Problem backing up 2 movies now, jerky video

[hoops10]

I have tried backing up two movies now, Sahara and Coach Carter, and they seem to back up fine. But when they are burned and played in a stand alone dvd player, the video is jerky the entire movie. It must be something with the encoding process somewhere. I used DIF -> Scenaid (using DGDecode) -> BatchCCE -> Scenarist. I let DIF detect the correct setting for the video. Can anyone shed some light on this problem? Thanks.

[Zeul]

is this Pal or Ntsc ? and see this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=702986#post702986

[hoops10]

Zeul, it is NTSC, Region 1. The weird thing about it is, the movies play fine on my computer thru Powerdvd. It's only once they are burned and played on a stand alone that they are jerky the entire movie.

[influenza]

Did you try an other stanalone? Did you switch media etc?

[hoops10]

I tried two different stand alones and two different types of media, a dvd-r and a dvd-rw.

[influenza]

Well it could be a field order problem of course. Is it interlaced video?

[hoops10]

I don't think so. Wouldn't DIF just used ForceFilm to fix that?

[influenza]

I don't know what dif4u settings you use, but can't you just check what the original is?

And can you define jerky?

[Trahald]

post your .ecl file and state the program versions (cce especially) and paste the last few lines of your .d2v

[hoops10]

I will first post the versions of the programs I am using, then when it's done encoding I will post the .ecl and the last few lines of the .d2v. Here:

DIF 1.4.7
DVD Dec 3.5.4.0
Scenaid 1.7.0.5
DGMPGDec 1.4.3
BatchCCEWS 0.9.1.6
Scenarist 2.7

I will post the .ecl and last few lines of the .d2v as soon as possible.

Edit: When it's done encoding I will post the .ecl file, here are the last few lines of the .d2v file:

900 6 0 4610069148 0 0 73 70 d1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3 f0 f1 e2
900 6 0 4610129864 0 0 73 70 d1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3 f0 f1 e2
900 6 0 4610201700 0 0 73 70 d1 f2 f3 e0
900 6 0 4610222528 0 0 71 72 d3 f0 f1 e2 f2 e2
d00 6 0 4610233524 0 0 d2 e3 f0 e1 f2 e3 e0 e1
d00 6 0 4610244088 0 0 d2 e3 e0 e1 e2 e3 e0 e1 e2 e3
900 6 0 4610669152 0 0 d0 e1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4611045704 0 0 70 71 d2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4611374408 0 0 70 71 d2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4611702456 0 0 70 71 d2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4612030648 0 0 70 71 d2 f3 f0 e1 f2 f3 e0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4612361088 0 0 70 71 d2 f3 f0 e1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4612611888 0 0 70 71 d2 e3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1 f2 e3
d00 6 0 4612949204 0 0 d0 f1 f2 e3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1
900 6 0 4613400168 0 0 72 73 d0 f1 f2 e3 f0 f1 e2 f3 f0 e1
900 6 0 4613449208 0 0 72 73 d0 f1 f2 e3
900 6 0 4613459004 0 0 70 71 d2 f2 e2 ff

FINISHED 100.00% FILM

Is that what you wanted?

[hoops10]

Ok, here is the main movie .ecl file:

[item]
title=VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1
vid_out=1
vaf_out=1
aud_out=0
aud_mode=0
vid_file0=D:\sahara\Scenaid\NewD2V\VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1.mpv
vid_file1=D:\sahara\Scenaid\NewD2V\VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1.mpv
vaf_file=D:\sahara\Scenaid\NewD2V\VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1.vaf
aud_file=D:\sahara\Scenaid\NewD2V\VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1.mpa
file_focused=0
packet_size=2048
timecode=0x0
tc_ref_frm=0
width=720
height=480
video_type=4
frame_rate_idx=1
drop_frame=1
qmat_idx=0
cbr_brate=3415
opv_q_factor=40
vbr_bias=1
opv_brate_min=0
opv_brate_max=8584
vbr_brate_avg=3415
vbr_brate_min=0
vbr_brate_max=8584
vbr_pass=3
quality_prec=1
create_new_vaf=0
pulldown_detect=0
letter_box=0
panscan=0
dither=0
dither_max=8
h_filter=0
h_filter_idx=8
use_filter=0
filter_val=6
seq_endcode=1
dvd=0
half_width=0
half_height=0
uscc=0
fast_mode=0
progressive=1
alternate_scan=0
non_linear=1
offset_line=0
lum_level=0
intra_dc_prec=2
aspect_ratio=3
gop_m=3
gop_nm=4
gop_hdr=12
seq_hdr=1
all_closed_gop=1
fix_gop_length=0
fix_vbv_delay=0
mpeg1=0
mpeg1_cps=0
samples_per_sec=44100
stereo=2
brate_idx=7
crc=1

