MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 hardware player announced by KiSS

[bond]

KiSS is going to release a hardware player that is able to play mpeg-4 avc/h.264 content in the .mp4 container together with aac audio, called DP-700

this means that you will propably be able to play your .mp4 files created with x264 (eg via the megui tool) or nerodigital soon on a hardware player

i assume that the player will use the new sigmadesigns chip able to handle avc!?

read more about it here (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6798.cfm)

[unskinnyboy]

Thanks for the info, bond. This is good news.

I forsee a new slew of newbie threads on asking why their "downloaded" ND AVC files won't play on their DP-700 and/or what are the ND settings to be used to make their encodes play on a DP-700 and still get "best" quality. :p

[SeeMoreDigital]

So.... if we take previous product announcements by KiSS into consideration, we'll see this new player around this time next year ;)

.....I just couldn't stop myself.


Cheers

[acidsex]

Thanks for the info, bond. This is good news.

I forsee a new slew of newbie threads on asking why their "downloaded" ND AVC files won't play on their DP-700 and/or what are the ND settings to be used to make their encodes play on a DP-700 and still get "best" quality. :p


Am I correct in my assumption that the player will only support ND profile encodes?

[Hans Scheike]

So.... if we take previous product announcements by KiSS into consideration, we'll see this new player around this time next year ;)

.....I just couldn't stop myself.


Cheers


LOL, and now when Cisco is involved, I'll bet they'll be so kind to implement hundereds of backdoors in the firmware so we can hack it over and over again :p


Sorry to waste your time with this pure nonsense but I couldn't restrain myself either.

[bond]

Am I correct in my assumption that the player will only support ND profile encodes?i am sure x264 .mp4 files will play too, so to answer your question:
no, it will not only support nd profile encodes

[iwod]

the faster the better. Although it will be sometime before it is widely and cheaply avalible...

[SeeMoreDigital]

Sorry to waste your time with this pure nonsense but I couldn't restrain myself either.I'm with bond on this too!

In my opinion it wouldn't be a very bright move for any device manufacturer to offer decoding by "Profiles" only, whether it be from NeroDigital or anybody else....

Providing the chip-sets are up to the task, ideally all MPEG-4/AVC decoding options should be available however they've been encoded...And the last thing we want for MPEG-4/AVC is for it arms and legs to be tied back by limited certification protocols either (Like MPEG-4/ASP has been due to DivX Certification)!

Personally, I'm more worried about container support in stand-alone players and devices. Obviously support for the MP4 container is a must... But because AC3 audio is still "the" primary force in audio encoding and decoding, I guess we'll all have to put up with the AVI container too ;)

But what about adding support AVC decoding within .TS and .MPG.... The mind boggles....


Cheers

[bond]

In my opinion it wouldn't be a very bright move for any device manufacturer to offer decoding by "Profiles" only, whether it be from NeroDigital or anybody else.... the mpeg-4 profiles make sense for ensuring interoperability

i hope that the upcoming chips will be able to decode full official avc main profile

Personally, I'm more worried about container support in stand-alone players and devices. Obviously support for the MP4 container is a must... But because AC3 audio is still "the" primary force in audio encoding and decoding, I guess we'll all have to put up with the AVI container too ;) nero surely has absolutely no interest in getting avc-in-avi support on the standalone players

But what about adding support AVC decoding within .TS and .MPG.... The mind boggles....afaik hddvd will place avc in mpg program streams and bluray will use mpg transport streams so these options are not so far away as it might seem

[SeeMoreDigital]

nero surely has absolutely no interest in getting avc-in-avi support on the standalone playersAgreed...

However, I can see many people will opt for encoding with x264 in .AVI, just so they can have AC3 too...... bless 'um :eek:


Cheers

[bond]

it makes more sense to combine avc and ac3 in .mpg, cause hddvd and some hdtv channels will do it too :D

[acidsex]

So does this also support WM9 HD? I am assuming its using the Sigma hip that supports both AVC and WM9 (VC-1)?

[SeeMoreDigital]

If the proposed KiSS DP-700 is fitted with either Sigma's EM8622L or EM8624L chip-sets, then yes....

http://img267.echo.cx/img267/915/sigmachipsets0zw.gif


Cheers

[bond]

http://ww2.nero.com/enu/PR_2005_09_3.html

[ilscuro]

My modded xbox plays maximum definition avc's via a software upgrade, so why is it so difficult to implement this into standalone dvd players?

[AlexeyS]

Is there some info about release date and price?

Will it play Nero AVC HDTV video (I have some movies and video from my HDV camcorder encoded with AVC)? Will this player play AVC High Profile videos?

