Adobe Premiere Capture Single File Size Limit Avi from Analog source Problem.

[SunWolf]

Hello Everybody.

This is my 1st Post on Doom9's and i am happy to be a part of this particular Techno-Forum at last.This is great work you are doing here all of you.
I spend my 1st 5 days reading about and please forgive me in case i'll make a mistake considering the rules.

So now it's time that i adress you the biggest problems that i have with capturing and hope you will help me figure it out.

I am using Premiere 6.0,Premiere Pro and Virtual Dub 1.51 on an Intel 4 2.5 Hyper-Threading (1GB DDR 2) with Windows XP sp2 OS(NTFS).My Graphic card is an ASUS V9980 ULTRA using WDM capture Drivers.Audio is handled by my Audigy Pro 4.
I also have lots of HD space (about 600 GB,Raid 0,1 on 3 SATA HD).

I still haven't figured out how can i capture from ANALOG SOURCE (SVHS) with Premiere pro.I think Premiere Pro CAN'T CAPTURE from Analog source(Huge software problem there for Adobe, please tell me if this is true).
I don't use Virtual Dub for capturing either 'cause i am very disappointed in the quality so i use Premiere 6.0 for capturing scenes from my SVHS.Premiere 6.0 also gives me the BEST CAPTURE QUALITY i have found so far.

1.Capturing with Premiere 6.0

Problem : I CAN ONLY CAPTURE FILE SIZES UP TO 2 GB.

If i want to capture a WHOLE scene in a single avi. with my SVHS (let's say 50GB in High Quality) I CAN'T.
I searched a lot to understand why but i still haven't solved that damn problem.Some people told me that it's because of the NTFS file system (as i am using Windows XP) but that's not the case.FAT 32 had a problem with big sized files, not NTFS.
Some others told me it's a file size problem with .avi .aVI's could not be bigger than 2 GB.In a NTFS system, avi 's DON'T have a size limit.Yes o.k.So how come when i try to capture more than 2GB of avi footage in my XP (NTFS) using premiere, I CAN'T ???
The most annoying thing is that some guys in tech forums told me that they use Premiere for capturing with NO FILE SIZE LIMIT PROBLEMS.They make files of up to 50 GB.
I believe that it's not a Hardware problem.

Guys, i need Professional quality otherwise i would use just another freeware prog to capture.Yesterday I saw a post which said Premiere after the ver 5.0 DOES NOT have a Single File Size Limit.It's NOT the NTFS case.It's NOT about XP(some people don't have the file size problem).It's NOT my Hardware.
I need to keep using Premiere and that's why i must solve this.

To put it in another way...
The question i have is :

Why when i Capture from my Camcorder (Capturing from a Digital scource, Canon XLs1) using Premiere Pro (files up to 30GB) everything is PERFECT, BUT when i Capture from my VHS (Capturing from a Analog source, Premiere Pro CANNOT Capture from Analog source) using PREMIERE vers 6.0 i can Capture only up to 2GB of avi files ???

Can anyone suggest how am i going to capture video from ANALOG source (SVHS) using the Hardware and Software i mentioned above ?


PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE HELP ME OUT .............. :scared:

Thanks for your time ...

[communist]

I still haven't figured out how can i capture from ANALOG SOURCE (SVHS) with Premiere pro.I think Premiere Pro CAN'T CAPTURE from Analog source(Huge software problem there for Adobe, please tell me if this is true).
You wont find it since Premiere Pro can only 'capture' from IEEE1394 (Firewire / iLink...). Not much sense in adding a VfW capture tool as there are better ones out and most 'Pros' capture analog sources either over a DV deck or other methods.

I don't use Virtual Dub for capturing either 'cause i am very disappointed in the quality so i use Premiere 6.0 for capturing scenes from my SVHS.Premiere 6.0 also gives me the BEST CAPTURE QUALITY i have found so far.
Then you must be doing something awfully wrong as a LOT of people here use VirtualDub or other FREE capture tools to capture all kind of analog material with very good results. I recommend you check out the Analog capture guide:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/capture/start.html
and use the latest VirtualDub version that can be found here:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/virtualdub/VirtualDub-1.6.10.zip?download

Also 1394 capture isnt really capturing its actually just a copy process / transfer from the bitstream that is on your DV camcorder to the PC.

As for the file size limitation - the only thing I can think of is that Premiere doesnt create an OpenDML avi (ie an avi file that can be bigger than 2GB) when running the VfW /DS capture but does so when in 1394 'capture' mode.

[SunWolf]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to answer me, Commie , but what do you mean with ' Not much sense in adding a VfW capture tool as there are better ones out and most 'Pros' capture analog sources either over a DV deck or other methods. '

Which are the best ones (freeware or on pay) -according to your opinion-capture software.I am intrested in capturing Full size Pal signal with NO (if it's possible) quality loss.