[file]
name=D:\sahara\Scenaid\NewD2V\VTS__05_P01.P.16~9_1.AVS
type=0
frame_first=0
frame_last=178439
encode_first=0
encode_last=178439
chapter=10724:
chapter=11276:
chapter=17353:
chapter=28797:
chapter=40152:
chapter=51321:
chapter=51884:
chapter=61484:
chapter=66261:
chapter=72570:
chapter=75706:
chapter=84250:
chapter=84774:
chapter=93338:
chapter=96386:
chapter=101951:
chapter=102138:
chapter=110778:
chapter=112091:
chapter=117283:
chapter=122982:
chapter=131870:
chapter=133270:
chapter=142891:
chapter=146978:
chapter=153151:
chapter=156947:
chapter=161282:
chapter=169487:
chapter=178309:

[Trahald]

uhmmm... i dunno.. its progressive.. im not sure how that could be jerky... :/

[hoops10]

Its weird. It's happened on two movies in a row now. Something must be wrong. And like I said, when it plays on my computer, it plays fine. But when I play in on my 2 stand alones, its jerky. Could it be some kind of copy protection?

[influenza]

Could it be some kind of copy protection?

That would be a play correctly protection then, but no ;)

Can you define jerky?

[hoops10]

Here is what I see when I put the dvd in: I used jump2pgc and pgcedit so that when I start the dvd, it goes right to the menu. So then I start the movie. The intro to Paramount, or whoever, starts and this is where the jerkiness begins. It kind of looks like the movie is fast forwarded, then stops, then fast forwards again, then stops again, and so on. Does this help?

[influenza]

I does sound like a field order problem on interlaced video to me. If you open the avs in vdub and play it frame by frame is it progressive or interlaced?

[hoops10]

I've opened it in vdub but how can I tell whether it's playing progressive or interlaced?

[Trahald]

what version of batchccews are you using (including the letter at the end)

[influenza]

I've opened it in vdub but how can I tell whether it's playing progressive or interlaced?

Well you should see ' interlacing lines' . How's the file named by dif4u?

[hoops10]

@Trahald: Im using BatchCCEWS 0916f.

@flu: DIF named the file VTS__05_P01.P.16~9.M2V.

[Trahald]

@hoops
there was an issue with vif creation in the older unstables(only film-ntsc)..(it would cause issues where the vif didnt contain all the pointers to the frames for pulldown so you would get skips with scenarist) i forget which version i fixed it in but i would advise testing the most current unstable and see if the problem persists.

[hoops10]

@Trahald: I used the most recent version of BatchCCE (I think its the one that ends with 'k') and the problem is still there. I noticed something else, the audio stays in sync with the video. So as the video moves quick, then normal, quick then normal, quick then normal, the audio must also. Any other ideas?

Update: I viewed some of the extras on the backup that were also encoded. They played fine. It's only the main movie that is playing back very jerky.

[Trahald]

hold on for now.. i'll get sahara and see if i can duplicate. wont really be able to test until this weekend. as a test (if you have a dvdrw ;) ) try this... make sure you are out of scenarist.. delete the .vif file for the main movie .. the go back into scenarist .. compile, ifoupdate and burn. see if that helps.

[hoops10]

Trahald: I did already try this. Ever since I had a few movies awhile ago mess up with the .vif's the Scenaid made, I always delete the .vif's and let Scenarist make its own.

[Trahald]

well.. at least that somewhat helps... i knew i fixed the issue.. ok.. well.. im gonna get sahara today hopefully.. i'll report back

ps: batchccews pulldown does the .vif.. i'm contemplating taking it out since it only speeds things up a little.. also because we are pushing muxman as the compiler of choice. (faster , less fussy than scenarist)

[hoops10]

Wow, so everyone is going to be going to muxman instead of scenarist? I thought Scenarist was THE program for authoring.

[Trahald]

well.. its being replaced ;)... muxman's authoring is solid and really once angles are implemented it will equal scenarist and ilvu will put it past it

btw... i did sahara and it plays great on my player, no jerkyness.. i usedd cce 2.67.0.23 since you didnt state the version
(the ecl looked like a 2.66/2.67 ecl however)

[hoops10]

Trahald: I backed up another movie but this time I didn't use DGDecode and I didn't get any jerkiness. I wonder if it is the problem. What do you think?

[Trahald]

well.. since i saw your info showed dgindex i used it too. and still was ok.. i would say if you have time test one of the bad disks w/out dgindex .. in the mean while keep me posted if you see the issue again.

[hoops10]

Trahald: I backed up Coach Carter again but this time I didn't use DGDecode and it works fine. No Jerky video. Any idea how DGDecode could have caused the jerky video?

[influenza]

Maybe you can run dgdecode on it again an compare both files? And if you really have some time encode it again (partially). That way we could get a good idea if it has anything to do with it.

[hoops10]

Trahald and flu: Do you guys use muxman only now? Or do you still use Scenarist? If everyone is moving to muxman, I want to make the switch now and learn how to use it?

D3S7: Are there any plans to incorporate muxman into Scenaid?

