Can I loop video without reencoding?

[oddwunn]

Here's the scoop - I am trying to create a DVD test disc using patterns from DVE. Why? Because DVE's navigation is cumbersome and time consuming and I need to use the same patterns over and over again with quick access.

When I rip the patterns that I want by using DVDShrink, I end up with a bunch of 15 frame .VOBs, but whatever DVE did to loop the patterns is now gone, so each pattern just plays for 1/2 second and then moves to the next one. I figured out how to turn them into infinte "stills" by researching here, but I would prefer to create an infinite loop to insure that my renderer of choice is actually doing the rendering (VMR 9 in my case).

The problem with reencoding is that slight changes to the color levels takes place and that is unacceptable for calibration patterns. I figure that if I can just modify the .IFOs to create an endless loop on each pattern, and then arranging the patterns so that they are chapters within a single title, then I can just use the "next" or "previous" button to move from pattern to pattern, using only the patterns I need and in the order I need them and that way I can avoid the issues with reencoding.

Is this possible, or is there another (better) way to get this done?

[r0lZ]

You may use a cell command for each chapter. Just go back to the beginning of the chapter. Note that you will have a little pause when the loop back will occur.

To do that, with PgcEdit:
Double click on your title PGC to open the PGC Editor.
In the cells list, change the type flags to remove the 'seamless joint' flag.
Change the cell command number from 0 to the same number as your chapter (ie 1, 2, 3...)
Accept.
In the command editor, add a cell command. The cell command 1 will be for chapter 1, so enter this command:
[30 05 00 01 00 01 00 00] 1 (JumpVTS_PTT) Jump to TTN 1, Chapter 1
Duplicate this command, one for each chapter, and edit the chapter number:
[30 05 00 02 00 01 00 00] 1 (JumpVTS_PTT) Jump to TTN 1, Chapter 2
Etc...
Save and test.

[2COOL]

then arranging the patterns so that they are chapters within a single titleAssuming that your patterns don't have different aspect ratios, audio, and subs, you can combine them with VobEdit, Joining different VOBs (Clips) to one DVD-R (http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/joinclip.html) and then creating new IFOs (http://ifoedit.wh.fr0zen.com/createifo094.html) with IfoEdit. Don't forget to click on "Get VTS Sectors" button after creating new IFOs.

then I can just use the "next" or "previous" button to move from pattern to pattern, using only the patterns I need and in the order I need them and that way I can avoid the issues with reencoding.Since they are all in chapters in a single Title, you need to create a cell command for each. It's best to do it in PgcEdit. Open up your file in PgcEdit. Select Title 1 PGC. In its command table, go to its Cell command area.

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/9578/screenhunter0509ng.gif (http://imageshack.us)

We are going to add our first cell command so right click on "*****cell commands" label and select "Add After".

You will have a new cell command 1 with a NOP command.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7811/screenhunter0519jw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

We will be using this cell command for your first cell so in order for us to loop cell1/chap1, we edit to NOP command. Double click on NOP command to get your command editor.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7213/screenhunter0524jl.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Go to Alphabetically > LinkCN. Select.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3448/screenhunter0531nc.gif (http://imageshack.us)

We acutally don't need to change the "Jump to Cell" value here as this cell command will be for Cell 1. I'll explain later on changing this values for the cell 2, cell 3, etc.

Click OK to set and now, you should have this for a cell command 1.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8359/screenhunter0549gq.gif (http://imageshack.us)

To save time on adding more cell commands and we will be using the LinkCN command for all, we'll add more cell commands according to how many cells you have. If you are unsure on how many cells your Title has, just look top right.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8017/screenhunter0568hn.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Select Cell command 1 and execute a Ctrl+D (duplicate) You will have a new cell command 2 with a duplicated LinkCN. Repeat Ctrl+D until you have your desired amount of cells.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/1184/screenhunter0572es.gif (http://imageshack.us)

We want our commands to look like this.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9775/screenhunter0580dw.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Starting with Cell command 2, double-click on it to get your command editor again. Change "Jump to Cell" value to 2. OK to set. Repeat for next cell command with setting next consecutive value.

When you are done, double click on your Title 1 PGC to bring up your PgcEditor. In the bottom half, you see a Cell Cmd column.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4834/screenhunter0595nb.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Change all according to this.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5216/screenhunter0609zs.gif (http://imageshack.us)

When done, OK to set and then save your DVD.

If you want to have your DVD in a endless loop, go to Post command of Title one and add this command.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/96/screenhunter0615gy.gif (http://imageshack.us)

This should be about it. Let me know how it works if you decide to pursue this guide. ;) If you want to understand about cell commands, read here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=370485#post370485).

[r0lZ]

2COOL, you're incredible! What a nice guide!

However, you forgot to say thet the seamless joint flag must be turned off for each cell. Or the cell command will be ignored on some players.

@oddwunn: you have to click on the Type Flags buttons (except the first one), and disable the seamless joint checknox.

