building a high end pc

[radar]

hi,im looking for some feedback on a high end motherbaord,processor and vid card.any input would be great,thanks.

[Sirber]

www.microbytes.com

get all the expensive stuff :p

[radar]

www.microbytes.com

get all the expensive stuff :p


thats what i was thinking. ;) but if anyone has any info to share,that would be ok to :thanks:

[twist3d]

well some budget info would be nice :)
if I had extra 2000 euros (which I will never have ;D) I'd spend it like this:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (Socket 939, dual core)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS (for playing games)
MSI K8N SLI Platinum
NEC ND-3540 16x IDE DVD+/-RW Dual Layer
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 (250 Gt SATA, or you could buy two and make raid 0/1)
Gainward GeForce 7800 GT 256 Mt PCI-E (buy another when/if the juice is running out)
2x 1 Gt, 400 MHz DDR (2gb ddr would be nice)
Samsung SyncMaster 940B (19" TFT with DVI)

[Sirber]

Update:
2x DVDR burner.

1 is not enough here :D

[radar]

well some budget info would be nice :)
if I had extra 2000 euros (which I will never have ;D) I'd spend it like this:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ (Socket 939, dual core)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS (for playing games)
MSI K8N SLI Platinum
NEC ND-3540 16x IDE DVD+/-RW Dual Layer
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 (250 Gt SATA, or you could buy two and make raid 0/1)
Gainward GeForce 7800 GT 256 Mt PCI-E (buy another when/if the juice is running out)
2x 1 Gt, 400 MHz DDR (2gb ddr would be nice)
Samsung SyncMaster 940B (19" TFT with DVI)



i would like to spend about 2500 can.i have a amd 3000+,so i want a better gamer and vid editing comp.this time i want to build my own.just not sure if i should go with a amd or pent 4,which have a faster processor.also im not sure which motherboard to use. :thanks:

[writersblock29]

@Radar

Could you describe exactly what's under your hood now? It might be possible to upgrade components and give you exactly the system you're looking for.

Otherwise, I've got some suggestions based off of observation. I have two jobs. One is doing videography work, and the other is testing memory modules for computing systems. In order to do the second job (memory testing), we use quite a variety of motherboards and processors -- not to mention putting them through environments like overclocking.

If you'd like to buy one from scratch and build it from the ground up, I'd most highly recommend AMD processors over Pentium. They run at lower voltages, and handle overclocking environments quite admirably. The retail heatsink and fan always seem to handle the cooling tasks without much outside help (although it helps to make sure your tower has at least one fan -- preferably two -- because of the heat thrown by your hard drive, memory modules, video card, ect).

Even though 64 bit applications are hard to find, I'd still recommend going with an AMD64 simply because of the ease at which they handle existing 32 bit programs... plus, you'll be ready when Microsoft finally works the bugs out of Windows 64 and hardware vendors release 64 bit drivers. You won't have to get very gung-ho about it: I'm only using an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ for my home system, and can say with all pride that it blows the doors off of most Pentium 4s I've used. Doom 3 didn't see me coming!

Also: Memory! And lots of it. For a gaming system (not to mention one that will handle your DVD projects), I wouldn't put less than 1GB of PC3200 into it. Not saying that's the BEST: I'm saying that's the LEAST I'd put in there. Don't be fooled by cheap memory, though -- you get what you pay for. I'll use this opportunity to plug Micron memory, availible at Crucial.com. Since I work at Micron (and how many people tell you NOT to buy products they produce out of knowing the company's "inside" politics) that should say something to you. Get all the memory you can afford. Serriously.

Of all the brands of motherboard I've used -- both at work and at home -- I've developed an extreme respect for MSI products. They take a beating. Out of all the brands we use (Abit, Asus, Intel, and Soyo amoung them), MSIs give us the least trouble -- bar none. It's what I chose when building my system. No regrets!

The best place I've found to peck around and get prices (the only thing I didn't get through these guys was the memory *Crucial.com gives me an employee discount* when I built my system) is Newegg.com. You can watch the specials and grab a little at a time if you're not in a hurry -- but you'll do alright if you just place a big order all at one time, as well.

Best of luck to you, and hope this helps!

[Shinigami-Sama]

yes msi and amd are your best choices
never had to fight with either of them
had to fight with intel and pentiums before, and my laptop outprforms my pc and it's about the same specs as my pc
amd64 3500+ newcastle @ 2188mhz and 1gb of pc 400 (IIRC) ram, I get 2x the frame rates in ut2k4 on this lil guy than my pc, which is odd I think, only 200pixels diferrance in the res but meh
amd = pwn
intel = depercated
next pc = amd64 x2 not sure about speed yet though

[radar]

hey writersblock29 thank you very much for your time and info.im still learning about computers but i will try to get my info.thanks again :D

[radar]

thank you Shinigami-Sama for your info.i will get back with my comp info.