[influenza]

Yes I only use muxman, with one exception: titles with angles, since muxman doesn't support that.

and :

D3S7: Are there any plans to incorporate muxman into Scenaid?

My scenaid version completely supports muxman ;) Are you a scenaid vip user?

[Trahald]

yeah.. vipversion has direct support. muxman seems to do ok reading .scp (scenarist scripts) but imo its better to use a native .mxp for importing which requires scenaid with VIP on

[Pike007]

@ hoops10

Did you ever get Sahara to work properly? If you did please let me know as I've been trying to do Sahara R1 NTSC and I'm getting the same "jerky" picture with only the movie part. The extras are fine.

@ everyone

If anyone has done this exact version (R1, NTSC) could you also post what versions you were using.

-Issue is only apparent on DVD player (PowerDVD plays fine)
-I know it's not a media issue.
-Never had this type of problem before.
*I've used DVD-RBpro latest version and it played properly on the same DVD player in order to rule out DVD player or media problems

So far I've done this DVD about 5 times all from scratch with different versions of DgDecode.

Using DIFU: DVD2AVIdg (still jerky)
Using DgDecode versions 1.4.0, 1.4.4 beta and RC1 (still jerky)

I would difine "jerky" as audio playing correctly but video seems to be playing at 25 frames per second rather than 29.97 and this causes a constant jerky picture. (This is the easiest explanation I could come up that everybody could understand)

I've also used Scenaid with Muxman (0.15 and 0.16) and Scenarist 2.6 with the same results so I'm wondering if it is something other than DGDecode.

Any suggestions?
Thanks,

Versions: DIFU 1.4.7, Scenaid 1.7.6, CCE Basic, BatchCCews 0916k (with or without segment encoding), Muxman versions 0.15j and 0.16p12, Scenarist 2.6

[Trahald]

@pike007 is that sahara? if not what is it?

[jel]

just a thought
but instead of looking at the video as the cause, maybe it is the audio?
i recently had a LOT of weird things going on with hellboy and audio errors causing the final dvd to pause ad infinitum on the standalone yet it played fine on the computer ...
anyways, as i said, just a thought...

[Pike007]

@pike007 is that sahara? if not what is it?

Yes it's for Sahara R1, NTSC.
I'm not sure what I could do about checking the audio. I'm at a loss as I've never had this type of problem. Is there a tool or something I could use to check this?

I think I'd agree with jel that it could be another issue other than video.

I'm willing to try any suggestions as this is something I'd like to resolve.

[jel]

pike007
hmmm..... try using pgcdemux to demux your audio streams for the vts thats causing you grief (i am assuming its not a vobid demux movie?)
then run each audio stream through delaycut with 'fix crc errors' selected and see if it finds any problems.
you can also repeat this for the 'fixed streams' located in your demux folder from dif4u
cheers
j

[Pike007]

ok jel,
I'll give it a go, thanks

[Trahald]

pike -- do you have the 'mark all frames progressive during pulldown' option on? heres why...

the issue doesnt show on my dvd player but my daughters i can see it.. when add field is used (it puts an extra rff at the beginning of the file for ntsc-film sources to make the field count even) is used.. it has to be used in conjunction with progressive frames(really it should always be on for ntsc-FILM). so far in my tests that has worked. try it please, pike007 and see what it does... right now that setting will be applied to your extras as well.. but this is just for a test. the next batchccews will make sure the forced progressive flag is only applied to film sources. it'll be out as soon as i get your reply.

[Pike007]

I didn't have 'mark all frames progressive during pulldown' checked. I will run it right now and will let you know as soon as possible. Thanks

[Pike007]

Well, I'm still having the same problem :(

I used DgDecode 1.4.3 this time with identical "jerky movie only" results. Extras play fine. I will try checking the audio next....

Thanks Trahald
(If you want, I could email you a short .mpg file of about 5 to 10 megs so you can see what I'm talking about)

[Trahald]

hmm.. that worked for me.. hey.. try this... again if you have time.. use the editor in batchccews to lower the frame count for that video by 1 (the main movie) and see if that helps.. also.. i'll pm you my email address

[Trahald]

ok.. i see what the issue is.. through some bad testing i thought what i did earlier fixed it.. the issue is not addfield.. the issue is actually 3:2 pulldown.. since that mode passed on my reference dvd player and software players i assumed the issue was fixed. 3:2 mode alters the rff sequence from 2:3 (the normal pulldown.exe mode)... most dvd players recognize the pulldown pattern and just spit out the progressive. some try to honor the field pattern and end up jerky if tff pattern doesnt make sense to it.. anywho.. i now shift the tff pattern to match the rff pattern and i did a few tests and seems to pass on my other dvd player. so batchccews0916l unstable is available for testing

[Pike007]

Ok, with newest build (0916l) there is no jerky playing on main movie.
That did the trick! Thank you very much Trahald :D

[Trahald]

sweet!... thanks for providing the help troubleshooting and testing it.