Few Newbie Questions

[nymph]

I have a Panasonic PV-GS120 and my goal is to transfer and convert my DV footage to DVD-R.

I bought a really cheap PCI Firewire card >Link< (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16815104226) and this Belkin Firewire cable >Link< (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16812107217). I think I read somewhere that said the kind of card you get doesnt matter, but the cable does (as far as capture quality). Is this true? If so, why do some firewire cards have more capacitors and resistors on them than others (both being 3 port cards with the same chipset)?

The software I use to transfer my DV to PC is Pinnacle Studio 9.0. Does the software used to transfer the DV from camcorder to PC have any effect on quality?

As far as encoders go, I have tried: CCE 2.67, Tmpgenc 3.0 Xpress, ProCoder 2.0, and MainConcept 1.4.2. It seemes like Procoder and CCE gave me the best results at defualt, with me not messing around with filters or anything. However, I read the sticky here on DV-DVD, and I am going to try to use an Avisynth script with CCE.

Is my DV footage I get off my camcorder interlaced? Should I encode it as such or in progressive? Also, is the script for Avisynth that is in the DV-DVD guide a general good script to use?

Thank you for any help as I am so new to this and basically do not know much about this and even less with regards to filters, color settings, etc...

nYmph

[ou8thisSN]

i doubt the firewire cable matters, if at all. The software should have no effect on quality either. as mentioned in another thread, your first "loss" comes when the codec in the camera encodes the DV AVI stream, after that the next loss, if at all comes at the codec that converts DVI avi back into MPEG2... ie CCE procoder, etc. I wouldnt worry about it too much, for our purposes its essentially lossless.

if yours isnt like a superexpensive pro camcorder, its most likely interlaced. I encode everything as interlaced, and then let my TV convert it to progressive. I use the script in the guide, its fine really. I am working on a guide myself, but i didnt change the original script they had. Some have suggested using PeachSmoother instead of Convolution3d.

[nymph]

How do I run the avisynth script through CCE? I am right clicking the CCE box and selecting add, then browsing to my script and hitting encode. Then CCE actually encodes the script and closes? I am confused. Help...

[ou8thisSN]

This is my default script, pretend this is your script:

aviSource("D:\A_DV_to_DVD_Files\Justin_wedding\Justin_wedding_Vdub.avi")
Letterbox(64,64)
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()



thats all you need to put in there...
just change where it says D:\..... to whatever directory path you left your movie file in.

make sure you have those filters copied into the plug-ins directory (ReInterpolate411 and Convolution3d). ReInterpolate can be found here:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/trbarry/ReInterpolate411.zip

and Convolution3d is here:

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/convolution3d_25_dll_20030422.zip



Letterbox(64, 64) just converts 4:3 format of the source video into 16:9 letterbox format. Leave that in or take that out as you want. If you leave it in, leave CCE as 4:3. Encode in CCE as Interlaced...



or, this script was suggested by a respected member here:

aviSource("D:\A_DV_to_DVD_Files\Justin_wedding\Justin_wedding_Vdub.avi")
Letterbox(64,64)
ReInterpolate411()
Peach()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()



This uses ReInterpolate and the PeachSmoother filter.
PeachSmoother can be found here:

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/peachsmoother_25_dll_20030801.zip

hope that helps.

[lilhobo]

thats nice...if u wanna do a flash presentation, join here and i convert your powerpoint presentation to flash

http://impressionz.australian.at/



but my question is if i have an avi with soound, how do i make it useable in cce?

[nymph]

This is my default script, pretend this is your script:

aviSource("D:\A_DV_to_DVD_Files\Justin_wedding\Justin_wedding_Vdub.avi")
Letterbox(64,64)
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()



thats all you need to put in there...
just change where it says D:\..... to whatever directory path you left your movie file in.

make sure you have those filters copied into the plug-ins directory (ReInterpolate411 and Convolution3d). ReInterpolate can be found here:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/trbarry/ReInterpolate411.zip

and Convolution3d is here:

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/convolution3d_25_dll_20030422.zip



Letterbox(64, 64) just converts 4:3 format of the source video into 16:9 letterbox format. Leave that in or take that out as you want. If you leave it in, leave CCE as 4:3. Encode in CCE as Interlaced...



or, this script was suggested by a respected member here:

aviSource("D:\A_DV_to_DVD_Files\Justin_wedding\Justin_wedding_Vdub.avi")
Letterbox(64,64)
ReInterpolate411()
Peach()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()



This uses ReInterpolate and the PeachSmoother filter.
PeachSmoother can be found here:

http://www.avisynth.org/warpenterprises/files/peachsmoother_25_dll_20030801.zip

hope that helps.