[radar]

heres my comp info;amd 64 bit 3000+ with 1gig of ram.all in wonder 9800 vid card and a k8x800 pro ll motherbaord.dont know much about it.just want to build a fast gamer & vid editting machine.

almost forgot my harddrives ,both 120 gigs. (brands ???)

[Shinigami-Sama]

the processer is a lil slow for an encoder/gamer but will will do good in games 'cause it has a decent card backing it
if you can oc it though, but a should beable to get it to ~2ghz with OC safly

[writersblock29]

@Radar

This board? (http://www.amd.com/gb-uk/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_5707_5730~75121,00.html) Sounds promising -- you should do quite well. As far as speed is concerned... with my 3200+, CCE normaly runs between 2.6X to 2.8X real time -- provided that I'm not running filters in the background. At 2GB of dual-channel PC3200 DDR, there's always availible memory; there's a lot of instances where too little of RAM will bottleneck the encoding process. You'll probably see 2.3X to 2.5X thereabouts (rough guess). That is, of course, until encoders step up to the 64 bit enviroment. When that finaly happens, we'll wonder why we sat around waiting for so long, for so many years. When that day happens, though, your system will be waiting.

In the meantime, however, remember the basics for maxing out your computer's speed:
1) Scan regularly for spyware, adware, dailers, and trojans with a regularly-updated anti-virus software. Don't spend a fortune on flashy packages (Norton *cough*) when free software such as Spyware Blaster and Spybot S&D (use 'em together) are regularly-updated alternatives that don't intrude on other programs while they're running.

2) Defrag! Defrag! Defrag! Cluttered hard drives demand longer seek times. Organizing your files makes them easier to find; and easy usually translates to "faster."

3) Make sure your computer correctly recognizes your RAM. Enter your BIOS screen and make sure that what your computer sees is what your manufacturer sold you. Most motherboards are pretty good with the plug and play (you plug it in... it recognizes it without further action) but there's no point running memory underspeed or with the wrong voltage information. Also check your memory placement: dual channel usually* doesn't work if your modules are only in DIMMs 1 and 2 -- but you'll have better luck with DIMMs 1 and 3. Got 4 DIMMs? Fill 'em with the same configuration, and you're still dual-channel freindly.

* my use of the word "usually" is only to cover my butt in case somebody... somewhere... designed a motherboard with DIMM 1+2 dual channel. I have yet to see this... but that don't mean much. Read your mobo's manual to be sure.

4) Overclocking... I don't. Work does -- and to a heavy degree -- without problems. But my advice is not to go there with the retail heatsink and fan unless it's the dead of winter and your furnace is broken. If you do, tread lightly: 5-10% or so. But since you'll be away from your computer during long encodes (you can't possibly like staring at a progress bar... right?), it's doubtful you'll notice a difference. With a decent video card, you shouldn't notice much of a gaming hit by leaving things at factory specs.

There's more... but I've gotta go to work for now!

[squid_80]

if you can oc it though, but a should beable to get it to ~2ghz with OC safly
The AMD64 3000+ has a stock speed of 2Ghz. It can get to about 2.2Ghz easy if you drop the memory speed a bit, or use the expensive stuff.

I don't know why you'd have a 3500+ running at 2188 when the stock speed is 2200. EDIT: Missed the laptop reference, that's probably why.

[Shinigami-Sama]

er sorry about that, my friend has a 3200+ plus he OC'd to 2.2 I'm not which model
and yes my 3500+ newcastle maxes out ar 2188 at Fid x11

[radar]

hello writersblock29,thanks for all your help.if you were going to build a very fast gameing computer,what would you use:motherboard-? vid card-? ram-? harddrives-? processor-? dvd writers-? thats all i can think of ,if i missed any feel free to fill me in.thanks :)

[writersblock29]

@Radar

You mean without limited funds? I'd probably go with a dual core AMD Toledo 4400+ and max out my motherboard's memory at 4GB, along with a 512 Radeon ATI graphics card. But that wouldn't keep it from being obsolete tomorrow...

The problem with trying to get top-of-the-line is that you'll eventually wind up with a slow POS later. That's just the nature of the beast when discussing computers. Really, it comes down to starting with what kind of money you have availible (or how much overtime you're willing to work) for your dream system. It's not worth throwing out your nestegg and selling your kids for a system that's only got a life expectancy of perhaps five years; especially when you'll be able to buy that same system at Walmart for 1/3 of what you paid when you built it, two years from when you built it.

So I'd recommend considering the following, and in this particular order:

A) What exactly do you want out of your system? Do you need a DV in/out on your video card? If not, then of course you'll look for a video card that doesn't have these bells and whistles. Are you going to use it for video editing as well as gaming? If so, you'll be looking at large hard drives instead of meerly FAST hard drives. Determining EXACTLY what you want in step A will save you major $$ later on, since you'll minimize paying for things you'll never use.