Please elaborate about other methods and what exactly is a DV Deck ?

Also when i try to capture with Virtual Dub, the image is twisted.I don't get the whole image in the capture window.1/4 of it is below the window and i can't see it.

Finally ...can an avi. file be more than 2GB in size on OS(Windows XP sp2 NTFS)?
How am i going to capture an 50GB single file from analog source ?
Got all these old VHS movies i'd like to convert to digital files.

Thanks again... :)

[communist]

Thanks for taking the time and effort to answer me, Commie , but what do you mean with ' Not much sense in adding a VfW capture tool as there are better ones out and most 'Pros' capture analog sources either over a DV deck or other methods. '
They connect a SVHS (or whatever analog source they have) with a DV VCR (DV deck) or a Camcorder that allows analog signals as input. The DV VCR / Camcorder then converts the incoming analog signal to a DV stream that Premiere Pro (or any other 1394 capture tool) can copy to the hard disk.
There are even 'better' solutions using way more expensive hardware but that would be overkill.
Most DV Camcorders have this option - however due taxing reasons this option gets disabled in Europe (the reasoning being that a normal DV Camcorder would then also work as a VCR *grrr*).

Which are the best ones (freeware or on pay) -according to your opinion-capture software.I am intrested in capturing Full size Pal signal with NO (if it's possible) quality loss.
The best is usually what works best for you. For most people here that would include VirtualDub / VirtualVCR and others (anyone feel free to add your preferred capture software).

Also when i try to capture with Virtual Dub, the image is twisted.I don't get the whole image in the capture window.1/4 of it is below the window and i can't see it.

The best would be to use the latest VirtualDub version and start reading the Analog capture guide.

Finally ...can an avi. file be more than 2GB in size on OS(Windows XP sp2 NTFS)?
How am i going to capture an 50GB single file from analog source ?
The old version of the avi file only allowed avi files up to 2GB (regardless of wether the file system or OS allowed bigger files). Newer version of the avi file specs allow for files to be as big as the file system (4GB for FAT32 for ex.) or OS allows.
I have no problem creating 10GB or even bigger avi files with VirtualDub and I'm running WinXP / on NTFS drives.

[SunWolf]

You help is so valuable to me Commie, thanks again .

I use Virtual VCR 2.6(using Nvidia WDM capture drivers)(Is there a newer version ?) and the VHS/TV source screen is well -centered.I get a really good image,too.In the capture settings i don't get vfw capture drivers as an option, only Nvidia WDM.

When i try to use Virtual Dub 1.6.10(WDM or vfw) and Premiere 6 (Only vfw)to capture, in the capture window the image is NOT CENTERED.
I tried to change the drivers from WDM TO vfw(Virtual Dub) and vice versa but the image is still not centered.What could be wrong ? How could i center the source screen ?

In Premiere 6.0 i can't do anything about it as it accepts only vfw as capture drivers.(Maybe that's got something to do with the single file size limit of avi's), so the image is also Not centered.

What capture drivers do you use with Virtual dub ?

Right now i am capturing with Virtual Dub (with the No centered source image) just so that to see the quality/file size results of the output file.
I am trying to capture a bigger than 5GB avi. file...

...I'll communicate the results i get as soon as i get them...

[SunWolf]

I did it.
The file is 5.15 Gb.Lost frames 2000.
The file is bigger than the 2 Gb single size limit on avi's but the image i get is not moving so smoothly.Sometimes it goes slower.That's what i meant when i said that i was not happy about the Virtual Dub capturing results, but at least Virtual Dub captures more than 2 GB avi files.

[mic]

FWIW...
You should be able to capture analog without any drops and to a file as big as the capture drive's free space. I could have missed it, but I didn't see mention of a capture codec -- might want to try HUFFYUV if you aren't already.

If at all possible as Communist suggested, connecting your VCR to your camera instead of your PC, then capturing DV from your camera as with DV footage, will probably get you better results and eliminate a lot of your problems.

[SunWolf]

Sorry i had the frame rate at 15.000.That's why i had so many dropped frames and that slowing down activity i mentioned earlier.
I tried again and this time i captured a big file at Pal setting (25.000 frames per second) and the result was pretty neat if we exclude the Not Centered screen problem i mentioned before.That's something ...

My machine works with 2 video capture drivers.
1 st Microsoft WDM image capture (win32) a.k.a vfw
2 nd nVidia WDM Video Capture (Universal)


The vfw are installed automatically while installing Windows XP.
nVidia WDM Video Capture (Universal) drivers were found in the Asus V9980 Ultra set up CD because without them my graphic card doesn't have capturing possibilities.When i try to use a capturing application like Virtual VCR without having installed the nVidia WDM capture drivers i get the message 'NO capture drivers installed' and the programs don't work.

