SmoothDeinterlace broken when using AVS 2.5.6

[kevinm]

I have a problem with, SmoothDeinterlace when using AviSynth 2.5.6 v2.5.6 Beta4 (AviSynth_100705.exe) I try to load the following script in TMPGEnc ..


Input = AVISource("G:\WinDV\Tape8\tape8_ntsc_1_1.avi") # Type2
vfields = Input.SmoothDeinterlace(tff=false,doublerate=true)


In TMPGEnc I get the following error:

“Weave: Weave should be applied on field-based material: use AssumeFieldBased() beforehand”


I switched to using AVS 2.5.6 recently and have been using mvbob to do deinterlacing as part of a NTSC->PAL conversion script. I decided to try switching back to using smoothdeinterlace to try to track down some 'jitter' problems. I have used smoothdeinterlace for a long time with AVS 2.5.5 without any problems.

So I copied the avisynth.dll from a 2.5.5. install and smoothdeinterlace works ok. This seems to be a problem only when using 2.5.6

Has anyone seen this problem, and does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to work around it?

Note,
I read the externalplugins.htm which came with AVS 2.5.6 and smoothdeinterlacer is not mentioned in the list of suggested deinterlacers, perhaps this is no longer recommended/supported?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Wilbert]

Has anyone seen this problem, and does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to work around it?
Apperently Weave is called within the plugin itself. We changed it a bit in v2.5.6, such that you can only throw field-based material to it. This should be trivial to correct, but it has to wait till tonight.

[kevinm]

thanks Wilbert,

in the meantime I will read up on the newer deinterlacers, perhaps there is a better one I should be using.

In the past I have tried:

DGBob
KernelDeint
TomsMoComp

With AVS 2.5.5 I ended up going back to smoothDeinterlacer, perhaps I need to revisit those other filters, also maybe there is some newer, better one I could use. (suggestions welcome)


BTW my source is NTSC DV camcorder footage (scenes with lots of tricky motion to cope with), destination PAL DVD.

Kevin

[scharfis_brain]

so you are trying to do a standards conversion?

for this purpose, you may want to to try if processing time doesn't matters
mvbob() and mvfps()

using both, you'll achieve currently the best image quality (mvbob) and motion smoothness (mvfps).
(related to AVISynth filters, but I don't know of other free software, that can do this)

[kevinm]

thanks, but 'jitter/stutter' problems when using MvBob was why I went back to try using smoothdeinterlance. I have not used MvBob in conjunction with mvfps though.

I checked my settings for top/bottom frame for the input and output but can't find anything wrong. I am using bff for the source (DV) and tff for the output (DVD).

Since I don't have a PAL DVD player at the moment I am setting the frame rate for input and output the same so I can write to NTSC DVD and watch on my standalone player. Since I don't have a standalone PAL DVD player I couldn't think of any other way to evaluate the quality of the deinterlacing.

I am doing something like:

Input = AVISource("c:\kevin\dvd_temp\tape8_ntsc_1_1.avi") # Type2
vfields = Input.mvbob().assumebff().assumeframebased()
vfields.SelectEvery(4, 0, 3)
vlace = vfields.SeparateFields()
vout = vlace.Weave()
vout = ConvertToRGB24(vout) # needed for TMPGEnc
return(vout)

I am not sure, but maybe I should skip the weave step and write as progressive to the DVD. My standalone player should be able to play progressive and convert to interlaced inside before sending to my regular (SD) TV, right?

Kevin

[kevinm]

Sorry, I made an error, I think I have the seperateFields before the SelectEvery ..

(I dont have access to the machine which the script resides on, I was working from memory,

Kevin

[kevinm]

sharfis-brain,
I have read up on the discussions about mvbob, it seems there has been a lot of changes since I last tried it, including conversion to yv12 before mvanalyse if the input is yuy2.

I have installed the rar archive you posted, this is an excellent way of distributing this sort of stuff and making sure everyone is running the correct versions of the various filters it relies on.

Kevin

[scharfis_brain]

your script above is uhm, nonsense.

1) it isn't set up correctly
2) if it would have been set up 'correctly', it would do a NOP (Nulltransform) which only wastes CPU-Cycles but does nothing with your image.

the correct usage for a NTSC -> PAL conversion of NTSC-DV-AVI would be this:

avisource("NTSC-DV.AVI")
assumebff()
#convertbacktoyuy2() #un-comment, if needed
reinterpolate411()
mvbob()
bicubicresize(width,576)
converttoyv12()
mvfps(50)
converttoyuy2()
assume?ff() # set the ? according to your wished output fieldorder
separatefields().selectevery(4,0,3).weave()

[Wilbert]

Sorry, i'm unable to do it. If someone else wants to give it a try, the source can be downloaded here:

http://biphome.spray.se/gunnart/video/AVSPorts/SmoothDeinterlacer/

Beaware, it's for avs v2.0 though.