If you're still not defeated money-wise,

B) What's the fastest processor you can afford? Are you a Pentium man, or an AMD man? Many will argue for either, and I'm no different when it comes to pushing AMD. Since you're still reading, you're demonstrating at least SOME value in what I have to say... So go AMD64. Runs cool, has all the "bugs" worked out of 64-bit processing -- and since Intel is now starting to produce 64-bit processors, it's a safe bet that 64-bit environments are where we're heading in the future of computing. 64 bit environments elliminate the restrictions 32 bit environments impose, and will unlock better potential from the very same processor you're buying NOW, later. For now, AMD64 runs 32-bit programs flawlessly. It's a fairly painless way of moving into future programs. Insurance is a good thing!

C) How much memory can you afford? An AMD64 3200+ with 2GB of RAM will always crush an AMD 3500+ with 1GB. The more -- and faster -- of memory you can afford to put into your system, the better off you'll be. Moving ahead to 64-bit environments will stress this point further, I assure you.

D) We're now up to 512MB video cards. Can you believe that? Nearly a year ago, 256MB was top of the heap. For gaming systems... well, what kind of games? Doom 3 won't play any better on a 512 than it will a 256, because the graphics have been optimized for a 256 (ID Software asks a minimum of 64MB... but who wants to play a game with rock-bottom graphics?). My feeling is that you can't go wrong with Saphire Radeon ATI cards... but that's just a personal favorite. Also consider that some graphics cards can be connected to HDTVs or plasma screens. Run a wireless keyboard/mouse on that baby and you'll not want to go back to a puny little 19-inch CRT screen.

C) Soundcards. Just because some motherboards have onboard sound doesn't mean this should be a selling factor in your case. Don't get me wrong! In most cases, onboard sound serves just fine. My motherboard has the capibility of 5.1 surround, and it sounds just fine toward that end. But my primary interest is video... and most of the stuff I work on myself is in 2.1 (stereo with a subwoofer) DV. I found the onboard 5.1 works great for movies (DVD) and occasional games... but perhaps I'm not as into games and their full capabilities as you are. There's the old "quality is subjective" line again! :p If you're going to connect to a 5.1 reciever... you'll lose nothing for trying if you do investigate onboard sound. You can always upgrade to a soundcard later. (Do NOT trust onboard video!!! For checking Email, it's okay... but for video or games, you'll be glad you got a card.)

D) Only after considering the above should you worry about hard drives. If you're looking at video as well as gaming, then you'll proportionaly be looking at the overall size of the hard drive as well as its speed and buffering. SATA drives seem faster to me... but that's arguable. For my video work, even the world's fastest computer isn't fast enough to keep me from leaving the computer to let it do its thing. So I'm not concerned with a system that might save me 15 minutes of encoding time: If I can occupy myself with other things for 2 hours, why can't I occupy myself for 2 hours, 15 minutes? Gamers, though, might benifit from going to a 15,000RPM drive over the traditional 7,200RPM. On the other hand... maybe not. How much $$ is left from your budget? Filled your gas tank yet? :rolleyes:

E) You'll have to cool all this stuff off. You do know that, right? Faster hardware means hotter hardware. Please take just as much care in choosing a tower case as you did what went into it. Fans are great and necessary -- but keep in mind that 1,000 fans blowing hot air onto hot parts contributes nothing. And make sure to keep the power supply beefy! 450W to however high you can afford to go beyond this. Serriously. NOW. Even though I face flaming, I'm going to say it: I've built several computers for several different uses -- both for myself and for friends -- and I've never... okay, I repeat NEVER -- had a problem with power supplies supplied with tower cases. Don't get caught up in thinking that expense equals quality! It doesn't! Consider that APEX $50 DVD players will often give less problems than $200 Sony players (search the forums!). It's like paying $20 for a plain green T-shirt just because it says "Eddie Bower" on it. The sad truth is that many of your no-name electronics have the exact -- EXACT -- same components in them as name brands. You're only paying for that brand name. And making a CEO incredibly rich.

I'd absolutely recommend some browsing on Newegg.com. Again, keep in mind your money-pot... what you can afford. Compare it to what you're looking for in a system. You will (if you've got an income like the rest of us) wind up sacrificing here and there... but try to base the whole system off of things that you can upgrade (Which is why I suggest 64-bit processors, even though you'll likely be running 32-bit stuff for a few more years now until hardware drivers become availible for 64-bit aps). And be creative! A lot of what you've already got will work in a newly-built system (like the old monitor and keyboard). We've got more choices than money, so look at everything. See how it'll work with what you need and want.

School night! (Gotta be up for work too damned early in the morning to mention) So I've got to run. But I've got days off coming, so feel free to post any questions I might help with!

[squid_80]

And make sure to keep the power supply beefy! 450W to however high you can afford to go beyond this. Serriously. NOW. Even though I face flaming, I'm going to say it: I've built several computers for several different uses -- both for myself and for friends -- and I've never... okay, I repeat NEVER -- had a problem with power supplies supplied with tower cases.