I appreciate the script, but this is still not working for me. Let me make sure I am doing this right. Here are the steps I'm doing:

1. Open a blank notepad doc and paste in this script:

aviSource("c:\DV_Footage\Video 1.avi")
Letterbox(64,64)
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()

2. Save the notepad file as 'test.avs'
3. Open CCE and then right click in the CCE empty box and select add.
4. Browse to the 'test.avs' file I just created and selct it. It then places it in the CCE box.
5. I hit Encode.

After that it actually encodes the avs file itself rather then my avi file that the avs script is pointing to, and outputs it to my selected output directory. I have all the plug-ins copied into the avisynth plug-ins folder. What am I doing wrong?

Thank you for your help.

[ou8thisSN]

well i dont really understand what you're asking but what CCE will do is encode an .m2v file from the original .avi file. I dont think it encodes a .avs file. The .avs file is just something that prepares your .avi file for CCE to read/understand and uses a couple of filters to make it look better. Thats what its job is. CCE is the actual encoder that creates a complaint DVD mpeg-2 file.

So, go into CCE, after you load the .avs file, then click on settings, and set the name of the output file. there should be a dialogue box that says where CCE will output the Video files.

What happens when you push the Encode button? does CCE do anything?

Are you getting any errors?

Try loading the .avs file in VirtualDub. If the .avs file loads correctly, then you will see no error pop-up windows and you will see the first frame of your video file in the work area.


if you're still confused, post a screenshot of your problem. select the window thats active and push Alt + PrntScrn. that'll copy an image to your clipboard...

[nymph]

well i dont really understand what you're asking but what CCE will do is encode an .m2v file from the original .avi file. I dont think it encodes a .avs file. The .avs file is just something that prepares your .avi file for CCE to read/understand and uses a couple of filters to make it look better. Thats what its job is. CCE is the actual encoder that creates a complaint DVD mpeg-2 file.

That's my problem. It is encoding my .avs file and not my .avi file.

My question is how exactly do I "load" the .avs file into CCE? What are the exact steps to use my .avs file to "prepare" my .avi file for CCE to encode?

Here is a Pic (http://www.toplinepc.com/cce.htm)

In that pic shows my avs file in CCE after I 'add' it. Then I hit encode. Then it encodes my .avs file and outputs it (the avs file and NOT my .avi file), to my output directory. My .avi file is never touched.

[ou8thisSN]

its not supposed to touch your .avi file. that always remains. it creates a NEW .VAF file and a .M2V file. Did it create those??? it should have. thats what CCE does.

Those are the files you need to author an mpeg2 dvd.... the .avi file remains untouched, it does not change. get it?


when you hit encode, doesnt a new window pop up that says all kinds of stuff about how its encoding, how long it will take, etc...?

[nymph]

its not supposed to touch your .avi file. that always remains. it creates a NEW .VAF file and a .M2V file. Did it create those??? it should have. thats what CCE does.

Those are the files you need to author an mpeg2 dvd.... the .avi file remains untouched, it does not change. get it?


when you hit encode, doesnt a new window pop up that says all kinds of stuff about how its encoding, how long it will take, etc...?

It does exactly what your saying, but the problem is that the files it creates are only like 2000k each and it takes 3 seconds and then CCE closes.

Now, if I were to 'add' my actual .avi file into CCE and not use the .avs script, then it takes like 3 hours and it encodes my .avi to .mpeg2 with no problem. But thats not useing the avisynth script.

I must be doing somthing wrong, or missing a step somewhere???..

[fccHandler]

From what you've posted, it looks like there is an error in your .avs script which is causing Avisynth to fail. I think if you play your encoded .m2v you'll discover that it actually contains the error message from Avisynth (instead of your video). Alternatively you can open the faulty .avs in VirtualDub to see what the error is.

[ou8thisSN]

i agree, you have to get virtualdub, and load your .avs file into it, as I suggested before. if it loads fine, you'll see the first frame of your video. if not you will get an error, and it will say which line of the avs script the error is in. post that error here.

EDIT: that 240 frame, 10:min video should have been your first indication that CCE isnt working right. if it take 3 hours to encode, i'm assuming your video file is at least 30 minutes. Just by guessing, it sounds like CCE cant open your video file. do you have the Panasonic DV codec installed?

if you dont have that, then AviSource wont work, and CCE might give you that error.

http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/install_panvfwdv.htm

install that codec, then you can use the AviSource command,

Alternatively, replace AviSource with DirectShowSource. That uses the resident microsoft drivers to access your avi file. I think that might be the problem...

[trolltuning]

When you save your avs in notepad did you use save as and change the setting to all files so that you actually get
whatever.avs instead of whatever.avs.txt?