[2COOL]

2COOL, you're incredible! What a nice guide!Thanks for the compliment. ;)

However, you forgot to say thet the seamless joint flag must be turned off for each cell. hmmm....wuoldn't that be set off after using VobEdit to join VOBs and IfoEdit for creating new IFOs?

[EDIT]I opened a ripped DVD to work with showing cell commands examples. So hence the seamless joint Type Flags as shown.

Anyways, it's still a good recommedation to double-check the Type Flags and change them accordingly.

[oddwunn]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the help!

Unfortunately, I must have gotten something wrong, as it is not working.

I started by using the "joining clips" function from VOBEdit to create a single PGC with 20 chapters.
Then I went to the cell command area and added the 20 cell commands. My commands read like this:

1 LinkCN Cell 1
2 LinkCN Cell 2
3 LinkCN Cell 3
.
.
.
20 LinkCN Cell 20.

I changed the cell commands according to 2Cool's guide so that they agreed with the chapter numbers.

That didn't work, so then I went back and changed the "type flags" and unchecked "seamless Joint" on all chapters. This gave me a value of "2" for each chapter. There is still a check in the "STC (SCR) discontinuity" box. Should I uncheck all of those boxes as well?

[oddwunn]

A few other differences I noted:

My cell commands do not display any hex codes like in 2Cool's example:

His - [20 07 00 00 00 00 00 01] 1 LinkCN Cell 1
Mine - 1 LinkCN Cell 1

2Cool's VOB/Cell ID numbers look like this:

1/1
1/2
1/3
1/4

while mine look like this:

1/1
2/1
3/1
4/1

Why are my VOB/Cell ID numbers reversed?

[r0lZ]

The differences in your DVD are harmless.
The STC discontinuity must be left as it is.
The VOB/Cell IDs are just a matter of identifying the VOB cells. All couples must be different, and it's the case in your DVD.

Have you changed the cell command numbers in the cell table as well? If you forgot this part, the loop cannot occur. Double check that point (near the end of 2COOL's guide), and test again.

[Taelon]

A few other differences I noted:

My cell commands do not display any hex codes like in 2Cool's example:

His - [20 07 00 00 00 00 00 01] 1 LinkCN Cell 1
Mine - 1 LinkCN Cell 1 If you want to see the Hex codes, go to Options ->Command Editor ->Include [hex code] in main listbox

Why are my VOB/Cell ID numbers reversed? I'm not sure but it sounds to me like you didn't combine the VOB's as 2Cool suggested at the start of his post?

[oddwunn]

Have you changed the cell command numbers in the cell table as well? If you forgot this part, the loop cannot occur. Double check that point (near the end of 2COOL's guide), and test again.

Yup, I had done that the first time. I just checked again and and they are correct.

If you want to see the Hex codes, go to Options ->Command Editor ->Include [hex code] in main listbox

Great, thanks. That fixed it.

I'm not sure but it sounds to me like you didn't combine the VOB's as 2Cool suggested at the start of his post?

Yes, I combined VOBs using 2Cool's method. Before combining them, they all had the same VOB/C ID numbers (1/1) and they were renumbered when VOBEdit combined them.

[oddwunn]

Ah, I found it! In the original window that opened, on the left hand side, there were two items listed:

VMG, First-Play PGC
VTST1,1 TTN 1 (0:15) Title 1

Somehow I managed to screw up and added the 20 commands to the First-Play PGC instead of Title 1...oops!

To correct it I just had to cut the commands and then paste them in the correct place. 2Cool's guide was correct...I just don't know how to follow directions!

I would add the part about removing the seamless joint to 2 Cool's guide, though, as it needed to be done.

Thanks, guys, now it works perfectly, and makes for a much better test disc than DVE's own test disc. You guys rock!!

[oddwunn]

Now I'm going to really push my luck...:)

Can anyone suggest a program that will allow me to create a menu for this new DVD, once again, WITHOUT RE-ENCODING?

Eventually I would like to organize a disc full of these patterns, but reorganized with a SENSIBLE menu structure. You know, something like:

Main menu:
___1. Grayscale patterns
___2. Sharpness patterns
___3. Automated calibration patterns
___4. Color patterns

You get the idea.

Oh, and BTW, I checked the color levels in the looping patterns and am very happy to report that there are no changes in levels. The experiment worked!

[r0lZ]

You can use DVD-Lab to author a menu. But DVD-Lab is not free.
Of course, there are many programs able to create sinple or complex menus, but I think DVD-Lab is the best.

It is possible to import a title VOB directly in DVD-Lab, even without demuxing it, but you will need to redo the loop to chapter stuff.
Another way is to author the menu in DVD-Lab, and import it in your original DVD with PgcEdit. But you will need to fix the button and menu PGC commands yourself, with PgcEdit. That's not easy for a beginner.

[mic]

You can use DVD-Lab to author a menu. But DVD-Lab is not free.
Of course, there are many programs able to create sinple or complex menus, but I think DVD-Lab is the best...
Stupid question most likely, but if using DVDLab or similar, why not add ripped m2v as menu background?

Create main menu, add menus as needed setting using return button on remote?