FWIW, I went through 5 generic power supplies in 2 years (all supposedly rated 400w+) before I spent big on an Antec 550w. No problems in 12 months.

[Taelon]

I think you've posted alot of good information in this thread, but I'm sorry I just can't let this go. On the one hand you said;
Don't be fooled by cheap memory, though -- you get what you pay for. I'll use this opportunity to plug Micron memory, availible at Crucial.com.And yet later you state:
Serriously. NOW. Even though I face flaming, I'm going to say it: I've built several computers for several different uses -- both for myself and for friends -- and I've never... okay, I repeat NEVER -- had a problem with power supplies supplied with tower cases. Don't get caught up in thinking that expense equals quality! It doesn't!You can't really have it both ways! Expensive may not necessarily equal quality, but cheap is probably cr@p.

Consider the power supplys quality as probably the single most important component in your PC! If a power supply fails catastrophically it will possibly destroy all those expensive components you put in the box. The PS has to withstand tremendous stresses and maintain the proper voltages during large current fluctuations inside the system as well as when the mains power is fluctuating wildly. A quality power supply will provide at least it's rated current at it's rated voltage and shutdown gracefully if the current draw is exceeded. A generic PS is likely go burst into flames when it nears it's nameplate ratings. It's crazy to save a few bucks on a PS when the health of the system components and your own safety is at risk. I'm not suggesting that you need to buy the top of the line server grade PS, there are plenty of respected OEM's in the middle price range, but if you rely on a generic unit you might as well just build the PC around a time bomb.

[Shinigami-Sama]

agreed, the people you built them for must not of used them heavily for extened periods of time 100% * 12hours
I had lots of problems with my pc then I bought that nice antec 400w PS and dam, it ran faster and more stable, I assume it undervolted me

[Revgen]

...A generic PS is likely go burst into flames when it nears it's nameplate ratings. It's crazy to save a few bucks on a PS when the health of the system components and your own safety is at risk...

Ain't it the truth ;)

I've had it happen to me, after I upgraded my system it overpowered the one in my case and it fried. Fortunately my Abit board I bought came with high-grade capacitors and my CPU and components weren't hurt.

About 30% of all PC's that die are the result of a faulty power supply.

I'd say the percentage is probably higher for power users like myself who play FPS shooters while encoding video in the background. It's better to be safe than sorry.

[writersblock29]

@Taelon

Micron isn't the most expensive, nor is it the cheapest, with regards to memory. But I recommend them since I work for them! I know how they're tested, and what the quality standards are -- which are really quite high. I also know what our rejects percentage is... which is pretty low; what components we test that don't meet PC standards (but still have enough usable sectors) usually wind up in toys, cellphones, what have you. So it's not that I'm playing both sides of the fence by saying that NO name brands are any good... except this one... and this one... and this one... I just know what goes into these babies. There are times when we'll test other manufacturer's product for resellers (under contract), and I'm always amazed how well Micron products hold up in comparison. That's why they get my two-thumbs-up.

Like I said, I knew I'd get flamed for stating that I usually use the power supply which comes with a chosen case; looks like my power of prediction is pretty spot-on! ;) But I have to say that I have yet to have problems with them. Of course, I don't think I've ever spent less than $100 on a case, since I look for availible fan ports, and find flimsy sheet metal (that's usually not much thicker than soda can aluminum) as both annoying and useless. Perhaps this influences the quality of power supplies these manufacturers select, since the cases themselves aren't meant as entry-level units.

Also (to acknowledge Revgen's post), I usually walk away from my computer while encoding rather than multi-tasking, allowing my CPU to concentrate on one thing. Not saying Revgen's approach is wrong! I've grown used to this since I've been working with video back in the days where computers simply weren't powerful enough to do more than one task at a time. Guess it stuck. To be fair about it, though... how many towers come pre-equiped with power supplies of that magnitude? 90% of them don't break past 500W. Which, of course, was probably his point.

[Taelon]

@writersblock

I call it a self-fulfilling prophecy, although I don't see where you were actually flamed ;)

I knew what you meant, that if you buy an expensive case that includes a PS it's generally a quality unit, they have a reputation to maintain too. However, someone who may be less knowledgeable about Hardware might read your otherwise excellent advice and take you at face value, and not give the PS that comes with their cheap generic case a second thought. That's the only reason I felt I needed to speak up on the matter, and would expect you to do the same if I recommended generic memory :)

[writersblock29]

@Taelon

[Qouted] "That's the only reason I felt I needed to speak up on the matter, and would expect you to do the same if I recommended generic memory "

Except you'd never have made that arguement -- you'd never be able to get your computer booted! :D *rib!*

[Qoute] "However, someone who may be less knowledgeable about Hardware might read your otherwise excellent advice and take you at face value, and not give the PS that comes with their cheap generic case a second thought."

