PgcEdit, PgcDemux and forced subpic streams

[CoNS]

I have a DVD with a forced subpic stream, which I want to remove.

The time and space consuming way is to run it through DVDShrink in Full disc backup mode with no compression, deselecting the subpic stream in question. This method works. I'm sure the VOB Extras function in IfoEdit will be able to do it, too.

However, in order to save time and space I tried to edit out the forced subpic stream in PgcEdit instead. But unfortunately without any luck... :(

This is what I did: I opened the DVD in PgcEdit 0.6.0 and went to the PGC Editor window. I clicked on the subpic stream and disabled it. I then corrected the number of streams in the current domain stream attributes window (using the macro in PgcEdit). So, everything looked fine in PgcEdit when I saved it: No subtitle streams available. But when I played the disc in MPC and WinDVD, the forced subtitles were still there?!

Did I do anything wrong in the process? Or maybe it just can't be done without editing the .vob files? Or it could be a bug in PgcEdit?

Another weird thing with this disc: In MPC, WinDVD and PgcEdit there seems to be only one subpic stream. But when I run it through PgcDemux and demuxes all subtitle streams, it outputs two streams?!

[mpucoder]

Or maybe it just can't be done without editing the .vob files?
Correct - forced subs in stream 20 will display even if no subs are selected or listed in the ifo. They can be disabled on most players by using the SetSTN command to set subs to stream 62 or 63 (depending on the player - something in the specs that got really messed up in translation).
Another weird thing with this disc: In MPC, WinDVD and PgcEdit there seems to be only one subpic stream. But when I run it through PgcDemux and demuxes all subtitle streams, it outputs two streams?!
Players show streams as you see in VTS_MAT, that is the number of languages. But with 16:9 there can be as many as 3 encoded streams per language (as seen in the PGC).

[CoNS]

Thx very much for clarifying, mpucoder.Players show streams as you see in VTS_MAT, that is the number of languages. But with 16:9 there can be as many as 3 encoded streams per language (as seen in the PGC).But PgcEdit's PGC Editor window shows only one stream, too, like the software players?

If there're more than one encoded stream per language (per PGC), how are the various streams used? What's the purpose of the "extra" streams?

[mpucoder]

Different display modes. 16:9 can be shown 3 ways, widescreen, pan/scan, and letterboxed. Each display mode can have its own subs, as subs are not resized with the video.

[r0lZ]

But PgcEdit's PGC Editor window shows only one stream, too, like the software players?In the domain stream attributes (VTS_MAT), you will normally see one subpic per language. It's the definition of the language code and type, so that you can see what language you select with the remote.
In the PGC, there are 4 stream numbers per language. One is used for 4:3 video, and the 3 others for 16:9 video, as explained by mpucoder. Of course, on some DVDs, only one stream is used for all display modes. In the PGC, it's the stream indexes (which are equivalent to the subpic stream IDs) in the VOB that are defined.

[r0lZ]

Correct - forced subs in stream 20 will display even if no subs are selected or listed in the ifo. They can be disabled on most players by using the SetSTN command to set subs to stream 62 or 63 (depending on the player - something in the specs that got really messed up in translation).Could you be more precise? What is this translation problem? Does it mean that we cannot thrust the SetSTN commend when using a subpic value of 62 or 63?
Normally, 63 is used to select and display the forced subpic, and 62 to deselect and turn off all subpics, no?

[mpucoder]

Normally, yes. But some players don't act right.

[frank]

I've never seen this SetSTN $3F $3E cmds in my collection (PAL 2).

But there are some DVDs with subs that inlude forced information. The sub stream is disabled but the forced parts are displayed. What stream information does it control?

[m1ckran]

I've never seen this SetSTN $3F $3E cmds in my collection (PAL 2).

But there are some DVDs with subs that inlude forced information. The sub stream is disabled but the forced parts are displayed. What stream information does it control?

I'd also like to add my plea for help on this one.

Unless I'm wrong, we're talking about films like Lord of the Rings and Stargate DC which selectively dip into a disabled substream to display only particular lines of dialogue (for translations), whereas pictures like Star Wars need a special "forced" substream to be permanently selected by SETSTN or the remote control.

The problem with the Star Wars approach is that the forced subs are deselected when you use the player's "resume" mode to continue viewing after stopping part-way through the film. Is it possible to convert the Star Wars style of forced subs to the Stargate style?

[m1ckran]

@frank
:confused:
Well... Looks like nobody knows the answer to this. Never mind.

[frank]

Seams I must do myself some investigations.