H.264 AVC on PSP!!! [Archive]

giandrea

21st July 2005, 19:40

Interesting, but not really my cup of tea. Try re-encoding a DVD to that resolution without artefacts.

I don't see the problem, really...
480x272 is a 16:9 resolution, and compressing with AVC would not create many artefacts if you set a resonable bitrate. If you have a 512 MB MemoryStick you can go up to 600 kbps (Video+Audio) for a 2 hours movie. More than sufficient.

Doom9

21st July 2005, 19:57

seeing is believing ;)

Revgen

21st July 2005, 20:13

Interesting, but not really my cup of tea. Try re-encoding a DVD to that resolution without artefacts.

PSP's are small, the low resolution shouldn't be a problem.

Latexxx

22nd July 2005, 09:57

seeing is believing ;)
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050721/scei05.jpg

bond

22nd July 2005, 10:13

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20050721/scei05.jpgwell its known for a long time already that the psp can decode avc from umd discs, so its no news at all that avc handling exists

whats the special thing discussed in this thread imho is that there might be the possibility to play avc from memory stick, which is a huge difference, as than you could produce your own high quality movies yourself (if sony supports the .mp4 container too with avc, which isnt sure at all. and if i look at that for aac playback the psp needs proprieatary extensions to .mp4 for the playback...)

Doom9

22nd July 2005, 10:14

not a screenshot.. the actual firmware available on an actual PSP you can buy in a store ;)
And then of course there's still the issue of having to buy Sony's proprietary stick where the rest of the world uses SD/MMC or CF.

billou2000

22nd July 2005, 14:32

Team xecuter announced a kit (http://teamxecuter.entryhost.com/) called PSPX mass storage that plugs itself into the memory stick socket of the PSP and then allows you to connect SD/CF/USB storage that would be recognised by the PSP... .the usb drive thing might change the PSP into a PSNotSoP but if it can be done then... ;) if it works then that's very good thing!

pspvideo9

23rd July 2005, 20:33

With the coming 2.0 firmware, Sony will now allow the playback of AVC files in Sony's "Memory Stick Video Format" (MSVF). This is the same format that Sony uses for its MPEG-2 SP videos that are playable on the current versions (1.00/1.50/1.51/1.52) of the PSP Firmware.

What this means is that the AVC video will likely be stored in Sony's non-compliant MP4 container and _probably_ support AAC for audio. Also it seems that AVC videos must also follow a similar stupid naming convention for them to show up in the PSP menu(10xANV01 subdirectory, MAQxxxxx.MP4).

If all that is not bad enough, according to someone (http://psp.ign.com/articles/636/636076p1.html) who has seen the MSVF (http://www.memorystick.org/eng/aboutms/video.html) specs, the MSVF-AVC video is only supposed to support a max resolution of 320x240. Whether or not larger resolutions will be possible with header hacks has yet to be seen. So native resolutions still may not be possible

Finally, we should note that this is NOT the format used for UMD videos and cut scenes in PSP games. That format is known as the PSP Movie Format (http://www.pspvideo9.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=415) (PSMF) which uses AVC for video and ATRAC3 for audio in a MPEG-2 PS container.

Doom9

23rd July 2005, 20:57

so it sounds just as #¬¬°§@# as it is now with ASP. Until somebody writes a third party player that works with standard MP4 files I find that "video support" an insult.

/Cz-! CAn_eSZ[]

24th July 2005, 09:48

The UMD uses AVC muxed into mpeg-2 ps container with some unkown headers simliar to 'PMF' which is used for for video clips found in UMD games, The file type is .mps which is not known and has a resolution of 720x480 which then gets downmixed to pspscreen rez,
I recall the audio type found in .mps being atrac3 I think...

bond

24th July 2005, 10:10

']The UMD uses AVC muxed into mpeg-2 ps container
I recall the audio type found in .mps being atrac3 I think...thats the .pmf format (not sure if it will be used in umd)
sony loves to bastardize standard formats...

plonk420

24th July 2005, 18:49

Latexxx

24th July 2005, 20:35

<pasted from another thread>

the HUGE downside is 1.51, 1.52, 2.0 will be patched against running homebrew (as well as piracy). homebrew, specifically, that plays MODs (/XMs/S3Ms/ITs/etc), OGG Vorbis, PSFs, etc among many, many other programs (NES, SNES, MAME emulators, TXT viewers, and possibly Demoscene demos)

Lo and behold!

transient_analysis

25th July 2005, 15:52

the PSP has such a great potential when you can mod it to do what you want..