Good point. Considering that I don't multi-task much on my systems or overclock, the strain I put on a PS is minimized. I can see where I've assumed -- without realizing it -- that others do the same. After all, when I'm encoding video on either of my encoding systems (both are configured pretty much the same, except that only one has an internet connection installed) and want to check my Email, I simply go to the laptop. Or I'll encode on one machine, and play a game with the other, while the laptop recharges. When I was first learning computers, even top-of-the-line was a POS; you had to baby them. Today's systems will wash your dishes for you. But I baby them. ;) Just grown used to it, I guess. And I don't want them dropping my dishes!

[radar]

hey everyone im thinking of starting my build with a ANTEC P180 ATX ADVANCED MID TOWER ALUMINUM CASE 4X5.25 1X3.5 6X3.5INT NO PS W/ USB & AUDIO PORTS.any feedback on this case and what would be a good power supply to go with it.

writersblock29 whats your opinion.thanks

[Shinigami-Sama]

haha
little background on generic PSUs
the lowest end ones can be bought for 7dolloars if your a vender or a instructor, SEVEN DOLLARS CAD!!!!
now, would you trust it? ;0

[writersblock29]

@Shinigami-Sama

Where? What kind are they? Just because a given power supply may come with a given case, doesn't automatically mean that ALL (supplied) power supplies are the same... and therefore ALL (supplied) power supplies are crap. Keep in mind that those marketing *premium* power supplies want to make money -- and promises don't cost much. Promises don't cost anything! So if someone wants to rebadge a $7 PS and attach $70 worth of promises to it... in the end the consumer simply pays for $70 of hype. Don't get me wrong! There are cheap computer parts out there that deliver... well... NOTHING for performance -- and paying a few extra $$ will fix that issue for you by buying a new one from a respected vendor/manufacturer. But just the fact that a given component comes within a package doesn't automatically make that component worthless. Nor does it mean that all included power supplies are the $7 Walmart specials you're mentioning. I can only really state, again, that I've not had any issues with the systems I've built using supplied PSs. I'll also state, again, that I don't tend to multitask on my systems while demanding 100% out of them for video encodes or whathaveya. So it's either luck, or I've managed to get better quality power supplies (than is usual) with the towers I've bought. Of the systems I've built for others... since they still ask me to add upgrades from time to time, they must still respect the work done for them on their systems -- systems with EOM power supplies. I don't mean to state that all included power supplies are A-okay... just don't write them off simply because they came with your tower.

(Sidenote: ANTEC includes their own power supplies with some of their cases. These power supplies are also for sale seperately for the same premium prices other brands are charging. Just an observation.)

[writersblock29]

@radar

From what I've read Online about the case you're considering, your heart's in the right place; lots of room to work and a tool-free design helps make putting things together easier -- and you're choosing a case designed around good ventilation. Having firewire and USB ports on the front will come in handy as well. Having the option of dedicating a fan to your graphics card might pay off big for a gaming system: Even though most high-end graphics cards have fans already in place on them, they do little good if all they're doing is grabbing air that's already heated by hard drives, processor, and memory... it's kind of like trying to cool off by sitting in front of a furnace. Fry your video card, and your games aren't going to lead to enjoyment! (More like it'll add to "what's wrong with this @#$#" posts that have more bad language in them than a family filter can remove.)

If you can find a case that offers all of this as well as a window, you'd be set up pretty well. The window lets you periodically check to ensure that all your fans are working as they should without having to open your case: You'd be surprised how often the little fans on a chipset heatsink won't work correctly. Also, consider that front door which hides your CD/DVD drives. If you take care not to situate your tower in a cluttered area (which you shouldn't do, since you risk obstructing air flow and adding dust*) then you should have plenty of room to open this. I don't like the doors on video encoding computers, since I'm swapping out disks frequently, but this will be less of a concern for a gaming system. If you're going to sit your tower on a carpeted floor, be sure that the carpeting doesn't make a chore out of swinging the door open. If it does, you can simply get a floor mat (I've seen several for around $12 in local office stores) to set it on, or even a block of wood to raise the tower above floor level.

*Cluttered areas just don't get cleaned as frequently, and build up dust. Clog the dust filters, and you reduce air flow.

Another thing to think about is where you're going to construct your system. If you've got a cleared kitchen table and tile flooring, that'd be my choice. Carpeted rooms... well, you know what happens when you shuffle your feet on carpeting and touch a doorknob, right? Zap! It takes less static than you can feel to destroy a computer component. If you've got long hair, tie it up. Long-sleeved flannel shirt? Take it off. Get a wrist strap (pretty much any electronics store that sells computer components will have these, and they aren't very expensive) and use 'er. A system that's in an enclosed case and plugged in will be grounded, but it's not a good idea to work on a motherboard while your power supply's plugged into it -- I've seen motherboards power themselves on simply by reseating a network card.

Speaking of power supplies (hot topic these days ;) ), all these fans are going to need juice, and plenty needs to be left over to run everything else you're going to throw at it. I'd be looking at 550W thereabouts, just to give you room to grow. I obviously won't recommend a certain brand or price range (if you'll read the testemonials on the Newegg website, you'll notice that -- no matter how expensive the PS or who makes it -- somebody out there will have a complaint and swear by another brand that someone ELSE has an intolerance to), but I will say to pay attention to what plugs are on them just to size up your upgrading potential.

[Shinigami-Sama]

note how I said 'lowest' ;)
I know not all are like that, however most are, atleast in my area, one of the highest compition rateing in all of N.America in turns of pc venders, so it may not be to much of a problem unless your trying to add a new PSU to lets a say a dell :P

[radar]

hi writersblock29 thank you very much for your time.im going to get that antec case and also thinking of getting AMD ATHLON 64 X2 4400+ DUAL CORE PROCESSOR S939 TOLEDO 2.2GHZ 1MBX2 90NM RETAIL BOX .what do you think and what would be a good motherbaord to go with it.


here are some power supply's,what do you think.

AEROCOOL TURBINE POWER 550W ATX12V V2.0 24PIN ACTIVE PFC 120MM FAN DETACHABLE CABLE POWER SUPPLY


Antec True Control 2.0 550W ATX12V V2.0 Power Supply W/ Control Panel & 120MM Fan


Fortron FSP/SPI FSP550-60PLN-R 550W EPS12V 24PIN Power Supply Pfc W/ 80MM Fan Dual Xeon Retail

[writersblock29]

@Radar

Well... If you go with a 24-pin Power Supply, I'd strongly recommend the MSI NEO4 PLATINUM. I'll give you some links for reading material just to allow you to judge for yourself.

www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N_Neo4-F&class=mb

With a little information about this particular chipset:

http://hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=678

Based off of what I've read, I'd go with the Antec power supply. Interesting link here:

http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/directron/tpii550.html

That's kinda my 2 cents. :p

[radar]

hey writersblock29 thanks again.i read the info and called a local comp store for some prices.they said i should use Asus A8N SLI Premium NVIDIA Socket 939 ATX Motherboard / Audio / PCI Express / Gigabit LAN / USB 2.0 & Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID.whats your opinion.the asus is only 10 bucks more. :confused:

[writersblock29]

@Radar

I wouldn't do it. If I had to list two manufacturers whose motherboards cause us the most trouble, I'd immediately list ASUS and SOYO. They tend to have trouble communicating with network and video cards, either giving us false "no-boots" (the same memory modules boot up just fine if all we do is reseat the video card) or refusing to link with our network (moving the network card to a different slot usually fixes this... for awhile). ASUS in particular sometimes "half-boots," meaning they only recognise part of the memory installed. Reseating the memory modules usually fixes this, meaning it's only the module's fault perhaps 1% of the time this happens. Lockups during testing aren't uncommon, either.

NOW. This is the "in all fairness" paragraph. ;) The motherboards used where I work are used hard. Modules tested run for several hours and the tests are demanding on the processors (some of which are overclocked). The memory modules are removed and replaced frequently, and this occurs 24 hours a day. That puts a lot of wear on a DIMM that's only designed for perhaps three changes of memory within the life of the motherboards. Since you, as a home-user, are bound to put memory in it once, throw it in a case, and forget about it... you may not face the problems I've listed. On the other hand, if an MSI or an ABIT motherboard will withstand OUR punishment -- and we're not really using them for what they're designed for -- I don't think you'll be able to break it! It's a confidence thing.

[scientist]

:helpful:
i say this because my hp435 digital camera delivers 15fps to the avi file,
AND I CAN'T OPEN IT WHIT AUTO GK OR EVEN GORDIAN KNOT "classic" they olnly accept 25 or 50 or even more for HDTV........................


:confused:


please help me


titojff@yahoo.com


THANXS

[radar]

writersblock29

ok i have these items picked :Antec True Control 2.0 550W ATX12V V2.0 Power Supply W/ Control Panel & 120MM Fan

MSI K8N NEO4 Platinum SLI Motherboard ATX S939 DDR 2PCI-E16 3PCI SATA RAID Sound LAN 1394

ANTEC P180 ATX ADVANCED MID TOWER ALUMINUM CASE 4X5.25 1X3.5 6X3.5INT NO PS W/ USB & AUDIO PORTS

AMD ATHLON 64 X2 4400+ DUAL CORE PROCESSOR S939 TOLEDO 2.2GHZ 1MBX2 90NM RETAIL BOX

now im going to need some ram and i dont have a clue what to look for.keep in mind that i want the full potential out of my amd and motherbaord. :thanks:

p.s. also what about a network card???

[Shinigami-Sama]

well
windows your limited to 4gb ram
win64 even more
so bacisly
get the fastest you can afford
stay away from ddr2, it won't work for you
low CAS is very good too
I think you'll need a higher rateing psu though, dual core uses lots of power, along with pci-e cards do too
and NICs are pretty much all the same, jsut dont buy the $5 specalty at serviceman frankinstein's pc shop :P

[radar]

thanks Shinigami-Sama for your info.hey what online computer store do you purchase from.

[Shinigami-Sama]

I search around localy<Vancouver> one of the highest compation areas for pc vendors, can get realy good deals localy
but if you live in Canada try tigerdirect.ca
if not look around newegg

[writersblock29]

@Radar

With that particular motherboard, you won't need to worry about a seperate networking card; there's one on-board that'll work quite beautifully for cable or DSL linkup.

Shinigami-Sama makes an interesting point about 64-bit operating systems, in that they remove the 4GB memory access limit imposed by standard 32-bit systems. The problem that I've run into with trying out Windows XP 64 is that driver support is virtually non-existant right now; not too many hardware manufacturers have put out 64-bit drivers. Definately this will change -- and soon enough, at that. But at this time, there aren't many games that are written in 64-bit environments. I'm also not sure whether motherboards manufacturers will release updated 64-bit drivers for their chipsets in order to allow you to add more than the standard 4GB of RAM most motherboards max out at. 64-bit environments are just in their infant stage... it's really a bit frustrating not to have all the information one needs to decide on making the jump. I know that Windows 64 supports 32-bit programs, just as 64-bit processors support 32-bit operating systems like the current XP/NT/2000/ME/ect. But you'll of course gain little to no gain by running a 32-bit program on a 64-bit operating platform. Nor will you get the full potential of an AMD64 by running a 32-bit version of Windows. Like I said, frustrating.

Crucial.com has a pretty nice suggestion device on their site, wherein you select your motherboard's make and model number, and it calls up a listing of the modules proven to run on your system. I'd recommend PC3200. You've got choices to make such as whether you want heat spreaders (such as found on Balistix modules), or if you feel the fans on your tower can handle things (usually they can). Since you're building a gaming system, I would put AT LEAST 2GBs in there, with even more perfered. Your chosen motherboard maxes out at 4GBs, so I say use 'em. But if the expense of 4 1GB modules forces you to think about making sacrifices on your video card, DON'T DO IT. Pop in 2GBs and get a good graphics card, so that the graphics aren't your bottleneck -- jerky video will never be an enjoyable experience, and that's where most of your demand is. You can always get more RAM later... but upgrading video cards means buying a whole new one. Not a good trade-off!

Again, backing up Shinigami-Sama, DDR2 just isn't the revolution that DDR was when it first appeared. Even in video processing enviroments, it only speeds up a six-hour encode by perhaps fifteen minutes over DDR1 PC3200. Also, it'll never work in your chosen motherboard, since DDR1 has 184 connectors.

Each of your DIMMS has a 1GB support limit, and you have 4 DIMMS. The closer you can get to that limit, the better. Most of the time, you'll find a CAS latency of 3 on these modules... and that's not bad at all. With CAS latency, the lower the value, the faster the access speeds. If you have to choose between a CAS 3 or a CAS 2.5, go with the 2.5. But if you have to buy the memory in chunks, don't mix modules of different sizes and CAS latencies. Always endeavor to have all of your modules matching.

Can I plug Crucial? And Micron memory? It's not brown-nosing my company to say they're the best I've seen. (Hell, if any of the suits read these forums, I'd be mighty impressed!)

[Shinigami-Sama]

ewll theres always haxed linux that allows greater than 4gb of memory
but yes
winblos jsut blowz :D
and yes the less cas the better

but on win2k apperntly my netoworl os book says it can only get up to 3 gb of memory 0.o
which I know to be false from friends running 4gm it, its strange...

[radar]

thanks writersblock29,i checked out Crucial.com and found what ram would go with my motherbaord.these are some i can choose from:

OCZ EL Platinum PC3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR400 CL2-3-2-5 184PIN Pin Dual Channel Memory Kit /W Ramsink

Kingston ValueRAM PC2-3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-400 CL3 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit (KVR400D2N3K2/2G)

CORSAIR VALUE SELECT PC3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR400 CL3 184PIN DIMM DUAL CHANNEL MEMORY KIT (VS2GBKIT400C3)

Kingston Valueram PC2-3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR2-400 CL3 ECC REG. 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory Kit (KVR400D2R3K2/2G)

i am going to start with 2 gigs of ram for now.if you were going to pick some ram based on my motherbaord,what would you prefer.it dosnt have to be from my list. :thanks:

[Shinigami-Sama]

corsair has the realy good warenties and preformace, kingston is ok, I;ve hada few troubles with it and it seems doom9 has too with his dieing on him, but thats prolly a coincidance, but I'd say the corsair, havn't heard anything to bad yet :)

[writersblock29]

@radar

Well, let's see... If you've decided to truely go with the MSI K8N NEO4 Platinum SLI, you can only choose from 184 PIN memory, since 240 PIN is DDR2. It's currious that Crucial's website pulled these for you to choose from... I'll visit that site and see what pulls up; it may be something to bring to their attention. I'm aware that some motherboards were at one time made to accomidate either DDR or SDRAM PC133, back when DDR was first introduced, but I can't imagine why a board would be made to take either DDR1 or DDR2! MSI's website lists the NEO4 as a 184 PIN.