[bond]

Is there some info about release date and price?no

Will it play Nero AVC HDTV video (I have some movies and video from my HDV camcorder encoded with AVC)?seems so

Will this player play AVC High Profile videos? dunno

[AlexeyS]

seems so
They write:
new Nero Digital AVC capable High Definition Media player

So, it's playback of HD-DVD format only or Nero AVC HDTV Profile playback too? Please somebody post info about this when there will be some other Kiss DP-700 news. :)

[IgorC]

http://ifa2005.videocoverage.org/

Nero Digital technicians talk about h264 and KiSS at IFA 2005.

http://server.charbax.com/videocoverage.org/IFA2005/Nero_technicians_ifa2005_DivXhd-videocoverage-org.torrent

http://server.charbax.com/videocoverage.org/IFA2005/Nero_technicians_ifa2005_DivXsd-videocoverage-org.torrent

KiSS-Technology show the DP-600, DP-700, Video-On-Demand and more talk.

http://server.charbax.com/videocoverage.org/IFA2005/KiSS_ifa2005_DivXsd-videocoverage-org.torrent

http://server.charbax.com/videocoverage.org/IFA2005/KiSS_ifa2005_DivXhd-videocoverage-org.torrent

[Custom_VCD]

My modded xbox plays maximum definition avc's via a software upgrade, so why is it so difficult to implement this into standalone dvd players?


Wrong

[SeeMoreDigital]

My modded xbox plays maximum definition avc's via a software upgrade, so why is it so difficult to implement this into standalone dvd players?According to e-mails I've received from modded XboX owners.... It can struggle to play 1280x720 and 1920x1080/88 MPEG-4/ASP content without dropping frames.... So I can't see it being able to cope with MPEG-4/AVC at the same pixel frame sizes....


EDIT:
Wasn't KiSS were supposed to have been the first manufacturer to launch players fitted with Sigma's EM8620L chip-set.... What-ever happened to these?


Cheers

[ilscuro]

Wrong


What do you mean wrong? wrong about what? you need to explain yourself.

My modded xbox plays nero digital avc encodes fact!

[SeeMoreDigital]

My modded xbox plays nero digital avc encodes fact!May I remind you, you said your XboX could play "maximum definition avc's". Maximum definition to me suggests playback of 1280x720 or 1920x1080/88 content.

Can your XboX really do this?


Cheers

[SeeMoreDigital]

This player also play XviD / DivX ?

I think the new players have to play H.264 AVC and also XviD / DivX , because if only plays H.264 not some much people buy it because the most of us have also a lot of XviD / DivX films.Yes, all of Sigma's MPEG-4 AVC capable chip-sets are fully backward compatible with MPEG-4 SP/ASP media (even with Qpel and 1 warp-point GMC).


Cheers

[iwod]

no

seems so

dunno

Wait.... no High Profile? Please can they for once in a while bring the hardware up to speed?

[ilscuro]

SeeMoreDigital correct me if i'm wrong, but a maximum definition encode is a maximum definition encode regardless of the framesize, the fact that a files has been encoded with the maximum definition avc profile makes it so.

In reply to ur question no i haven't tried playing a movie at the framesize of 1280x720 or more but i will give it a go and post back, the largest i have tried is 720X576.

[SeeMoreDigital]

SeeMoreDigital correct me if i'm wrong, but a maximum definition encode is a maximum definition encode regardless of the framesize, the fact that a files has been encoded with the maximum definition avc profile makes it so. This is where expressions such as resolution and definition can become a little blurred....

Typically High-Definition TV is displayed at a resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 pixels...

For some reason Nero like to use the terms: "Maximum Definition" and "Maximum Definition - AVC"... which personally I think is misleading..... I would prefer they use the terms: "Unrestricted MPEG-4 Profile" and "Unrestricted MPEG-4/AVC Profile".

That said, if you are managing to play std-def 720x576 content without problems.... that's pretty good indeed.


Cheers

[ilscuro]

This is where expressions such as resolution and definition can become a little blurred....

Typically High-Definition TV is displayed at a resolution of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 pixels...

For some reason Nero like to use the terms: "Maximum Definition" and "Maximum Definition - AVC"... which personally I think is misleading..... I would prefer they use the terms: "Unrestricted MPEG-4 Profile" and "Unrestricted MPEG-4/AVC Profile".

That said, if you are managing to play std-def 720x576 content without problems.... that's pretty good indeed.


Cheers

Cheers m8, now a question for you...
Being as though the xbox is 3 year or more technology, if it's possible to software upgrade it to play these maximum definition encodes, then why is it not possible with dvd players?

[AlexeyS]

Cheers m8, now a question for you...
Being as though the xbox is 3 year or more technology, if it's possible to software upgrade it to play these maximum definition encodes, then why is it not possible with dvd players?
Because DVD players have too weak CPUs.