Oops ignore this. I just looked at your gif and this was not your problem. As stated above its most likely a script error or possibly a missing codec.

[nymph]

i agree, you have to get virtualdub, and load your .avs file into it, as I suggested before. if it loads fine, you'll see the first frame of your video. if not you will get an error, and it will say which line of the avs script the error is in. post that error here.

EDIT: that 240 frame, 10:min video should have been your first indication that CCE isnt working right. if it take 3 hours to encode, i'm assuming your video file is at least 30 minutes. Just by guessing, it sounds like CCE cant open your video file. do you have the Panasonic DV codec installed?

if you dont have that, then AviSource wont work, and CCE might give you that error.

http://users.tpg.com.au/mtam/install_panvfwdv.htm

install that codec, then you can use the AviSource command,

Alternatively, replace AviSource with DirectShowSource. That uses the resident microsoft drivers to access your avi file. I think that might be the problem...

CCE can open my video file. I can encode it without using the avisynth script without a problem. It's when I use the avisynth scrprit that I run into the problems. The 3 hours to encode is when I use CCE to encode my .avi without using the avisynth script, and it works fine.

I have DVD rebuilder and I re-encode DVD movies all the time using DVD-RB using avisynth and CCE. If that works fine, could it still be a problem with either of the programs?

I also tried opening the small .mpv output file that I get when I use the avs script and WMP could not open it, so I could not see an error.

I will try when I get home from work toi use the other before mentioned programs to open it though.



EDIT: ou8thisSN, I tried what you said about replacing the DirectShowSource, and that was it!! Thank you very much for the help! And also for all the others for your help as well. I very much appreciate it!

nYmph

[trolltuning]

Have you tried with the codec that was recommended to you? I've always felt that its preferable to use Avisource to DirectShowSource if you have the option. (Better seeking when previewing and less chance of sync problems-although this may not be the problem it used to be).

[ou8thisSN]

good job, i also agree with trolltuning, i'd try and get AviSource to work... no reason it shouldnt, if you have the Panasonic DV codec installed, look at my above post to see where to download and install it. good luck

[bb]

I'd like to add that although using a VfW codec has certain advantages, the Microsoft DirectShow filter is installed by default on each Windows system. Regarding the Panasonic DV codec, you should be aware of the fact that it supports RGB only, which increases processing time and might be a quality issue for perfectionists.

bb

[nymph]

I actually did install the panasonic codec and used the avisource command line. I noticed alot shakiness to the final output though, as well as the colors are very flat. I am going to try it with the directshowsource. All I have to do is just change the first line in my avisynth script to from avisource to directshowsource correct?

Also, can DGDecode be used with DV? I know it's used with DVD-RB when I encode my DVD's, so I am wondering if I can use it for this application as well?

BTW, would the Panasonic codec always be used now as default since I installed it? How would I go about removing it completely from my system?

[bb]

I actually did install the panasonic codec and used the avisource command line. I noticed alot shakiness to the final output though, as well as the colors are very flat. I am going to try it with the directshowsource. All I have to do is just change the first line in my avisynth script to from avisource to directshowsource correct?Note that DirectShowSource has an "fps" parameter which should be set, like "DirectShowSource("C:\DV\MyFilm.avi", 25)".
Also, can DGDecode be used with DV? I know it's used with DVD-RB when I encode my DVD's, so I am wondering if I can use it for this application as well?No, DGDecode is not for DV.
BTW, would the Panasonic codec always be used now as default since I installed it? How would I go about removing it completely from my system?Yes, if your AVI's fourCC is the standard "DVSD" (see FAQ). Canopus DV codecs use a different fourCC, though.

bb

[nymph]

Thank you for the information bb. I have uninstalled the panasonic codec via the registry editor. I did not set the fps before and will try that today to see if I like the results better.

It seems so far that for me, Pro-coder is giving me the best results the fastest with little tweaking.


EDIT: I am using this script:

DirectShowSource("C:\DV\MyFilm.avi", 30)
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
Peach()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()


And when I goto add the script to CCE it says the 854x56 is not supported. Should I use a difefrent number than 30 for FPS? I have tried 25 as well and got the same error.

nYmph

[ou8thisSN]

if its NTSC, might need to be 29.97

[bb]

[...]
And when I goto add the script to CCE it says the 854x56 is not supported. Should I use a difefrent number than 30 for FPS? I have tried 25 as well and got the same error.Your script created an error. Open the AVS file in VirtualDub or in Windows Media Player to see the error message.

bb

[nymph]

OK, the error says:

Parse error: string missing closing quotation mark
c:\Program Files\Avisynth 2.5\Examples\test2.avs, line 1, column 50

Here is what my script is:

DirectShowSource("c:\DV_Footage\video2.avi",29.97)"
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
Peach()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()

nYmph

[ou8thisSN]

well, you have 3 quotation marks, put the last one inside the parenthesis, and take out the one after .avi.

[bb]

Wrong!

The first line should read like this:
DirectShowSource("c:\DV_Footage\video2.avi",29.97)

bb

[nymph]

OK,

Here is my script now:

DirectShowSource("c:\DV_Footage\video2.avi", 29.97)
SeparateFields()
ConverttoYUY2()
ReInterpolate411()
PeachSmoother()
odd=SelectOdd.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
evn=SelectEven.Convolution3D(1, 6, 10, 6, 8, 2.8, 0)
Interleave(evn,odd)
Weave()
DoubleWeave.SelectOdd()

It worked....somewhat. The picture quality is very nice when the camera is stationary. However when there is camera movement the transition is horribly shaky and blurred. Also the audio is not in sync and is like slow motion. Is there some other command i am missing to prevent the shakiness?

Thank you all for your help!!!

[trolltuning]

I had footage I asked a bystander to take of me and someone else. He did not hold the camera still and the picture had a slight shake. I was able to remove this 100%by using the DePan plug-in, cropping and resizing.
Was your camera panning during the bad spots or just not held still?

[nymph]

It was panning (That's a better word for my problem). While the camera pans to different objects/areas is when the shakiness and blur come into play. When the camera is stationary and recording moving objects/people it is fine also. Just when panning around.

I do not believe the shakiness is due to a shaky hand because I can view the footage directly from the camcorder itself to the TV with perfection. Also, when I encode the footage using procoder or tmpgenc I do not have this problem.

nYmph

[trolltuning]

I never use Convolution filters because I shoot people dancing and I've never found a setting that does anything useful and doesn't blur slightly with complex motion. Try commenting out (place a # at the start of each line)everything after PeachSmoother() and report on the result.

[nymph]

OK, I will try that. When you say comment out everything after peachsmoother, that includes the interleave, weave, and double weave in addition to the convolution commands?

I will post back results. Thanks...

[trolltuning]

OK, I will try that. When you say comment out everything after peachsmoother, that includes the interleave, weave, and double weave in addition to the convolution commands?

I will post back results. Thanks...

Yes ;)
Also comment out SeparateFields()
and replace ConvertToYUY2()
with
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

[nymph]

Ahhh, OK. Will try this shortly.

[nymph]

OK,

The panning shakiness got much better..., but it still is noticable, and after about 1 minute, hard on the eyes. Is there some other command line I should be entering or perhaps another filter??


Also, I noticed in the CCE GUI (under the video tab and Quant matrices), that there is a drop down menu box that has the selections of "Standard, MPEG Standard, Smooth CG, Very Smooth (low bitrate), etc... I have tried this on standard and standard mpeg so far. What should I have this set at?

nYmph

[trolltuning]

For now I would set them on standard then read all the CCE pdf manual and the FAQ's and stickys in the CCE forum.
The next thing I would remove from the script is the Peachsmoother as in its help file it does mention that it will blur things if the motion is too high like in an auto race.

[nymph]

For now I would set them on standard then read all the CCE pdf manual and the FAQ's and stickys in the CCE forum.
The next thing I would remove from the script is the Peachsmoother as in its help file it does mention that it will blur things if the motion is too high like in an auto race.

OK, I will try that when I get home today. Although, the motion is nothing near auto race type footage. It's just family video, like footage in the home or at a BBQ. An example of my problem is I am filming my baby lying on the bed. No problem there. Then my wife walks in the room and as soon as I turn to film her the footage from me going from my baby to my wife is shaky and blurred. Once I stop moving the camera and stay directly on my wife it's fine. Even with her moving and me holding the camera still it's fine. It's once I move that camera at all when everything starts falling apart.

I will still remove peach however, and see if that does make a difference.

Will post the results after. Thanks!

nYmph

[nymph]

:thanks: The footage is better, and the noticable shakiness that remains does not show up when I watch the DVD I create on my TV. It's only on my CRT. So, that's OK.

Basically now it's just a matter of deciding if CCE is better with DV than ProCoder. When I was using peachsmoother, I only put in this command:

peachsmoother()

But, shouldn't I have Values in between the (), or is that just a default value?

Thanks again for everyones help! :thanks:

nYmph

[trolltuning]

Its a default value. The html file that came with the download explains the parameters but doesn't have examples. If you have trouble with that you should post in the Avisynth forum.

[nymph]

Will do.

nYmph

[pluto32]

nymph: Could you post your CCE settings?