*You're making a pretty screamin' machine, by the way! Makes me want to build one, too!*

[Edit] Just visited Crucial's site, entered your motherboard's specs, and wound up with the information on this link:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=MS%2D7100+%28K8N+Neo4+Platinum%2DSLI%29&tabid=CR

Crucial's what I would recommend first, since you're dealing with premium parts made from wafers that contain a high density of usable sectors. Corsair doesn't give us much grief while contract testing, so if I had to have a second choice, it'd be them. They almost always test 100% of their lots rather than samples, so modules you buy are modules that passed these tests. That's why they're both (Crucial or Corsair) backed with warranties; there isn't much chance of a return.

Newegg link for Corsair below:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145579

MSI recommends single-sided modules for dual-channel applications... but I'm running double-sided Crucial 512s in all of my DIMMs and they work flawlessly in a dual-channel environment. We've tested double-sided Corsairs this way, too, without incident. Since either brand's fully guaranteed, you risk little and gain plenty. If you want to play it safe, it might pay to either call or Email the supplier to confirm the part number, and check that to MSI's listing of compatible modules. But I feel pretty safe about these recommendations. C'mon! Trust a complete stranger (who has a name like "writersblock" ;) ) who's probably half a continent away! Would I lie??? :D

[radar]

writersblock29

the ram was my mistake,still new at computers.i will get back with a ram list :rolleyes:

[writersblock29]

@Radar

That's cool; nobody's born into this! Well, maybe Bill Gates. But everyone else has to go through that painful "trial and error" stage... like Bill Gates! Okay, now that I think of it, none of us came out of our mothers rambling about mother boards. At least now I know I don't need to bulldog Crucial about faulty information popping up on their website. What have you decided on as a video card?

[radar]

writersblock29

im having troubles with finding and picking ram.i am thinking of getting all my components from ncix.com or tigerdirect.hard to find my ram-1 gig sticks with 184 pin.heres one CORSAIR VALUE SELECT PC3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR400 CL3 184PIN DIMM DUAL CHANNEL MEMORY KIT (VS2GBKIT400C3) $327.18 can.

this is my list from ncix.com

CORSAIR VALUE SELECT PC3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR400 CL3 184PIN DIMM DUAL CHANNEL MEMORY KIT (VS2GBKIT400C3) $327.18 can.

MSI K8N NEO4 Platinum SLI Motherboard ATX S939 DDR 2PCI-E16 3PCI SATA RAID Sound LAN 1394 $222.30 can

AMD ATHLON 64 X2 4400+ DUAL CORE PROCESSOR S939 TOLEDO 2.2GHZ 1MBX2 90NM RETAIL BOX (ADA4400CDBOX) $728.12

if you know of better priceing,please let me know.

p.s. keep in mind that im canadian with the funny money :D

[Shinigami-Sama]

woo for CAD, good deal for stuff, might start geting a parts list ready for myself :D

[radar]

woo for CAD, good deal for stuff, might start geting a parts list ready for myself :D

do you think this is ok prices.ncix is cheaper than tigerdirect.i would like to compair a us site after exchange

[writersblock29]

@Radar

That's a good list, and the right memory. As far as pricing goes... I'm nearly as clueless about currency exchange as I am about women's moods. :p Living in America, I've found that Newegg.com is about the least expensive place to buy computer equipment, and tend to get pretty much everything there. (I'll also watch sale adds locally, and buy stuff that's just too good a deal to pass up in the hopes that I'll use it on a build or as an upgrade later.) I've dealt with Tigerdirect before, and have no ill will towards them.

Are you getting the video card later on? Can't blame you if you are -- they're major $$$. I'm hoping you just didn't overlook it, 'cus it's really the star of the show.

[radar]

writersblock29

heres newegg's price list...


AMD ATHLON 64 X2 4400+ DUAL CORE PROCESSOR S939 TOLEDO 2.2GHZ 1MBX2 90NM RETAIL BOX (ADA4400CDBOX) $534.01 us


MSI K8N NEO4 Platinum SLI Motherboard ATX S939 DDR 2PCI-E16 3PCI SATA RAID Sound LAN 1394 $162.50 ($137.50 after $25.00 Mail-In Rebate

CORSAIR VALUE SELECT PC3200 2GB 2X1GB DDR400 CL3 184PIN DIMM DUAL CHANNEL MEMORY KIT (VS2GBKIT400C3) $216.00


i think it will be cheaper even with the exchange.$1.17 can to $ 1.00 us


update price list:newegg........$1058 can funds before tax and shipping

ncix.............$1277.60 can funds before tax and shipping