I spend my whole day making tests with Virtual Dub versions 1.5.1 and 1.6.10 and i reached the following results ...

1st Window's vfw capture drivers are responsible for the badly centered source image i get when trying to capture.

Up to version 1.5.1 , Virtual Dub recognizes only the Microsoft WDM image capture (Win32) capture drivers (also known as vfw capture drivers) and that's the reason i get that badly received source image on Virtual Dub's capture window.
Virtual Dub version 1.6.10 can use BOTH capture drivers.When i choose to capture using the Windows WDM (vfw) drivers the source image is twisted.
But guess what ?
When i try to capture using nVidia's WDM capture drivers, the Analog source image from my SVHS is WELL CENTERED !!!
Virtual VCR also, uses ONLY nVidia WDM capture drivers and the signal i get from the SVHS is EXCELLENT.


so vfw IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BAD SOURCE IMAGE IN THE CAPTURE WINDOW.


2nd Virtual Dub version 1.6.10. has the Storing options Deactivated so i can't use it for capturing.Why is that ?
Where can i obtain a Fully-activated copy of Virtual Dub version 1.6.10, because that would solve my capturing problems ?

Concluding, capturing software that uses Windows vfw are old school and the applications that use it don't give a proper image (always talking about my case).I CAN only use applications that use nVidia's WDM Video Capture (Universal) drivers like Virtual VCR and Virtual Dub version 1.6.10.
Premiere 6.0 and all the older versions of Virtual Dub before version 1.6.10. are mainly using vfw (CAN'T use both of them).

Also if anyone knows about a really good capturing application using nVidia's WDM capture drivers please inform us about it.
If anyone can add more information about that mess and how to get the fully operational version of Virtual Dub 1.6.10 , please please do.

I hope this will help more of us in the future...

Please help out guys ...

:thanks: :thanks: :thanks:

ps: What's that in your avatar mic? it reminds me of those poor dogs from Carpenter's 'The Thing' :)

[movax]

My VHS capturing works perfectly through the method Communist mentioned above: simply run the signal from the VCR to your DV camcorder, and Premiere can then use firewire to capture the video.

Of course, you could go out and buy an analog capture card/USB box, but they usually ship with pretty crappy software. Investing in a good analog backup solution will really ease your work and pain in the long run.

[communist]

If you downloaded VD1.6.10 from the link I posted earlier you should have a 'fully operational' version, in fact I dont know of any trial or limited versions since VirtualDub is free (free of cost and open source). So you must be setting it up wrongly.
Just to make sure:
Start VD -> File -> Capture AVI -> set up as needed (resolution / frame rate / compression etc.) -> File -> Set capture file (enter name and location where the capture avi file is to be created) -> hit F5 or F6, capturing should begin.

[mic]

@SunWolf maybe this will help...
When you have prob. capturing, hardware and drivers can be a big part of it. It might help to see if you can find reports of anyone using this card for video capture, and seeing if they had prob., what they use etc. You might ultimately find it's a great gaming card, but the capture portion is weak. If the audio doesn't go through the video card, but straight to the sound card you might also have sync prob.

Capturing video with a PC can be difficult to set up. There are new technologies that Microsoft's incorporating in updates, getting ready for Vista. There is some legacy support in winXP, and video software makes use of both new and old to varying degrees. Then comes the hardware and drivers, which may not fully support everything, if it is possible to support everything. And finally, winXP handles video pretty well, but it's very far from perfect. Windows tries to find the best match of files (usually direct show filters etc.) to connect software with your drivers and hardware. Different video software conflicts, even using one app and then trying another can cause a conflict with capture drivers and hardware. At any rate, I wanted to give a realistic idea of some of the things you *might* be up against, and at the same time explain a little bit why some of the folks here are urging you to get an external firewire device.

That said, VirtualDub is usually pretty straight forward, and if it's giving you problems, it could be that your video drivers don't supply everything V/Dub is looking for through winXP - you might not be able to get it working as it should in V/dub. You mentioned other software... There is a lot of software online that you can use for capture, and there's some built-in to winXP. Your card comes I think with a limited Cyberlink product -- I've read where upgrading to a full version, maybe of one of their other prog., can work out great. In fact, if your drivers are tailored for Cyberlink software, that might wind up being your only choice -- heard of that too.

My advice would be to try the stuff built into winXP, the movie maker software (make sure you've got the latest version). I'd also try one or two of the Cyberlink trials. This can give you sort of a baseline on which to build, making sure everything works with your card and something for you to compare to as you try other programs.

As for the avatar... :) Not feeling too well, with some sort of virus I suspect. Just sort of felt it was more appropriate for the short term. :D

[SunWolf]

Thanks a lot, guys.
Any more suggestions ???