It's annoying that Sony is trying to make it difficult for the end user to use their product the way they see fit (ie the latest games won't work unless you have the latest firmware update, which is difficult to do if the device is modded for homebrew).

Playing video from a memory stick is alright..

however, being able to play live video streams (wired or wireless) would be AWESOME. I can think of alot of reasons why a PSP wireless video terminal would be worth while.

Blue_MiSfit

26th July 2005, 02:57

thats the .pmf format (not sure if it will be used in umd)
sony loves to bastardize standard formats...

Precisely my problem with Sony, all their proprietary bastardized standerds!! They have decent hardware usually, but its so crippled by being limited to their in house development. If only they had a clue about all the cool things that open source can provide.

I suppose they're a corporation that's out to make money, as all ultimately are. Unavoidable.

/Cz-! CAn_eSZ[]

26th July 2005, 05:15

thats the .pmf format (not sure if it will be used in umd)
sony loves to bastardize standard formats...

Avc on UMD Games is in 'PMF' and AVC on UMD is 'MPS' where the UMD AVC is much better quality such as bigger rez/bitrate and SP on ms is 'MP4'

Ishan

26th July 2005, 10:01

I'm not that excited about h264 support on the PSP, because Sony already stated it'll only be 320x240.
They are just putting limitation everywhere to sell a lot of their UMD video crap... (I don't even understand how people can buy such a crappy product @ the same price of a DVD, and don't say to me it's portable balbla cause portable dvd player are ultra cheap these days...)

GraDy

26th July 2005, 10:20

Hopefully someone will come up with a hacked firmware. If you could play 480xXXX encodes on a PSP, I would definately buy it! If Sony only realized the potential of the PSP! I can't see why they try to stop it, it would only make it popular with more people. But I guess they are paranoid about 13-yearolds cpying eachothers games or something....

SeeMoreDigital

26th July 2005, 10:33

Yes... It seems totally absurd to me to limit MPEG-4/AVC (and even MPEG-4/SP/ASP) encoding/decoding to just 320x240 pixels :(

ArcticFox

27th July 2005, 10:13

Any ideas on what encoder outputs the correct format for PSP?

Ive got my jap import psp on its way and v2.0 firmware is out, id love to be able to use H264 on it.

Longinus

27th July 2005, 22:40

I just installed the 2.0 firmware...
I'll try some videos, but it would be nice if someone could help me out with some samples...

RnSK

30th July 2005, 23:14

this is going to fall on "deaf ears" as they say, but I'll give it a shot :)

Anamorphic 320x240 video on the PSP is superior to the "hacked" resolutions.

In fact, with the 2.0 firmware, you see this quite obviously, as in the non-scaled mode, the video takes up almost the whole screen; putting the PSP into "Normal" mode barely stretches it at all.

I mention this because months ago, there was some debate internally in my camp about just this very fact, that enabling hacked video was actually *reducing* overall quality because we were reducing the resolution "in both dimensions."

Pictures were made, math was thrown around and in the end, the wrong side won.

Basically, when the hardware plays back the video, and the source that was encoded from is anamorphic, thus being 1:1 (no artificial "squishing") the video resolution onscreen, pre-stretching, is 448x240 pixels.

Look at that again.

So with your typical 16:9 "dvd rip", there is no hacked resolution that can approach this, there are simply more pixels being used for display.

More important than Sony's Memorystick AVC implementation (and it ain't that great; 446MB for a 2-hour movie @ 384kbps) in the codec is the fact that that format fully supports anamorphic video.

While it could be argued that "full resolution" video would be "better" the fact remains that the current "limited"* video isn't as inadquate as it would appear at first glance.

Try it for yourself; do the "math" as it were.

*this limitation is not part of the great UMD Conspiracy...sorry. It is for interoperability with upcoming sony and 3rd party hardware products.

pspvideo9

1st August 2005, 00:37

Anamorphic 320x240 is definitely better than using header hacked resolution, its not very hard to see that.

What exactly was the point of your earlier debate? Was their even Aspect Ratio support with MP4 SP files? If not, how could either side "win"?

Your comparison seems to be a bit off. You seem to be comparing 448x240 (1.85:1) to 368x204 (16:9).

We think you meant to say that 320x240 16:9 anamorphic ends up equaling 426x240 which obviously is a far better resolution than 368x208.

Its undeniable that native resolution support would be better. There are still unused pixels both vertically and horizontally and the scaler in the PSP isn't the greatest.

Finally, interoperability does not mean that they had to drop support for other stuff. The PSP could easily support more framerates and resolutions up to 480x272, while still being interoperable with Sony's MSVF.

Longinus

3rd August 2005, 07:52

pspvideo9, I heard you guys createad a playable h264 video, and needed donations to help out. I can't donate, but I would gladly help testing some videos if you guys need more people with 2.0 firmware... :)

/Cz-! CAn_eSZ[]

6th August 2005, 08:47

A new version of pspvideo9 is out with AVC support and I had a quick look and it turns out it uses 'x264' which I guees we all thought it would, I am loooking foward to a new verison of nero with High profile and AVC psp support... =)

MuTeK

10th August 2005, 10:34

AVC clips for Sony PSP:

Download clip 1 (http://www.elecard.biz/clips/mp4/PSP/Elecard_PSP_AVC_Demo1.mp4), 2 (http://www.elecard.biz/clips/mp4/PSP/Elecard_PSP_AVC_Demo2.mp4), 3 (http://www.elecard.biz/clips/mp4/PSP/Elecard_PSP_AVC_Demo3.mp4), 4 (http://www.elecard.biz/clips/mp4/PSP/Elecard_PSP_AVC_Demo4.mp4)

Video: AVC/Main Profile, 368x208 @30fps
Audio: AAC

SeeMoreDigital

10th August 2005, 11:34

MuTeK

11th August 2005, 08:48

http://www.elecard.com/download/psp_avc_clips.php

SeeMoreDigital

11th August 2005, 08:58

Interesting.... all those Elecard "square pixel" clips are 368 pixels wide, not 340....

Can anybody confirm the (current) "top out" pixel limit of the PSP?

Cheers

Ishan

11th August 2005, 10:40

368x208 is a valid resolution, you can use any resolution as long as you dont go over 320x240 pixels. All resolution other than 320x240 are stretched to 16/9 and psp don't support AR flag.
The integrated video player is just plain crap if you want my opinion :)

things I found :
- video must be MPEG4 SP (for all firmware) or AVC (2.0 FW only, don't know if there's limitation on the AVC feature usable here)
- video can be any resolution as long as you don't go over 320x240= 76800 pixels
- all resolution other than 320x240 are treated as 16/9 (full stretch)
- bitrate can be WAY higher than the dumb 768kbps limit, I've done several clip @2 or 3 mbps with NO problems.

I gotta have to point that out to nero guys, they follow the "sony rules" a bit to tightly. Nero digital could be the best psp encoder out there if it was not that limited...

SeeMoreDigital

11th August 2005, 11:25

Thanks for confirming this for me Ishan :)

I can't say this device will ever be on my Xmas list.

Cheers

bond

11th August 2005, 12:26

http://www.elecard.com/download/psp_avc_clips.phpare these files normal .mp4 files? or are some extensions to the .mp4 format necessary to make the file play on the psp, as its the case with part2 video .mp4 files?

i saw that these avc files also include these strange uuid atoms. are these necessary with avc too?

how does pspvideo create the playable avc mp4 files? do the created files also have these uuid atoms?
edit: ok they encode with mencoder (x264) to raw .264 and than remux with mp4box to .mp4, which means that the resulting .mp4 definitely doesnt have any fancy sony-extensions, which means too that no proprieatary extensions are necessary to play avc-in-mp4 on the psp (assuming that pspvideo9 produces playable avc-in-mp4 files :D )

qyqgpower

11th August 2005, 12:32

- all resolution other than 320x240 are treated as 16/9 (full stretch)

It will only happen on MPEG4 SP File and you can't change the display mode. none native resolution AVC file will be normally full stretch on PSP but all the modes (original, zoom, normal) are working. for example, a 368*208 AVC MP4 on PSP and you select original mode, you'll get a small picture frame in the whole PSP screen.

Latexxx

11th August 2005, 13:19

edit: ok they encode with mencoder (x264) to raw .264 and than remux with mp4box to .mp4, which means that the resulting .mp4 definitely doesnt have any fancy sony-extensions, which means too that no proprieatary extensions are necessary to play avc-in-mp4 on the psp (assuming that pspvideo9 produces playable avc-in-mp4 files :D )
Having muxed they use a tool called atomchanger (or something) to fork the files.

bond

11th August 2005, 13:29

Having muxed they use a tool called atomchanger (or something) to fork the files.thanks!

SeeMoreDigital

11th August 2005, 13:47

Having muxed they use a tool called atomchanger (or something) to fork the files.Yep... "that boy is right" ;)

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8784/pspvideo9avcfileslist5ex.png

Cheers

Scarpad

11th August 2005, 14:45

PSP Video 9 AVC's GUI makes generating (AVC+AAC in) .MP4 encodes very simple....

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1264/setuppage8yj.jpg

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/753/profiles0ep.jpg

And should you want to generate encodes for use with other media players, it's even possible to over-ride the default 320x240 resolution....

Shame it's not possible to add AR signalling though!

Cheers

How did you get that resolution my version does'nt do anything above 320

I agree the device is hemmed in quite a bit, the Low bitrate really cripples what the screen is capable of (For that see UMD Movies) I'm trying to get the best image but suspect I may move on to a dedicated Meadia player that will let me use Divx/Xvid. Strongly looking at the Archos AV500 it has a 480x272 screen like the PSP but you'll be able to encode at native res. Or perhaps the New Creative Zen coming out that has a 640x480 screen.

SeeMoreDigital

11th August 2005, 15:05

How did you get that resolution my version does'nt do anything above 320.You can enter your required settings "manually" in each of the boxes ;)

Cheers

Scarpad

11th August 2005, 15:31

But i don't think it'll actually do what your entering...

SeeMoreDigital

11th August 2005, 15:47

But i don't think it'll actually do what your entering...I did for me... I even created a couple of my own "Profiles" at 720x576 with different audio and video bit-rates.

When the .MP4 files were played in ShowTime 2 player, they were indeed 720x576... but sadly, they did not include any AR signalling :(

Cheers

Chainmax

11th August 2005, 15:57

Will this new firmware allow for Ogg audio? Somewhat recent listening tests show Ogg Vorbis aoTuVb4 to be pretty much the best audio codec at <128kbps bitrates. Also, If I make a 1:1 320x240 encode and then use MKVToolnix to mux video and audio using a 16:9 aspect ratio then the PSP wouldn't need to stretch the image, right?

Scarpad

11th August 2005, 16:02

I did for me... I even created a couple of my own "Profiles" at 720x576 with different audio and video bit-rates.

When the .MP4 files were played in ShowTime 2 player, they were indeed 720x576... but sadly, they did not include any AR signalling :(

Cheers

I'll have to try the resolution I changed the Bitrate to 1500 kbps but it still seems to be encoding at no more than 368 kbps

MuTeK

12th August 2005, 06:13

Bond
Yes, you are right, this is the Mp4 file format but with the special Sony PSP extension. For preparing such PSP-compatible files you may use option "For Sony PSP" of our multiplexer.

Here http://www.elecard.com/download/psp_avc_clips.php you can see clips prepared for the PSP playback.

As to strange atoms, I have to ask muxer's developer Lupus_aka_Den.

SeeMoreDigital
As to "PSP Video 9 AVC" I can't prepare any streams using this program because it crashes constantly :mad:

Lupus_aka_Den

12th August 2005, 07:17

... i saw that these avc files also include these strange uuid atoms. are these necessary with avc too?
As i understand Sony PSP need these atoms. Sony PSP compatiblу stream contain 4 uuid atoms:
first uuid hold audio and video informations, such as: video, audio type (avc1, mp4v, mp4a), framerate, bitrate, width and height.
second and third atoms is constans. They simular for each stream, and they must placed at end of trak atom
last uuid atom contain converter name, file name (Sony PSP show it instead m4vXXXX.mp4 name) and date then this stream was create
Without these atoms SonyPSP show "unsupported data" or "corrupt data"

how does pspvideo create the playable avc mp4 files? do the created files also have these uuid atoms?

I don't now. I can't create AVC stream using PSP Viseo 9. But then i create files with MPEG-4 these atoms is present.

SeeMoreDigital

12th August 2005, 10:28

... I can't create AVC stream using PSP Viseo 9. But then i create files with MPEG-4 these atoms is present.... As to "PSP Video 9 AVC" I can't prepare any streams using this program because it crashes constantly Specially for you guys..... Here's one (at 720x576) I made earlier....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/seemoredigital/Test_Files/PSPVideo9_Test01.7z

Cheers

azsd

12th August 2005, 10:43

Hi MuTek,

Where can I get your multiplexer with "For Sony PSP" option?
Is it include of elecard oneclick encoder?

thx

AnimeTheme

12th August 2005, 19:44

I have been playing around with x264 CLI (using MeGUI) to encode some AVC MP4 videos for testing on PSP (the final movies are patched with the ATOM Changer in PSP Video 9 to make them play on PSP). These "patched" x264-encoded movies do play on PSP. However, there is one strange problem...

The last 2 frames just BEFORE an I frame are NEVER displayed, resulting in observable frame skips. This problem occurs on every single video I have tried (using x264), and I use the default settings for MeGUI (1 reference frame, no b frame). I have tried various encoding settings (use more than 1 reference frame, use b frames, adaptive/pyramid on/off, etc), but the problem still presists (the problem becomes even more "complicated" when b frames are used). Note that AVC videos encoded in PSP Video 9 have the same problem (since their encoders are also x264-based). Also note that these videos play absolutely fine on PC, so this must be a PSP (and x264) specific issue.

In terms of AVC specs, is there anything special regarding that last 2 (P) frames just before an I frame that can explain the cause of the problem? Anyone knows how to solve this problem?

In the mean time, I just use a large max key frame interval value (999) so that I frame is avoided when possible. But obviously this isn't solving the problem, since you can't completely drop I frames.

http://www.elecard.com/download/psp_avc_clips.php

I have downloaded your clips, and your clips are NOT suffering from the above mentioned problem. Is there anything special regarding the H.264/AVC encoder/multiplexer you use? Can you share any tips on how you can get rid of the problem on your clips?

bond

12th August 2005, 19:49

As i understand Sony PSP need these atoms. Sony PSP compatiblу stream contain 4 uuid atoms:
first uuid hold audio and video informations, such as: video, audio type (avc1, mp4v, mp4a), framerate, bitrate, width and height.
second and third atoms is constans. They simular for each stream, and they must placed at end of trak atom
last uuid atom contain converter name, file name (Sony PSP show it instead m4vXXXX.mp4 name) and date then this stream was create
Without these atoms SonyPSP show "unsupported data" or "corrupt data"thx for the info!

evil sony, most of this info is stored in standard .mp4 files anyways by default (video/audiotype, framerate, bitrate, width, height, creationdate), no need to store it twice in private atoms too imho...