[kevinm]

sharfis-brain,
thanks for the script, it seems I got some things out of order when I tried to remember the script I have been using. In hindsight I should have waited till I got home, sorry.

Note, I did have the reinterpolate411 but I didn't mention it as I didn't think it was relevent to this discussion at the time. I also have convolution3D but since my source is not very noisy it may be overkill. Anyway, it is very helpful of you to give me the full script, thanks!

BTW I did load your NTSC>PAL conversion scripts for mvbob from the .rar file, all the filters loaded just fine but I was unable to do the encoding as I only have the trial version of TMPGEnc and the trial period has run out. At home I have the full version so I will give it a try.

Wilbert,
since sharfis-brain tells me that mvbob is really the superior approach, please dont worry about fixing avs 2.5.6 for smoothdeinterlacer on my behalf. Sorry for the distraction, I thought that I absolutely needed to use smoothdeinterlacer (having given up on mvbob previousy). Now I know I should perservere with mvbob; the problems with smoothdeinterlacer have probably done me a favour,

Kevin

[kevinm]

sharfis-brain,

"2) if it would have been set up 'correctly', it would do a NOP (Nulltransform) which only wastes CPU-Cycles but does nothing with your image."

I know it sounds strange but I really do need to find a way of assessing the output from mvbob, before I burn the PAL disk and send to my family across the Atlantic.

Previously I have run NTSC->PAL scripts and viewed the result on my PC using WinDVD and it looks fine, only to hear people tell me that when played on standalone PAL players that the motion is stuttered. Since I am in a NTSC country and don't have a standalone PAL player can you suggest how I should view the result of the conversion?

I have been asking around to try to obtain a standalone PAL DVD player but so far haven't had any luck. (I do have a multi-standard TV so I can display PAL, but I need the player).

I would like to just trust your experience, run the script, burn the disk but it might be a couple of weeks before I get to hear what the results were like. I worry that I will need to tweak the settings for mvbob to reduce some of the motion artifacts but without a way viewing the results and judging is the 'stuttering' has gone I am kind of stuck. I guess that I could look for the motion artifacts using WinDVD but would not be able to judge if the stuttering has gone. I hope this makes sense,

thanks,

Kevin

[scharfis_brain]

use Media player Classic for previewing your MPEgs

Set the Deinterlacing method of the internal MPEG Decoder to "bob" and a refreshrate of 100Hz for PAL and 120 (or 60) Hz for NTSC video.

if you set both:
- the output fieldorder of the script (assume?ff)
and
- the rendering fieldorder of your encoder
identical, nothing will be juddery.

[kevinm]

sharfis-brain,
thanks for the suggestion for previewing the output.

I just wanted to check:

"..and a refreshrate of 100Hz for PAL and 120 (or 60) Hz for NTSC video."

this is the refresh rate which I have to set my monitor to, right?

Kevin

[scharfis_brain]

yes, it is.

If you own a LCD you have a big problem viewing PAL footage without jerkyness.

[kevinm]

sharfis_brain,

I have a CRT monitor, I can set 100hz but only at 800x600, I set the Media Player Classic to BOB.

However I have a problem with Media Player Classic 6.4.8.4 crashing when I try to play the clip. I see the same problem on both my machine at work (W2000) and my machine at home (XP).

The clip plays perfectly ok in WinDVD4 and PowerDVD5

I have tried adding filters, tried adding various MPEG2 decoders but still it crashes. Sometimes the microsoft error info says it is a bicubic resize problem, other times it refers to some 'hang' problem.

Have you seen this before? I have not used Media Player Classic before, it is known for being unstable like this?

I will go away and research problems with MP classic, but if you have any suggestions please let me know,

thanks,

Kevin

[scharfis_brain]

try another renderer in the output options.
such as overlay and vmr.

maybe your graphics drivers and/or DirectX are broken

[Didée]

Sometimes the microsoft error info says it is a bicubic resize problem,
Search your hard drive(s) for a DirectShow-filter "bicubic_resizer.ax". In case you find it, unregister (regsvr32 /u "path/to/bicubic_resizer.ax") and delete it.

[kevinm]

Didee,
thanks for the suggestion, I tried it on my W2000 machine at work and it fixed it!

Hopefully removing that .ax file will fix it for my XP machine at home too.

sharfis_brain,
tonight I will try your technique for viewing the PAL mpeg as you suggested, I should be able to preview the PAL as my monitor goes up to 100hz refresh, but I cant use your technique to preview NTSC as it wont go up to 120hz. Previewing NTSC isn't really a problem though as I usually go the whole way and burn a disk and preview it on my NTSC standaline player.

Kevin