If I were in his shoes I could easilly reprimand repeated requests by saying:
Guys - Its on the list for a future update.
or
Guys - I wont be doing that.

Repeats after that would just be removed by a moderator according to the appropriate rule.

Saying nothing just encourages any speaker to repeate his question - even shout it.

I am a beta tester for a professional recording studio software and I know what it feels like to write a detailed report and then not get an answer - even after a repeat request.

So anyway - we all know the rules.

DVDShrink has my thanks for a truely great piece of highly usefull software!

[mrbass]

It's not only annoying the authors but forum members too. It kinda fits in forum rule #1 which says
"1a) Use the search function before posting. Chances are your question has already been answered."

You could append that to say something like (if you catch my drift)
"1a) Use the search function before posting. Chances are your question has already been answered or feature request has already been requested."

[gnutellafan]

Im not sure if everyone here realizes this but the official (I think) dvd shrink forums are over at digital digest. DVD Shrink is a mod there and there is an entire fearture request forum.

I know I have been guilty of my fair share of feature requests. Why? because its a great program and the most exciting one available. I would gladly pay for it. Ive paid for others. I have offered to make donations.

If DVD Shrink doesnt want feature request made I wish he would address the issue head on and just say it. Or maybe he should say if he has no problem with it either.

Yes, there are some very popular feature requests that may have been made time and again. I know dvdshrink is busy but maybe it would help if he would say "replacing titles w/ still images is in the works" or "Ive seen the request" or "No." After all I know Ive made quite a few requests that I consider quite good. I dont know if he has seen them but I hate to repeat them for fear of annoying.

I tried to start a feature request thread so that the request could be organized and not repeated a few hundred times. It would have been nice if it was made a sticky but instead it was shunned and now every shrink thread has feature requests in them. Only to be lost forever - or repeated forever...

[echooff]

Hope DvDShrink doesn't get burned out. The pie analogy is all too often true. I enjoy his program and hope he continues development. It has made life a whole lot easier for dummies like me.

[Bluto]

When you throw a dog a bone, you dont wanna know how good it tastes.

Be happy it's free people.

Bluto

[DDogg]

But following the "free pie" analogy, what is the right thing to do? If someone brings a bunch of pies and starts handing them out to everyone, but there is an "off taste" in the pie, should we all just keep quiet and pretend that the pie is delicious, or do we make an honest attempt to tactfully inform the baker that he might not want to put catsup in a blueberry pie.

snidely did a great job of putting the dilemma into a nutshell. I sure don't know the answer, but I can suggest a few things that might make it a little easier for everybody.

METHOD and TIMING.

One thing I learned about all of the authors I worked with is that the way, method and timing of asking a question or request is what makes ALL the difference to them.

For example, NOBODY EXCEPT the Author should call or declare a "bug". Yep, maybe it IS a bug, but use some common sense and let the Author declare it a "bug". We should all refer to it as "a potential problem", "problem report", "anomaly", etc. Maybe an old hand like mrbass could call it a "potential bug ?", but nobody else should. To put that another way, I can call my wife ugly, but you better not Actually that example is probably not too far off the mark as these guys do get heavily involved with their creations.

Another thing is for folks to get a sense of the timing involved. Let's say a freeware Author has just released a version with a lot of new features that he has worked weeks or months on. He is sweating and concentrating on that release. He is FOCUSING like a laser beam ONLY on immediately fixing any bugs that invariably pop up. It is the ONLY thing on his mind at the time and he is looking for concrete feedback with REPLICATABLE examples on how exactly he can REPLICATE the "problem", "anomaly", etc., so he can first figure out if it IS an actual bug, and then swat it.

Many users will not take the time to post a replicatable example and present a "Hey, this is broke, wah!" type of post. Oh BOY, does that make these guys just go nuts with frustration. They then have to play the twenty questions routine that further stresses them out.

It is our responsibility to provide proper feedback on problems complete with a way to allow the author to attempt to duplicate the problem on his machine.

Now, add to that frustration when somebody with poor timing then says something like, "Well, your new build got me thinking and what I think you should do is rebuild everything and reconnect the pootenberry to the recirculating dingus". Hey, maybe that would be a good idea, but we should pick the timing to bring it up at a time the author is not right in the middle of a complex and stressful release situation.

I think, many rimes, this can make the Author feel like nothing he just spent weeks doing is appreciated in the slightest and cause them to feel down and frustrated. Maybe sometimes they just get a belly full of this frustration and decide they have had enough of it and stop development. We sure can't blame them if they do, but we can work to minimize that level of frustration with proper and tactful feedback given in the right manner and at the right time.

Maybe we should all remember that these good folks that do this freeware for us have an ego and normally a family or significant other. They typically are very self driven individuals that strive for perfection to create something that stands for them. In the process they normally sacrifice a lot of personal time. Generally they don't want much in return except for their work and dedication to the group to be appreciated.

Our job as users is to make sure they get the support and feedback they need, but to do it in a tactful and respectful manner always remembering that they do this for fun, work on it when the mood strikes them, and that they don't owe us nothing, whereas we do "owe" them a lot.

[oddwunn]

Excellent thread! I couldn't have said it better myself. I see people bitch and moan all the time about this or that, and they are getting the author's hard work for free. You guys hit it right on the head with your comments!

[NoFear]

Pretty simply, and it's been said already, but I would say "ok, this is the list of most common feature requests", and post them in a locked, sticky thread. When labeled clearly, users will most likely look over that list before posting an idea (unless they're stupid), and see if it's one of the "most common requests". This also works to the advantage of the developer, as he has a quick place to access the most common feature requests if he's looking for something to implement next.

Bug reports, I think, should always be posted. Especially if you're competant about reporting as much as you can.