Are you sure you play Nero Digital AVC videos and not Nero Digital ASP? Did you encode it by yourself?

[ilscuro]

Because DVD players have too weak CPUs.

Are you sure you play Nero Digital AVC videos and not Nero Digital ASP? Did you encode it by yourself?


I've been using recode for a while now...

Main features of Nero Digital:
- MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 Main Profile video
- MPEG-4 Simple and Advanced Simple Profile video
- MPEG-4 Video from 32*32 to 2048x1536 (AVC max reso), 8176x8176 (ASP max reso) High Definition resolutions
- AAC-LC and High Efficiency-AAC audio with up to 5.1 surround sound
- AAC Audio support from 8kbps to 480kbps
- 2 separate audio streams support
- Chapter support
- Multiple Subtitle track support (Subtitles are in DVD Subpicture format (aka VobSub))

I choose the maximum definition AVC profile( not ASP) to encode my movie, and they play on my modded xbox.

[RedDwarf69]

Not tried myself, but from XBMC forums seems that AVC playback is pretty good IF you "disable CABAC and deblocking when encoding".

About KP-700, anything interesting on these IFA 2005 videos? My talked english is still worst than my writed one. Specially, any idea about when will be shipped?

[Cyberace]

FYI, a standard Xbox (with Xbox Media Center) can not play native 720p or 1080i/1080p MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) videos, (well they play but it drops so many frames it becomes unwatchable). Xbox with XBMC can however play and upscale/upconvert H.264 video at DVD-resolutions (max 720x576) to 720p (1280x720) at an acceptable frame rate, but even at that resolution it might drop a few frames, ...through as the H.264 demuxer/decoder in FFmpeg (http://ffmpeg.sourceforge.net) and MPlayer (http://www.mplayerhq.hu) (which is what XBMC uses to decode video) gets more optimizations (for(32-bit x86) each week that those dropped frames might relativly soon be a thing of the past, (note by relativly soon I'm personaly guessing around 6-months or so).

Links to XboxMediaCenter's forum discussions regarding ACV playback on Xbox:
Nero-Digital/x264 H.264 MPEG-4 AVC codec, is the Xbox CPU powerfull enough? (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?;act=ST;f=2;t=14956)
HOW-TO play Nero AVC (H.264) in AVI by compile MPlayer with latest FFmpeg! (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=ST;f=8;t=13786)
Nero Digital MPEG-4 AVC / H264 in .MP4 containers support (feature request) (http://www.xboxmediaplayer.de/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.pl?act=ST;f=4;t=8555)

PS! A standard Xbox only got a Intel Pentium III 733Mhz (and 64MB RAM), but if you can get your hands on a DreamX 1480 Xbox (http://www.xbox-scene.com/hardware/dreamx.php) it can play native 720p HD-resolution H.264 video and output it to a HDTV display just fine without dropping any frames as it has a 1480Mhz PIII (and 128MB RAM)! :devil:

[AlexeyS]

Any news about Kiss DP-700, the "first hardware AVC player"?

[acidsex]

nope so far only Kiss Dp600

http://ces.engadget.com/2006/01/05/kiss-dp-600-coming-soon-to-the-u-s/

[masken]

So.... if we take previous product announcements by KiSS into consideration, we'll see this new player around this time next year ;)

:stupid:
2007 already? I'm surprised ;)

I've given up on this company.

[oluv]

i think toshiba's hd-dvd player that was announced for march some days ago is going to be more interesting than all the kiss-range. the toshiba is going to cost 500$ and i assume the dp-700 will cost about the same, but with what advances?
the toshiba is going to play h.264 as well as VC-1.

[AlexeyS]

i think toshiba's hd-dvd player that was announced for march some days ago is going to be more interesting than all the kiss-range. the toshiba is going to cost 500$ and i assume the dp-700 will cost about the same, but with what advances?
the toshiba is going to play h.264 as well as VC-1.
Could you give link to this player please? Will it play Nero's avc/aac/mp4 videos?

[oluv]

the "cheap" one is called toshiba hd-a1, the bigger brother hd-xa1.

have a look at google.

here at amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E1PTGK/qid=1136991098/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-7216342-7666434?n=507846&s=electronics&v=glance

here crutchfield:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8ndPWvYspBU/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=052HDA1

and i am sure it plays mpeg4 avc, as this will be the standard codec of hd-dvd as far as i know.
i don't know if it will play nero digital though. but as this is also a mp4 aac/avc codec, why should it not?

[niknik]

I've just recently started "waiting" for the DP-600 and am already getting tired of all the "delays"... I don't even want to think how it's going to be with the dp-700. :devil: