Movies are getting worse these days. [Archive]

Revgen

16th August 2005, 17:56

This summer has so far not been a good one for the movie industry. Theater attendance is lower than in previous years. However, the industry's favorite culprit - piracy - does not seem to be the reason. Both Reuters (see link before) as well as Harris poll cite different reasons for the slump: quality, as well as competition from DVD and other alternative products like video games are mostly to be blamed.

I'm not surprised. I haven't seen a movie in a theater all summer. But I don't agree with the poll. Video games and DVD's have been around for awhile now.

Here IMHO are the real reasons:

1)The tickets are are expensive. Some places in my area are charging $10 for admission.

2)The theater owners even run advertisements (Soda ads, etc.) before they show the movie. It makes me wonder what the hell I'm paying for.

3)The movies also suck. The acting is so bad that you can tell it by watching the trailers. Dukes of Hazzard is the first that comes to my mind.

4)And worst of all, they are showing remakes of old movies. And they are usually terrible remakes too. Where is the originality? I'm just not willing to pay 8-10 bucks to see a movie that isn't fresh and original. I'm much better off renting from Netflix.

theReal

16th August 2005, 18:44

1)The tickets are are expensive. Some places in my area are charging $10 for admission.

2)The theater owners even run advertisements (Soda ads, etc.) before they show the movie. It makes me wonder what the hell I'm paying for.

10$ still seems a little less than the 8 EUR you sometimes pay here.
Theaters here also play a lot of commercials (almost half an hour sometimes...)

The last two original movies I've seen in the movie theater were "A Very Long Engagement" by Jean-Pierre Jeunet and "The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou" by Wes Anderson.
Other than that I'd rather rent a movie (there are so many good movies on DVD that I haven't seen yet, why should I spent more money and watch the newest uninteresting flick just because it's new?)

Doom9

16th August 2005, 18:49

Video games and DVD's have been around for awhile now. It always depends on how much you buy. I used to buy more games until I entered college.. afterwards I simply didn't have enough time to play that many games anymore (plus there was my site). The same thing essentially happened to music, instead of buying CDs I started buying DVDs. Today, I get my doses of music listening to online radio stations and I still buy very few CDs and many DVDs.

Revgen

16th August 2005, 19:13

10$ still seems a little less than the 8 EUR you sometimes pay here.

According to this (http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi) currency converter, it's a little bit less. 8 euros equals about $9.88.

Which is still too much.

Theaters here also play a lot of commercials (almost half an hour sometimes...)

WHOA! :eek: Thats ridiculous. They usually only last about 15 min. over here.

smiller667

16th August 2005, 19:14

Doom9

16th August 2005, 19:29

consider yourself lucky with 8€.. there are countries where you only get to see a movie for that amount on low price night and where for the price of two tickets you can get the DVD and some pocket change.

theReal

16th August 2005, 20:04

According to this currency converter, it's a little bit less. 8 euros equals about $9.88. Whooops, I wasn't aware the Euro is so low (thought i'td be something like 12$...). Damn you, Euro, where have you been going!?! :sly:

consider yourself lucky with 8€.. there are countries where you only get to see a movie for that amount on low price night and where for the price of two tickets you can get the DVD and some pocket change.Are you talking about Japan? A friend told me he paid something like 20 Euro for the movie theater in Tokyo recently... however everything else was very expensive as well so I guess it fits in the overall pricing scheme?

I guess owners might have to rely on selling food, running ads etc. They already do that a lot - some popcorn and a medium coke usually cost 8 Euro as well ;)

I know one movie theater in Nuremberg, Germany where they don't hire people to check your tickets at the entrance. You can just go in and watch the movie for free (they can control the seats via weight sensors and send somebody in when there's somebody on a seat that wasn't paid for - but they usually won't do it, probably because it's too much of a hassle).
So, not hiring a dozen people on minimum wage seems to pay off more than what they lose from the non-payers. Interesting :cool:

Joe Fenton

16th August 2005, 21:31

The reports of this year being in a slump for movies are stupid. We haven't even had the big Thanksgiving/Christmas movie releases yet. Given the Harry Potter movie will be released in Nov, this year will probably be BETTER than last year.

SkoalWintergreen

16th August 2005, 21:34

I really think the sales slump this summer is blown way out of proportion. Video Games I feel have been around long enough that they wouldn't truly affect it, same with home theater/DVD, plus theater prices have been ridiculous for at least 5 years now.

IMHO it was just bound to happen with how well things were going. Hollywood can't grow forever, mostly I think that the buzz just felt like it dragged all spring, nothing this summer really caught my eye or said this is going to be awesome.

I used to see 8 movies a month in the theater, but after the slow start to the movie season I never felt like I got in the groove to keep going. Then after 3 or 4 terrible movies, I just felt like everything was going to suck so when I would usually pay for 'The Island' or 'Stealth' (these movies remind me of I-Robot) I skip b/c I am not really used to going to the theater right now.

Oki

16th August 2005, 23:48

Current movies are really boring, predictables and most movies relies on expensive stars, funny names, bad jokes or are remakes of old good movies. The plot is not important for Hollywood anymore, they put some guns, pretty ladies into censored scenes, some action, some jokes and we have another trash movie.

it's depressing.

zilog jones

17th August 2005, 00:13

Video Games I feel have been around long enough that they wouldn't truly affect it, same with home theater/DVD, plus theater prices have been ridiculous for at least 5 years now.
There hasn't been any particularly big game releases this year anyway, outside of the new console releases - the PSP in North America (and Europe in September) and the DS in Europe.

markrb

17th August 2005, 00:32

As for prices, the distributors charge cinema owners up to 50% (and sometimes more) of the admission price for supposed blockbusters ... I guess owners might have to rely on selling food, running ads etc., esp. if it is smaller independent theaters.
Actually your numbers are very low. Movies are sold on a sliding scale based on the number of weeks in release. For the first week or two cinemas get only 5% to 10%. It then scales to something like 60% after so many weeks.
However in this world of movies lasting only a month, maybe 3 if it's huge the cinemas make almost nothing on the movie itself. This is the reason for the $10 coke and the 20 minutes of commercials.
Some chains have been able to cut deals that they give a minimum even if the movie bombs for a larger percent of the take.

Mark

dwflo

17th August 2005, 08:12

My career was spent in the Motion Picture and Television Industry and I can tell you why movies are so bad. The studios are outsourcing, just like any other industry in this country.

In 1996, the Producers were getting scrutinized for their over budget productions, $40m was a big budget, in those days. The blame was always put on the trade unions that make up the majority of the work force. Sure, we made a large salary, over $20 an hour, overtime after 8 hours, meal penalty, double and triple time. When the average work day was 12 hours, 7 days a week. I would bring home more than $2,000.00 a week, after taxes. The upper echelon make 10 times that much in one day.

So in order to keep their costs down and their salaries up, the top brass looked for other ways of creative financing or tax breaks. They put out fealers and it didn't take long for Canada, Mexico, Austrailia, New Zealand, and a few other countries to respond with incintives. The result was, the moving of productions to those countries and taking work away from US studio employees.

Many of the Television productions are made in Canada, most are the Sci-Fi, Horror series, i.e. Stargate, Buffy, Angle, Andromida and all production on the Sci-Fi channel. Many motion pictures, are now shot in other countries, where labor costs are lower and tax breaks are in place. But the production costs are still climbing to the tune of $200m.

The bottom line is greed and corruption, my friends. I do not care what anybody else will say. I spent a lot of years working in those studios, and I was a member of one of the trade unions. I know what goes on in that business, and it is the same with the Recording industry. We used to call it the Micky Mouse Mafia, because that is what it is.

FYI, I do not intend to critisize any of the countries I listed, they are just conducting business.

Dave

Easy123

17th August 2005, 08:48

dwflo

17th August 2005, 09:26

The last Time I´ve been to a theater was a long time ago. I think I was watching "van Helsing". I paid 25€ for 2 Persons which was a total rip-off in my eyes. And they won´t see me again in theaters... All these people there that talk during movies and let their mobilphones ring. That´s not fun during watching... I prefer buying DVD´s when they come out and watch them in a "relaxed state" at home... :)

I refuse to pay for tickets, last time I attended a movie was "Passion of The Christ".
That was the first time in 10 years. I have no desire to be with inconsiderate movie goers or fatten the wallets of Hollywood.

Dave

shevegen

17th August 2005, 15:25

I occasionally go to theater but the movies are really bad.

90% isnt interesting me the slightest, and more crap comes along.

And I cant see anything is changing quality wise. It just plain bores visitors.
I think the prices havent increased a lot, the cost is too high, but the real problem are movies that are just plain crap.

PS: And while I like computer effects in plain computer animation movies (except this upcoming car one, i hate this without having seen anything except trailer for it), i really really hate computer effects in the blockbusters. Anyone that seen the animated hand in ... well this movie with the four "superheros" ... this was so badly animated, it looked as if there was an extra layer on top of the original picture. Awful.

holdar

17th August 2005, 17:37

dwflo

17th August 2005, 23:07

The box office slump is a myth. 2005 ticket sales are on track to be one of the top four years in ticket sales history (boxofficemojo.com).
Jan 1 – Aug 15 Comparison
2005 $5,676M
2004 $6,266M
2003 $5,898M
2002 $5,938M

We are just off the all time box peak achieved in 2004 with “Passion of Christ”($370M, Feb 25,2004), “Return Of The King” ($377M - Dec 17, 2003,) “Spiderman 2” ($373M - June 30, 2004), Incredibles ($261, Nov 5, 2004) and Shrek 2($436M, May 19, 2004). The second element is that the “Passion Of Christ” was not a Hollywood movie, it was a unique aberration, a faith based movie meant to promote a moral philosophy, not become a blockbuster. If you remove “Passion Of Christ” from the mix then 2005 is right in line with 2004. Then the only thing missing is LOTR 4 (hey were is “The Hobbit”?)

Sure box office receipts are an all time high, but no count of the number of tickets . The numbers you read are total sales, not number of tickets sold. They do not report those numbers, as it would expose the actual cost of going to a movie, it is called deception. If people cannot see through those receipt numbers, then they are fooling themselves.
Even though "Passion" was not a Hollywood release, they sure have taken a lot of credit, but when it comes to promoting a moral philosophy, Hollywood hides behind their solid 10ft doors, in their cosey suites. Believers in the "Christian Faiths" do not make it with Hollywoods endorsment. Look how long Mel Gibson took before he attempted such a task. He did it with his own money, as he knew he would not receive any support from the studios.
Most Faith base movies are privately financed, by the Evangelists organisations and private donations. For example the "Omega Code" series, was financed by Trinity Broadcasting, and some very wealthy Christian believers. If you viewed the movies, the production was very good, with a good cast, like Michael York, and good scrips. How it did in the box office was not that good. That was due to the limited release it was given...movie theaters under control of the studios.
It is not like the days of Cecile B. DeMill or John Huston, where morality was the center of their story. Today it is just the opposite, how immoral can you be, what kind of misbehavour can you condone, what wrongs can you teach!!! :angry: Then people wonder why the US has gone to Hell in a handbasket.

The movie industry is making a habit of crying all the way to the bank. While DVD sales were sending revenues sky high, industry flunkies (thank you Hilary Rosen) were crying that downloaded movies were costing them hundreds of millions. If 2005 proves anything it is that a hardcore group of movie goers will continue to buy tickets no matter how lame the movies are (Bewitched, Duce Bigelow, etc.) and how many commercials they have to sit through to see them. (local situation = $9 tickets + 30min of TV commercials)

You bet they are "crying all the way to the bank"! They got the public believing that it is true. Most people today are too lazy to read facts, they will take as true whatever is told them. As W.C. Fields said "There's a sucker born every minute".
There is so much distortion of truth in our society, that when it does come forward, noone believes it...such a shame!!! :(

Dave

theReal

18th August 2005, 00:53

I can tell you why movies are so bad. The studios are outsourcing, just like any other industry in this country. I don't think that a Canadian technician (from 1st assistant camera down to the easiest jobs)... is worse than their colleagues in the US.

IMO many movies are not good because they start with a bad idea.
Then maybe they are produced too quickly with the smallest possible staff.
The nationality of the people working on a movie doesn't make it good or bad.

Unfortunately not only the US movie industry is "crying all the way to the bank". All the different industries all over the world do it (some more, some less).

dwflo

18th August 2005, 02:41

I don't think that a Canadian technician (from 1st assistant camera down to the easiest jobs)... is worse than their colleagues in the US.

IMO many movies are not good because they start with a bad idea.
Then maybe they are produced too quickly with the smallest possible staff.
The nationality of the people working on a movie doesn't make it good or bad.

Unfortunately not only the US movie industry is "crying all the way to the bank". All the different industries all over the world do it (some more, some less).

I think, Canadian, Austrailian, British, you name it, studio employee is as compitent as their US counterpart. It is the studios themselves, who are putting people in a position they are not qualified for (it is defined as nepotism) and as a result are turning out an inferior product. If you have any concept of the placement of executives in the business, you might understand where I am coming from.

Dave

deuce2

18th August 2005, 05:45

It seems to me that everyone has a legitimate complaint which taken individually could be insignificant, but when taken as a whole add up to a dissapointing year. I usually rent my movies (DVDs), and have noticed that the selection is pretty bad for new releases (of course lagging the movie theatre scene but still indicative of the season). Also, my biggest gripe is the lack of original ideas; I can handle only so many remakes of TV shows, movies, and comic books. Add that mix in with the "formula" movies (same action, same violence, etc.) and it gets boring. I'm hoping Thanksgiving and Christmas will relieve the doldrums and that we'll get a batch of fresh, hopefully original, movies. Interesting and good to watch would be nice also. :cool:

Mug Funky

18th August 2005, 15:03

i saw an article about people ditching cinemas for DVDs. i can understand why.

when i saw Team America - World Police, the projector was out of focus, the centre and LFE channels were obviously blown and clipping like buggery, and everything was turned down way too low to compensate for the blown equipment.

it was so quiet people were afraid to laugh out loud (or was it the movie? nah, seriously, it's a top film), and the popcorn noise floor was too high as well...

it cost $14 to see it, and i didn't feel arrogant enough to ask for my money back.

the DVD cost $29 when it came out, and is a fair bit lower now (aussie dollars... don't know what that translates to in yanky bux).

hehe... all that, and it was a good movie. the bad movies are TOTALLY not worth what we pay.

however, the Astor cinema plays all kinds of movies (old, new, arty, actiony, cult, anime, etc), and it's $10 for a double-feature of 2 actually good movies. i guess that's the flip-side...

Halcy0n

19th August 2005, 00:17

Matinee is $5.50 USD here (WA state, US). I believe the normal price after 6:00 PM is $8.00. The only movie I've actually gone to a theater to see this summer was War of the Worlds, which was worth it btw. But there just haven't been anything else worth seeing before it came out on DVD.

sNNooPY

19th August 2005, 19:47

First of all, hello! I'm back (not that anyone knows me here but anyway) after a few years. :)

The situation in the movie segmet is bad, I admit. Box office is ruled by such unintelligent, non-original movies (eg. Dukes of Hazard). I'm a frequent movie visitor and few movies have impressed me lately.

About the prices...paying $10 for a ticket is too much, even in a huge We-Give-You-The-Ultimate-Movie-Expirience multiplex. Here in Zagreb, Croatia we have Cinestar (www.cinestar.hr), the biggest multiplex theater in this part of Europe (so they say), with 13 projection rooms, Dolby Digital EX & DTS speakers, and so on and so on...the point is, the ticket here is round 30-40KN, which is about $5.77. Highly acceptable (even for a Croatian standard).

dwflo

19th August 2005, 22:09

Welcome sNNooPy, glad to meet you. Nice to see opinoins from other parts of the world. Makes me feel good when we all agree on the same thing, American Movies suck, period IMO. Hasn't been a series of good ones since Star Wars.

Dave

sNNooPY

19th August 2005, 22:59

Makes me feel good when we all agree on the same thing, American Movies suck, period IMO. Hasn't been a series of good ones since Star Wars.
ohh...I wouldn't go that far. Ease up a little, there are VERY GOOD movies in Hollywood, unfortunately...lately (strange sentence :D :D ) it's just hard to FIND VERY GOOD movies, but I have faith. :rolleyes:

Doobie

19th August 2005, 23:13

The movies are still making tons of money in the theater. They're making more money that I would have exptect.

Movies are getting worse, aside from technical quality. A few Megaplex theaters are killing the numerous smaller theaters, meaning that for many people, going to a movie is less convenient. But, movie theaters also have a lot more competition for are entertainment time and money. In the past few years, satellite TV has exploded, that includes numerous on-demand movie channels. The sales of games has exploded. Rental movies have dramatically dropped in price, and rental by mail has exploded. Broadband connections have exploded (I don't even watch TV anymore, except as a sort of background thing, exluding one night of the sci-fi channel, you know what I'm talking about).

xDrJx

19th August 2005, 23:18

I hate going to theaters nowadays mainly because of the horrible german dubbing. Don't get me wrong, I like my language infact I love it, but IMHO german dubbing suxx big time and is taking most of the fun watching a movie away. A year ago cinestar showed new blockbuster in english, so I went frequently to theaters willing to pay 20 bucks without hesitation. But these days I have to wait for DVD releases to watch movies in their original language. And this doesn't even consider that the Hollywood output is going down the drain. Sorry Hollywood, no piracy to blame, just bad products. Welcome to capitalism!

dwflo

20th August 2005, 03:13

Sirber

20th August 2005, 03:15

Watch more anime and get used to subtitles :devil:

Joe Fenton

20th August 2005, 04:05

dwflo

20th August 2005, 05:13

I've never minded subtitles, but that's probably because I can read. :D Just kidding. I think subtitles don't bother people who can SPEED READ because you don't lose what's happening with the picture. People who rarely read books and don't speed read spend ALL their time reading the subtitles and lose what's happening elsewhere. Siber gave a great suggestion: practice! Get something you find interesting (like Japanese animation or whatever) and watch it. Read more books. You'll find after a while that subtitles aren't nearly as annoying as you once thought.

I read quit a bit, but as you get older the eyes don't fuction like they used to, it makes it difficult to concentrate on the action.
As far as anime, it does not interest me all that much. I did like the Final Fantisy series, the original Heavy Metal and the Spawn series. But most titles are boring to me and too childish for my tastes. now give me some Looney Toons, I can enjoy that. :p

Dave

sNNooPY

20th August 2005, 08:58

When I watch a movie in theater, I don't read the subtitles. It took a while to adjust to it (since my eye naturally goes down to read the subtitles).

Mug Funky

20th August 2005, 10:15

main problem with cinema and subtitles isn't speed reading IMO. it's faster for anybody to read words that are flashed than words from left to right (or right to left, top down etc) because eye rhythm doesn't come into play. so subs are easier to read than books or websites in a lot of cases.

however, there are 2 reasons that subs can be unpleasant and distracting in a cinema:

- poor translation (like "all your base are belong to us") and badly written translations. it's all about readibility. nobody wants to read a 3-line deep subtitle when 4 words will do. that strikes FUNimation off the list for starters... ADV aren't too bad. but in cinemas, there's less choice over who subtitles it. the colours are often bad (like some kind of XOR outline with white inside) and the translations can be terrible. this is more likely if the movie isn't long between release in its native country and in the current one.

- tall people's heads. this is the biggest problem IMHO. when i saw cowboy bebop at the astor, the place was packed, and there were quite a few inconsiderate people sitting on their legs so that nobody could see past them. in the end my friends and i had to sit in the isle to get a good view. now i'm pretty tall myself, so i can hardly complain too much, but it is a definite problem with subtitles in theatres which isn't present on DVD (i may be tall, but there are some absolute monsters who go to cinemas... i can't believe people can get so tall, let alone choose to sit in the row in front of me. freaky anime hairdos don't help either).

recently anime movies in australia (and probably elsewhere) are being released as dual dub and sub versions. go to ACMI, Nova or the Astor and you get subbed. go to a chain-run cinema and get a dub. that way everyone's happy. Spirited Away was like this, and Howl's Moving Castle will be when it comes out. i guess it's a matter of licensors providing both sets of prints...

xDrJx

20th August 2005, 12:03

These are all problems I'm willing to endure. I'm used to subbs since I "convinced" my honeygirl to watch more movies in english and she's having a better understanding with subbs. But the only subbed movies running in theaters around here are some independent and docu movies (Fahrenheit...). So if you wanna watch movies non-dubbed and/or subbed you are left with 2 choices: wait for the DVD or ... you know, the crappy alternative for dorks. I'm willing to pay in theaters, but found non where I could buy the products I like :(

Smile2

20th August 2005, 16:07

I thought sub is annoying when I can understood the Language they speaks, as well as I can read the subtitles.

mpucoder

20th August 2005, 16:34

Especially when the translation is bad.

Doom9

20th August 2005, 16:48

I hate going to theaters nowadays mainly because of the horrible german dubbing.I'd consider the fact that they're dubbing horrible. I'm perfectly fine with subs, even on HK flicks (subs are inheritently bad and really make me smile on many discs.. but in every subbed version I immediately stop that lip movement doesn't match the visual and that really bugs the hell out of me). I have two theaters pretty close but I'd be a much more frequent visitors if all movies were shown in the original version. But, a lot of people around here (small town and borders a considerable backwater area with lots of uneducated people that don't even speak a foreign language properly even though thaught in school) would probably feel the inverse way (I like to call them barbaric on the cultural side).

johnhamler1

21st August 2005, 11:38

my problem with the cinema is: high costs, popcorn eaters, air conditioning to cold (specially in the South USA).

12-13$ for a seat here in europe, when compared to 1-2$ in a cheap US cinema.

I can rent a DVD for 2 euro here in europe, why would I bother to pay 13$?

Soon, Hollywodd will go to china, and my fellow american friends will lose their job unless they are willing to go to china and be paid with noodles!
not only the cinema industry is in a bad shape for his workers, but many other business are strugling here in europe and in the USA, canada,...

Still we see actors being paid 20-30 millions$ for one movie...I wonder if in the futur , these actors will be paid more (or less)?

dwflo

21st August 2005, 12:14

Soon, Hollywodd will go to china, and my fellow american friends will lose their job unless they are willing to go to china and be paid with noodles!
not only the cinema industry is in a bad shape for his workers, but many other business are strugling here in europe and in the USA, canada,...

Still we see actors being paid 20-30 millions$ for one movie...I wonder if in the futur , these actors will be paid more (or less)?

I has already happened, read this post I made earlier in this thread.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=699932#post699932

Dave

johnhamler1

21st August 2005, 12:27

thanks Dave, can you be more specific about the numbers of employers who lost their job, # of companies who moved to eastern EU coutries, south america or Asia?.

dwflo

21st August 2005, 12:56

thanks Dave, can you be more specific about the numbers of employers who lost their job, # of companies who moved to eastern EU coutries, south america or Asia?.

The last numbers I was quoted was around 1,800 craftsmen and technicians were out of work. Many were working on the ouside. I can get more specifice numbers from my friends, who are still connected to the business.

As far as companies, there are none. The studios are the company, each remain in the US. The projects are produced outside the US, with non US workers. Most craftsmen are in unions, but the laborers are non union and the lowest paid.

Most of the EU countries have their own studios, they are given the work by the US studios. They are in control, the money comes back to them, with the EU studios getting a good part of it and it employs their people.

Examples are:
"Passion", Italy, with Italian workers and Actors. The sets were built in the Italian studios. This applies to all these feature films below.
"Big Country", Canada
All Star Wars films, England
"Tomb Raider", England
"Titanic", Mexico

There are many more recent productions, that have been "made" in other countries, but are considered "American Movies"

Dave

dwflo

21st August 2005, 13:12

I must correct myself with the numbers. The figure I gave of 1,800 out of 3,000 was in effect when I left the business in 2000. That figure has grown to 2,500 IATSE members out of work.
That does not reflect on the other trade unions. They consist of, The Directors Guild, The Writers Guild, Cinemtograhers and The Actors Guild.
The total including all of the trades could be 15,000±, just in the Hollywood area.

Dave

theReal

21st August 2005, 16:01

with the EU studios getting a good part of it and it employs their people. Can you tell me where these EU studios are, I'm going to apply there ;)

No, seriously - the dilemma you are describing is the same in almost any business (tv stations firing cameramen and instead giving camcorders to their journalists - I'm not kidding). Also the stations don't hire their own technicians anymore, they'll only hire free technicians because that way they'll always find somebody who will work for half the price or less (it's not so important that he's good at his job, is much more important that he's cheap...). No wonder not only today's movies, but also today's television is getting worse and worse...

holdar

21st August 2005, 18:30

I do not think Hollywood or “Movies” have gotten worse, its just that 2004 had so many great films (7) that their wasn’t much quality left in the pipeline. Well have to wait several years and see if there is another 2004 ($9,418M - all time box office gross leader) out there. Some people think DVD’s compete with theatres. I will sometimes rent a movie I would not go to the theatre to see, but I cant remember a movie I wish I had seen in a theatre after doing this.

I really like older Japanese (Sword Of Doom, Onibaba) and HK (Shaw Bros.) movies. I enjoy trying to figure out the subtitles, Shaw Bros. clearly used non-native English translators. Some of the best subbing I have seen are “fan subs” (LMF), if only they were interested in non-anime films.

The DVD Region system is anti-consumer. It seems to be in effect only to block US distribution of foreign films until Disney can license them.

Back to the present. I really enjoyed “War Of The Worlds”, both the movie and the angst surrounding it. At Metacritic.com the movie is rated everywhere from 100-0, and there are quite a few zeros. The movie has clearly touched a nerve, but I can’t quite figure out which nerve. It reminds me of when Leonard Maltin gave Alien a bad review because it frightened him (he couldn’t get to sleep afterward), then took ten years to admit it.

The original book by HG Wells was an indictment of British Imperialism. A straight forward update would be a warning about the US invading Iraq. Spielberg is too clever to allow any parallels between Americans throwing grenades at alien “Tripods” and Iraqi insurgents shooting RPGs at Humvees. His update does have some 9/11 references with “missing” posters, and things being turned to ash. I don’t want everything explained to me, just show me what happened and I’ll figure it out by myself. WOTW does this very well, there are enough things unexplained (left to your imagination) that it draws you in as the characters try to figure out what is happening to them.

Doobie

21st August 2005, 18:49

I do not think Hollywood or “Movies” have gotten worse,

Huh? You haven't found them getting more stupid over the years? And, When not stupid, then still intellectual vacuous as most big-budget picture have become. Do you think the last three Star Wars movies were as good as the first three? Then there's the problem of running out of new ideas. This kind of stuff can wear on a person.

There was a time when the people in Hollywood wanted to make good movies. Now, they just throw together some cr*p, and hope to sell tickets based on big names and pandering content.

sNNooPY

21st August 2005, 21:16

since you mentioned War of the Worlds... huh... oh boy...how can say this except: THE WORST MOVIE OF THE YEAR. I won't go into flame. It's my opinion. Worst Spielberg ever...

dwflo

21st August 2005, 21:35

Hollywood has run out of ideas, that is why so many remakes of classics and there will be more

Had a Cameraman tell me several years ago about his son who is a Screenwriter. Told me that he could not write his way out of a closet. Said he sits at computer all day, researching through old scripts to get ideas on stories. In other words, he was unable to come up with any ideas. He was not a story teller, depended on others stories, yet he is paid hundreds of dollars per hour, to write.

I saw this type of untalented people, make very good salaries, not based on their skills, but based on who they knew or were related to. I personaly know many well talented individuals who are unable to work because, they refuse to play by "certain rules".

Dave

Joe Fenton

21st August 2005, 21:55

Huh? You haven't found them getting more stupid over the years?

Nope. People look at thing like the AFS's top 100 films and say "See? Look at all the great older films." Never mind they are looking at 100 top films from almost 100 years, and many on the list are from the last 20 years. Hollywood has always turned out garbage. Remember the Ed Wood movies? Check out Plan 9 from Outer Space and tell me the new War of the Worlds is any more stupid. :cool:

Remember that nearly all movies and TV shows are stupid and awful. You rarely get more than one good smart movie per year. That's not any different in the past than now. The difference is you see all the old good movies on TV constantly being replayed. This tricks you into thinking ALL movies and TV was better in the past. It wasn't, you're just getting a big dose of the best of the past.

Doobie

21st August 2005, 22:33

Nope. People look at thing like the AFS's top 100 films and say "See? Look at all the great older films." Never mind they are looking at 100 top films from almost 100 years, and many on the list are from the last 20 years. Hollywood has always turned out garbage. Remember the Ed Wood movies? Check out Plan 9 from Outer Space and tell me the new War of the Worlds is any more stupid. :cool: [/qoute]

Plan 9 was a "B-movie" when it was made in the first place. War of the Worlds was based on a classic, had a big budget, and directed by Steven Spielberg. And, we're all a lot more space savvy now. Yet, WotW isn't much better than Plan 9. How about if you compare Plan 9 to Evil Alien Conquerers (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/evil_alien_conquerors/).

[quote]Remember that nearly all movies and TV shows are stupid and awful. You rarely get more than one good smart movie per year. That's not any different in the past than now. The difference is you see all the old good movies on TV constantly being replayed. This tricks you into thinking ALL movies and TV was better in the past. It wasn't, you're just getting a big dose of the best of the past.

There's truth to what you say. But, I think the attitude of Hollywood has changed over the years.

holdar

22nd August 2005, 00:31

There have been “crap” movies for as long as I can remember. There is no doubt 2004 was a better year than 2005, but I don’t know how to measure if the entire industry has fallen apart. A friend of mine thinks the 70’s were the “golden age” of film. I don’t know how anyone who saw “Black Caesar” and “Bacula” (both of which I enjoyed) could think that.

I think a lot of times we look back with “rose colored glasses” and only remember the good movies from past decades, I know I do. Now there are a lot of bottom of the barrel TV remakes (Bewitched, remember Dennis The Menace, etc.) and pointless filler, but if I really want to see a good film I always seem to be able to find one. Normally I just ignore movies I’m not interested in so its almost like they are not there.

The only Star Wars I really liked was the original, now retitled “A New Hope”. With “Revenge” it just seemed like George Lucas had backed himself into a corner, and had to come up with something to close the loop.

Revgen

22nd August 2005, 00:34

Even though "Passion" was not a Hollywood release, they sure have taken a lot of credit, but when it comes to promoting a moral philosophy, Hollywood hides behind their solid 10ft doors, in their cosey suites. Believers in the "Christian Faiths" do not make it with Hollywoods endorsment. Look how long Mel Gibson took before he attempted such a task. He did it with his own money, as he knew he would not receive any support from the studios.
Most Faith base movies are privately financed, by the Evangelists organisations and private donations. For example the "Omega Code" series, was financed by Trinity Broadcasting, and some very wealthy Christian believers. If you viewed the movies, the production was very good, with a good cast, like Michael York, and good scrips. How it did in the box office was not that good. That was due to the limited release it was given...movie theaters under control of the studios.
It is not like the days of Cecile B. DeMill or John Huston, where morality was the center of their story. Today it is just the opposite, how immoral can you be, what kind of misbehavour can you condone, what wrongs can you teach!!! :angry: Then people wonder why the US has gone to Hell in a handbasket.Dave

I personaly have a hard time believing that Hollywood studios are anti-religious. Hollywood studios are businesses and they will do anything to make a profit. Had studio execs knew that The Passion of the Christ would have made the millions of dollars that it did, they would have bankrolled it.

The truth is that these studios were clueless and didn't believe that a religious film being performed by actors speaking in Latin and Aramaic with english subtitles would make them any money.

dwflo

22nd August 2005, 02:42

I personaly have a hard time believing that Hollywood studios are anti-religious. Hollywood studios are businesses and they will do anything to make a profit. Had studio execs knew that The Passion of the Christ would have made the millions of dollars that it did, they would have bankrolled it.

The truth is that these studios were clueless and didn't believe that a religious film being performed by actors speaking in Latin and Aramaic with english subtitles would make them any money.

I wish that were the case, but it is not. Sure there is no money in faithbased films, that is due to the secular beliefs of many in this country. Hollywood executives do not follow Judeao/Christian beliefs. Many follow cult beliefs that are "anti-God" or that distort Biblical Teachings, and it reflects in what you see on the screen.

Dave

johnhamler1

22nd August 2005, 14:02

how do you make a script?

easy, check the box:
1.car pursuit(enter # of cars)
2: guns, machine guns (enter # of guns)
3:kiss? (enter 1 minimum)
4:romatntic, thriller, action, sex (please chose at least 2)
5:what actor, TC, JT,...(choose at least one)
6:wo win at the end?
7 how much money can you invest: 200M, 300M?
8 place?, on water, desert, mountain or sky/space?

after answering 20-40 questions, the hollywood computer come out with several scripts.

If you dont have access to their scripts' maker, you can pick up a movie, change the name in the stories, and put more or less cars, change the color of the sky,...

I have eared, that if they put a car pursuit, some gunshots, and one kiss...
they will cover their costs of making the movie!

few movies are really original, like MAtriix, ...I am waiting to see Island, war of the world,...too see if it sucks

so :script:

Mug Funky

22nd August 2005, 14:19

but in every subbed version I immediately stop that lip movement doesn't match the visual and that really bugs the hell out of me)

hehe... you get the same effect with bad or hastily done ADR. i see it all the time on TV series.

lots of uneducated people that don't even speak a foreign language properly even though thaught in school

hehe. i've heard that Germans pride themselves in language skills (Nietzsche said they're the translators of europe, i believe)... bilingual or multilingual is certainly not the norm in the rest of the world. the best i can do is understand basic spoken Japanese, but can't speak it myself to the level i understand it at. i also know very little Italian in spite of learning it all through school (teachers were bad, didn't keep our interest, or in fact demonstrate the need to learn a language at all), and i used to know about a hundred words of Yolngu-Matha, but i've forgotten most of it (it's an aboriginal language from Arnhem Land).

[edit]

@ Joe Fenton:

plan 9? that movie is genius!

humans don't recognise the existence of good-intentioned aliens, so they have no choice but to raise the dead and remotely control them!

... i mean what would you do in that situation? you'd do exactly the same thing, of course! :)

i've not seen war of the worlds yet. not tooo interested either. as for the Passion of the Christ, even less interest. trying to sell an old story with gore.

spoiler: Jesus dies.

xDrJx

22nd August 2005, 16:39

...i've heard that Germans pride themselves in language skills...

You've heard shit

...the best i can do is understand basic spoken Japanese...

now therefor I enver you

DAvenger

22nd August 2005, 16:57

holdar

22nd August 2005, 18:27

Its still not clear to me what standard we using to measure if movies are getting better or worse. Anyone think they can clear it up?

If you want to see more original ideas in movies go for Asian cinema, Korean movies in particular are quite cool.
I really enjoy Asian cinema with Korean film being the new kid on the block. There seems to be a current Japanese craze for all things Korean (after years of Korea bashing). But I find that Asian cinema can be extremely repetitive/imitative.

Examples: The first “Giant Robo” I saw was in “Super Dimensional Space Fortress, Macross” (1982), since then its spawn are legion. There must be several hundred pointless “Giant Robo” anime annoying the hell out of me.

The same with John Woo’s “Cop vs Hitman With Heart Of Gold”, its been done over and over (and over). As with older film I think most of what we see is the best of asian film, not just the average.

johnhamler1

23rd August 2005, 10:00

the best movies are the french one!!
if you speak french of course!

India makes more movies than the USA.

xDrJx

23rd August 2005, 13:33

the best movies are the french one!!
I guess it's a matter of taste. My girlfriend dies for this Amelie stuff but I prefer HK films and non-Blockbuster surprises

deuce2

24th August 2005, 03:57

@deuce2 : If you want to see more original ideas in movies go for Asian cinema, Korean movies in particular are quite cool (Oldboy, Memories of Murder and some others)

Yes, some of those are hard to watch due to the cultural differences and so on but I still like them (better to say some of them) more than most of U.S production.
Honestly, I've never considered Asian movies since all those terrible Kung-fu movies of the 70's. Perhaps I'll give it a try and pick up a few of em.

Mug Funky

24th August 2005, 05:13

Shinigami-Sama

24th August 2005, 10:18

you oughta see "kung faux". hip-hop dub over old kung-fu movies, with bad filters applied...

nah, asian moofies are pretty cool lately. one to watch out for is "AV", where a group of students in HK get a government grant to make a porn film.
lol
I heard of that once actualy..
sadly I realy wouldn't put is passed the HK gov to do that

but i'll agree movies are getting worse
but not just movies
all of the entertainment industry
anime is just pulling out of the slump where there wasn't much interesting
granted EVA and other huge animes had come out and we all went "wow *-* "
but now there are 3 good animes airing right now tat I cna say once I get a region free I"ll buy the dvds, I"m not paying an american company to analy violate a good series with shoddy dubs

and also even music is having a hard time now, I havn't heard any good new metal in years, and theres only so many slayer/dimu borgir songs out there

and tv has been doing psuedo remakes, hell earth-2 started airing again, that was a goos show, a bit before its time I think, very good story line, gene rodnberry was a god of entertainment, although the studios made him spin in his grave so fast he lit his coffin on fire with deep space 9

about the only good movies I've seen the past couple years were
Saw, Madagasgar and Sin City which I bought the DVD for

Mug Funky

24th August 2005, 10:51

Saw? that was written by a couple guys at RMIT uni here. they shot a few scenes, and pitched it to Australian Film Finance, but couldn't get funding... surprise surprise they go to America and it goes well. stupid government funding agencies. it's really a bit of an elitist boys club, producing such boring and hugely overrated films as Lantana and Somersault, but ignoring stuff that might actually help lift the film industry out of the hole it's in. grrr.

the reason there's so much ...average... anime is because it's popular now - everything is getting licensed because it's less of a risk than it used to be. it used to be only the really good stuff gets licensed, but now absolutely everything does (that Inuyasha show NEVER ENDS! man, i was sick of that catgirl-dogboy-bishie after about 20 mins).

once I get a region free I"ll buy the dvds

are region-free players that hard to get? dang. it's hard to believe, considering here it's nigh-on impossible to find a region-locked player... it's all multi-format, multi-zone, plays-everything here.

theReal

24th August 2005, 18:25

Honestly, I've never considered Asian movies since all those terrible Kung-fu movies of the 70's. Perhaps I'll give it a try and pick up a few of em.Check out movies by Wong Kar Wai. No Kung-Fu at all (at least not in the two that I've seen: Fallen Angels and Chungking Express)

Shinigami-Sama

24th August 2005, 22:30

Saw? that was written by a couple guys at RMIT uni here. they shot a few scenes, and pitched it to Australian Film Finance, but couldn't get funding... surprise surprise they go to America and it goes well. stupid government funding agencies. it's really a bit of an elitist boys club, producing such boring and hugely overrated films as Lantana and Somersault, but ignoring stuff that might actually help lift the film industry out of the hole it's in. grrr.

the reason there's so much ...average... anime is because it's popular now - everything is getting licensed because it's less of a risk than it used to be. it used to be only the really good stuff gets licensed, but now absolutely everything does (that Inuyasha show NEVER ENDS! man, i was sick of that catgirl-dogboy-bishie after about 20 mins).

are region-free players that hard to get? dang. it's hard to believe, considering here it's nigh-on impossible to find a region-locked player... it's all multi-format, multi-zone, plays-everything here.
yeah inuyasha has I think 830eps, it just ended last dec over in Japan thank god
a big IY freack I know was all upset about, i has no char devolopment or changes in hte story line
wander around, fight demon for shard thingy, fight with eachother, help ppl, fight eachother repeat

as for saw sweet

as for the region-free, I havn't seen any, but I Live in Western Canada so yeah, and who said I was talking about licansed anime Mug, I usualy stay away from it -shudder- dubs ><

Joe Fenton

25th August 2005, 01:28

as for the Passion of the Christ, even less interest. trying to sell an old story with gore.

spoiler: Jesus dies.

Damn! And I was going to go see that... but now you've ruined it! :angry: :D

Asian movies are pretty cool. Japanese live-action TV is about 30 years behind American live-action TV. I swear, watch a brand new Japanese LA show and you'll SWEAR it was made in the 70's. I get bad Starsky and Hutch flashbacks. :D

Mug Funky

25th August 2005, 04:58

Check out movies by Wong Kar Wai.

pretty good. i think he jumped the shark with 2046 though - really beautiful to watch, but otherwise it's a bit... slow. goes a bit too long.

i'd like to check out some of his older stuff... dammit, i should know about these movies, but don't get enough time to watch anything these days :(

oh, there's an interesting Korean movie i saw the other day called Some - kinda a cop show thriller with weird deja-vu stuff thrown in. very cute female lead, too.

deuce2

25th August 2005, 06:36

Check out movies by Wong Kar Wai. No Kung-Fu at all (at least not in the two that I've seen: Fallen Angels and Chungking Express)

Thanks, I'll try to see what I can scare up; maybe this weekend. BTW I don't think all of the Kung-Fu sucked (Bruce Lee was pretty good!), but the majority of them were pretty bad, especially the english dubbing.

Sirber

25th August 2005, 17:07

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/25/1439214&from=rss

sNNooPY

25th August 2005, 19:28

"But many movie executives and industry experts are beginning to conclude that something more fundamental is at work: too many Hollywood movies these days, they say, just are not good enough."
oh look! gray matter started to work at last!

dwflo

26th August 2005, 02:22

oh look! gray matter started to work at last!

We shall see if that gray matter wil turn anything but brown...if you know what I mean!

Neo Neko

26th August 2005, 06:34

yeah inuyasha has I think 830eps, it just ended last dec over in Japan thank god
a big IY freack I know was all upset about, i has no char devolopment or changes in hte story line
wander around, fight demon for shard thingy, fight with eachother, help ppl, fight eachother repeat

Apparently you have never watched the show much or I am just to much a fan of Rumiko. There are plenty of changes to the storyline. But yes getting the jewel shards back is an overriding theme. There has been plenty of character development as well. Just a bit slower than most are used to. So most don't notice it. The episodes CN is up to now have progressed a long way. Kagome and inuyasha clearly have feelings for eachother. Songo and Miroku have the hots for eachother as well. Though Miroku is 180 of inuyasha. Way more forward. Seshomaru is overcoming his hate of humanity and his brother while learning to accept the tenseiga. Everyone hates naraku. Kikyo has overcome her hate of inuyasha and is biding her time trying to stop naraku.

If you want a show with little or no character development and monotonous story line I think Dragonball/Pokemon are still the standards and favorites. But I suppose there are people who are partial to those two.

One thing I can say against Rumiko is that all of her works tend to be about improbable and strained romantic relationships. Ranma 1/2, Lum, and Inuyasha all being prime examples. So if that is not your sort of thing then you are not gonna like any of them. But if it is or you can get past it they are all quite good shows. I know no network will ever pick up Ranma over here. And I know why. And it's rather unfortunate. But someone should really pick up Lum. It is at least 300/400 episodes long itself. ;)

Shinigami-Sama

26th August 2005, 06:37

in the I think 50-75 eps I watched I saw about as much char devolpment as two dead people, but then again I don't much like super long series

Mug Funky

26th August 2005, 06:54

I know no network will ever pick up Ranma over here.

sad... really sad. the idea behind that show is extremely funny. you could almost have the same show where ranma remains male the whole time, but the characters are all just a little gayer :). of course it'd be nowhere near as interesting.

and if no american network picks it up, it certainly wont be shown here - free-to-air networks don't like anime (even SBS, but they play it occasionally, like Eva and Bubblegum Crisis 2040, and there's a "month of anime" coming up), and the pay-TV networks are all american imports.

perhaps one thing that's wrong with the movie/entertainment industry is just a general lack of risk-taking, lack of creativity, and tendency to only ever buy boring, poor, but slickly made american stuff. i swear, if i see another CSI variant... (CSI New Zealand...)

also, another thing you could say against rumiko is she doesn't know how to wrap up a series. talk about milking it for all it's worth!

johnhamler1

26th August 2005, 16:25

the problem is: to much choice....

long time ago, we were happy to see jame bond...now, who cares!!!
we are a population of consumers.we dont appreciate what we have .

I was so happy with my 45when i was kid.and my parents was listening 33.
remember the good time??? star war, superman, james bond, ET,

harrypotter? let me get out of here..........

...

Sirber

26th August 2005, 16:57

The last great movie I watched was The Grudge. Others.... just don't have it :)

Joe Fenton

27th August 2005, 05:33

The Grudge was a bad remake of a awesome Japanese horror flick, Juon. Go watch the original.

Takahashi actually did pretty good with relationships... you should read some other mangas like Love Hina. Japanese culture is just different. You need to learn a little about it before you can fully appreciate the manga/anime/movies.

Sometimes, the American translations lose some of the humor. For example, in Takahashi's great Urusei Yatsura (Lum to most Americans who watch anime) when we are first introduced to Sakura, she tells them of the great mortgage she got on the shrine. She'll have it paid off in 19 and a half years. No one ever picks up on the joke here. Japanese shrines are torn down and rebuilt every twenty years to keep them in good shape. See? Sakura will finish paying off the mortgage just in time to have the shrine torn down and rebuilt, requiring another mortgage.